Participants: Lincoln Steed. (Host), Greg Hamilton
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000359B
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00:05 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:06 Before the break with guest Greg Hamilton, 00:09 we were going great guns, 00:11 setting everything right after the turmoil 00:14 of the election of 2016 00:17 with the new administration in '17. 00:21 There is so much to talk about. 00:22 You know, everything's... 00:24 well, politically charged but underneath it all 00:26 is the subtext of where we go religiously 00:29 as a nation. 00:31 You know, I think there's just a lot of fear 00:34 and paranoia out there 00:35 built up on conspiracy theories, 00:37 whether we're talking about Breitbart or Alt-Right 00:41 or whatever, the Christian right, you know, 00:44 the Tea Party etcetera, 00:46 there has been this sense of paranoia since 2010 00:50 that has been building up for seven years. 00:53 This idea that all the presidents 00:56 come to have military exercises in Texas, 00:59 they come to take away all of our guns. 01:01 Alex Jones and his radio program. 01:02 I forget Alex Jones, the Governor of Texas. 01:05 Who will say... 01:08 Donald trump's favorite radio program is Alex Jones. 01:11 You remember the Governor of Texas 01:13 felt threatened by that whole exercise... 01:14 Yeah, yeah. 01:16 He said that is an imminent takeover. 01:17 Which was nonsense, I mean, proven to be nonsense 01:19 and it was nonsense, 01:21 and so you have this sense of paranoia 01:23 and people feeding on conspiracy theories 01:26 that are baseless, 01:28 and so 01:29 it's like the government's coming to get you, 01:31 the government's coming to get you. 01:34 And I fear that's taking over mainstream Christianity. 01:39 And it's... 01:42 unfortunately, it has transformed 01:45 the religious landscape to where we're living 01:49 almost in a state of paranoia similar to before I was, 01:52 just before I was born, 01:54 the McCarthy era, which, you know... 01:56 You're on my wavelength. 01:58 Yeah, so... 01:59 It almost doesn't matter what some of these tumults are 02:04 taken together they show the system in freefall, 02:07 and in public trust, and what the term I use 02:10 is the social contract. 02:11 We're in great danger 02:13 of the social contract breaking down. 02:15 Now the biggest one is working out right now 02:18 is you and I made. 02:20 There was a charge made from the highest levels. 02:23 The security forces were surveilling 02:27 presidential candidates... 02:29 One in particular. Right. 02:30 Denied, but it's come out through WikiLeaks 02:34 in great detail that this is so. 02:36 Now what does that mean? 02:38 I didn't read it that way. Yes. 02:40 I didn't read it that way. 02:41 It's certain, 02:43 people should've realized that it's so anyhow, 02:45 because even in the Bush administration 02:47 it turned out even though they denied it, 02:49 they were sweeping up all conversation. 02:51 Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, 02:53 just this morning, 02:55 put out a statement saying that, 02:58 "We're going to subpoena Donald Trump 03:00 in the White House for the proof and evidence 03:03 that he was wiretapped, and so right now 03:07 the White House is starting to back pedal vigorously, 03:10 because they have no evidence. 03:11 And number two, 03:13 President Obama, former president, 03:15 just vigorously denied along with all of his employees 03:20 that they did any such thing. 03:21 But you and I are observers on that but the... 03:23 And the FBI is denying that this ever happened... 03:24 This is another WikiLeaks release, 03:26 where they actually mails and so on. 03:28 The point I want to make is, 03:30 we know, if you read 03:33 and that's not a conspiracy theory, 03:35 the government, since they have the electronic capability 03:38 are collecting everything, everything. 03:41 And it's going into digital vaults. 03:43 The WikiLeaks thing did not specifically bring up 03:47 the question about the president being tapped, 03:50 all right, before he became president. 03:51 But the point I want to make on this... 03:53 What it's talking about is surveillance of US citizens 03:57 and not necessarily the president elect, 03:59 although that can obviously be a natural leap 04:02 in conclusion. 04:03 There is no evidence based at them. 04:05 I will bring it back to religious point. 04:09 It was restated a few years ago. 04:14 In parallel to what had happened 04:15 under the Bush administration, 04:16 and as I remember back in the Vietnam War, 04:20 where religious groups were being surveilled. 04:24 And not all religious groups 04:25 and we don't want to get too deep into that. 04:27 Well, those viewed as extremists. 04:29 Right. 04:31 So the government is showing an interest 04:33 and not necessarily telling us what they're doing. 04:35 You know, you can say that's fine. 04:37 My point is, we're at a moment 04:39 when at the highest levels 04:40 that surveillance is being challenged 04:43 and even discredited. 04:45 Well, I don't care for a semi police state, 04:48 but still when you pull the teeth on it 04:52 as happened in East Germany and in the Soviet Union, 04:55 the system collapses, 04:57 because you've got to have a system, 04:59 good or bad or indifferent. 05:01 If it's not respected, if it's not competent, 05:04 if it's not allowed to do what it's doing, 05:06 and you don't replace it with something else, 05:07 it goes into freefall. 05:09 To back up what you're saying, 05:10 I attend the annual religion and foreign policy workshop, 05:13 summer workshop, at the Council on Foreign Relations, 05:16 world headquarters at Madison Avenue, 05:18 New York City, 05:19 and I'm going again May 23-24 of this year, 05:22 and the emphasis is always on how do we, and by the way, 05:26 it's co-sponsored by the US State Department, 05:28 but it's... 05:30 As prejudice being kept radically. 05:31 Yes, in fact, they're not even flying everybody out anymore, 05:34 because the US State Department 05:36 has not refunded their contract, 05:38 or renewed their contract with the Council for Relations, 05:40 but let me finish my point. 05:42 My point is that when I go to these conferences 05:45 almost invariably the number one theme 05:48 that overrides everything else is how do we, 05:52 how do 300 religious leaders 05:54 that they pull in from the United States 05:56 just grassroots, nobody is like me. 05:58 Okay, how do we... 06:00 That they want to consult with us is the reason 06:02 for the workshop as well as having dignitaries, 06:04 and speakers, and foreign policy experts, 06:07 and State Department officials, 06:08 even secretaries of state, 06:10 speak to us as we have these outbreak sessions, 06:13 and they want to know from us, 06:16 how do we moderate extremists, 06:18 how do we get the moderate religious world 06:21 to give us answers on 06:24 how to deal with the world's problems 06:25 so that our foreign policy as the United States 06:29 uses religion to solve the world's problems 06:32 and bring about world peace, 06:33 that's by the way been a strategy 06:34 since the George W. Bush administration. 06:36 It was actually started under Colin Powell's leadership, 06:39 later Condoleezza Rice, and then Barack Obama, 06:42 and Hillary Clinton, and that to me is fascinating. 06:46 This idea that we can use religion 06:49 to moderate extremists, and if they don't moderate, 06:54 then what do we do next. 06:55 So it's a foreign policy 06:57 based upon moderation and extinction so to speak. 07:02 I'm glad you added that, because I was about to tell you 07:04 this whole extremism thing is extremely dangerous 07:08 because at root it has the idea 07:10 there is something inherently dangerous 07:12 about this religious viewpoint 07:15 and as long as we can keep it contained, we're safe. 07:18 Right. 07:20 And religious liberty should allow everyone 07:23 to believe what they want, but sooner or later, 07:25 any government that sees an extremist version 07:28 of any political activity 07:30 or any religious affiliation is dangerous. 07:33 Sooner or later, it will come to the nub and say that, 07:37 you know, we can't just deal 07:38 with its extreme manifestation at root. 07:41 It's problematic. We won't allow it in the state. 07:43 You know, it's interesting... 07:44 And people haven't followed the logic, 07:46 but at some point that is going to come about, 07:48 I'm certain of it, with this talk of extremism. 07:51 It's very interesting. 07:52 Revelation 13 points out 07:54 a threefold union of the United States of America, 07:57 our Protestant America 07:59 aligning itself with a healed Roman power, 08:03 the Holy Roman Empire power, or the Vatican OEC, okay, 08:07 aligned with this fire that supposedly come straight 08:11 from the throne room of God 08:12 from heaven itself to full view, 08:15 in the full view of men. 08:16 What is this fire, that Greek word... 08:17 What does it say? 08:19 It says this lamb-like beast brings fire down from heaven 08:21 in the sight of men. 08:22 Yes. 08:24 Really say where it's from or what it is, 08:25 whether it's literal, figurative, spiritual. 08:28 The word fire in the Greek is Pura or Pur, okay. 08:32 P-U-R, and it's the same word 08:34 at the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2, 08:36 "The cloven tongues of fire." 08:38 That was the true outpouring of the Holy Spirit. 08:40 In Revelation 13-13, this fire is a false spirit 08:45 that takes the world by storm. 08:47 I see it as a kin to the charismatic movement and... 08:50 Well, it could be except that, why does it say, 08:52 fire down from heaven in the sight of men. 08:54 Well, the Pentecost was rather a close thing, 08:57 not the whole country saw it. 08:59 It suggests that it's worldwide and that it's sweeping, 09:02 and that suggest that religious leaders 09:06 are looked to by the people, 09:07 the masses for solving the world's problems, 09:10 and they've given up on the political leaders, 09:11 they've given up on world leaders. 09:13 They're turning to religious leaders 09:14 to instruct political leaders 09:16 and world leaders to solve the world's problems. 09:18 So it goes back to my conversation 09:20 about the Council on Foreign Relations 09:22 in our annual Religion and Foreign Policy workshop 09:24 which is, you know, works out right before my eyes 09:26 in terms of what I see here in this threefold union. 09:30 To me, the charismatic movement has yet to really kick in, 09:33 in terms of a major force or power, 09:36 but we see it coming 09:37 with the emergence of Pope Francis, 09:39 with the emergence of this interfaith movement worldwide, 09:43 and combine that with the Christian 09:46 right here in the United States, 09:47 and the ecumenical forces that are coming align together. 09:51 We can see how prophecy is lining up. 09:54 Yeah. 09:55 Well, you know, we use the term charismatic 09:56 and it has a lot of baggage, 09:58 but what I think, you're saying is, 10:00 it's sort of a generalized spirituality 10:03 that has its common denominator, 10:05 a political center, a political agenda. 10:09 What I'm saying is... It's not doctrinal. 10:11 Donald Trump has seized upon that and he's... 10:15 I really believe his presidency 10:17 seeks to harness the religious powers 10:20 here in the United States to fulfill his dream 10:22 and his vision and theirs in turn. 10:25 And this is good a way to get to the end as I can imagine. 10:30 What we see happening here is a United States of America 10:34 in which the religious powers here in the United States 10:37 are really seeking to control our country. 10:42 This is a television program, 10:44 but I also edit Liberty Magazine, 10:45 and recently in an editorial, I began by, 10:47 there shall be weeping and lamentation in the streets. 10:51 Unfortunately, that characterized 10:52 many of the sore losers 10:54 in the last US presidential election. 10:57 That's not really a good way to react, 11:00 but it's understandable because some people do lose, 11:04 but what we need to remind our leaders, 11:06 don't hold it against people that have that attitude 11:11 because there's always naysayers. 11:13 Make sure that you act morally and honestly 11:16 toward the majority. 11:18 One of my heroes in history is Oliver Cromwell, 11:21 who headed up by religious state 11:23 after England's civil war. 11:25 He's gone down badly in history, especially, 11:27 from a Catholic point of view, 11:29 but one thing that I admired in him 11:31 to read that during his rule, 11:33 he allowed the publication of a book 11:35 that actually outlined 11:37 how to assassinate Oliver Cromwell himself. 11:40 Toleration should have reasonable limits. 11:44 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2017-04-20