Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
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Before the break
with guest Greg Hamilton,
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we were going great guns,
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setting everything
right after the turmoil
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of the election of 2016
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with the new
administration in '17.
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There is so much to talk about.
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You know, everything's...
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well, politically
charged but underneath it all
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is the subtext of
where we go religiously
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as a nation.
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You know, I think
there's just a lot of fear
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and paranoia out there
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built up on conspiracy theories,
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whether we're talking
about Breitbart or Alt-Right
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or whatever, the
Christian right, you know,
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the Tea Party etcetera,
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there has been this
sense of paranoia since 2010
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that has been
building up for seven years.
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This idea that
all the presidents
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come to have
military exercises in Texas,
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they come to take
away all of our guns.
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Alex Jones and
his radio program.
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I forget Alex Jones,
the Governor of Texas.
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Who will say...
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Donald trump's favorite
radio program is Alex Jones.
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You remember the
Governor of Texas
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felt threatened by
that whole exercise...
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Yeah, yeah.
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He said that is
an imminent takeover.
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Which was nonsense, I
mean, proven to be nonsense
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and it was nonsense,
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and so you have
this sense of paranoia
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and people feeding
on conspiracy theories
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that are baseless,
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and so
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it's like the
government's coming to get you,
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the government's
coming to get you.
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And I fear that's taking
over mainstream Christianity.
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And it's...
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unfortunately,
it has transformed
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the religious
landscape to where we're living
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almost in a state of paranoia
similar to before I was,
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just before I was born,
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the McCarthy era,
which, you know...
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You're on my wavelength.
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Yeah, so...
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It almost doesn't matter
what some of these tumults are
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taken together they
show the system in freefall,
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and in public trust,
and what the term I use
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is the social contract.
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We're in great danger
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of the social
contract breaking down.
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Now the biggest one
is working out right now
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is you and I made.
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There was a charge made
from the highest levels.
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The security
forces were surveilling
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presidential candidates...
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One in particular. Right.
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Denied, but it's
come out through WikiLeaks
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in great detail that this is so.
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Now what does that mean?
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I didn't read it that way. Yes.
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I didn't read it that way.
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It's certain,
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people should've
realized that it's so anyhow,
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because even in
the Bush administration
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it turned out even
though they denied it,
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they were sweeping
up all conversation.
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Senator Lindsey
Graham of South Carolina,
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just this morning,
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put out a statement saying that,
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"We're going to
subpoena Donald Trump
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in the White House
for the proof and evidence
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that he was
wiretapped, and so right now
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the White House is starting
to back pedal vigorously,
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because they have no evidence.
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And number two,
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President Obama,
former president,
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just vigorously denied
along with all of his employees
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that they did any such thing.
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But you and I are
observers on that but the...
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And the FBI is denying
that this ever happened...
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This is another
WikiLeaks release,
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where they
actually mails and so on.
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The point I want to make is,
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we know, if you read
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and that's not a
conspiracy theory,
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the government, since they
have the electronic capability
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are collecting
everything, everything.
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And it's going
into digital vaults.
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The WikiLeaks thing did
not specifically bring up
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the question about the
president being tapped,
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all right, before
he became president.
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But the point I
want to make on this...
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What it's talking about is
surveillance of US citizens
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and not necessarily
the president elect,
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although that can
obviously be a natural leap
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in conclusion.
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There is no
evidence based at them.
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I will bring it
back to religious point.
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It was restated a few years ago.
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In parallel to what had happened
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under the Bush administration,
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and as I remember
back in the Vietnam War,
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where religious
groups were being surveilled.
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And not all religious groups
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and we don't want to
get too deep into that.
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Well, those
viewed as extremists.
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Right.
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So the government
is showing an interest
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and not necessarily
telling us what they're doing.
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You know, you
can say that's fine.
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My point is, we're at a moment
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when at the highest levels
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that surveillance
is being challenged
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and even discredited.
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Well, I don't care
for a semi police state,
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but still when you
pull the teeth on it
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as happened in East
Germany and in the Soviet Union,
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the system collapses,
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because you've
got to have a system,
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good or bad or indifferent.
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If it's not respected,
if it's not competent,
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if it's not allowed
to do what it's doing,
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and you don't replace
it with something else,
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it goes into freefall.
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To back up what you're saying,
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I attend the annual religion
and foreign policy workshop,
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summer workshop, at the
Council on Foreign Relations,
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world
headquarters at Madison Avenue,
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New York City,
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and I'm going again
May 23-24 of this year,
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and the emphasis is always
on how do we, and by the way,
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it's co-sponsored by
the US State Department,
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but it's...
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As prejudice
being kept radically.
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Yes, in fact, they're not even
flying everybody out anymore,
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because the US State Department
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has not refunded their contract,
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or renewed their contract
with the Council for Relations,
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but let me finish my point.
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My point is that when
I go to these conferences
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almost invariably
the number one theme
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that overrides
everything else is how do we,
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how do 300 religious leaders
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that they pull in
from the United States
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just grassroots,
nobody is like me.
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Okay, how do we...
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That they want to
consult with us is the reason
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for the workshop as
well as having dignitaries,
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and speakers, and
foreign policy experts,
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and State Department officials,
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even secretaries of state,
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speak to us as we have
these outbreak sessions,
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and they want to know from us,
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how do we moderate extremists,
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how do we get the
moderate religious world
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to give us answers on
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how to deal with
the world's problems
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so that our foreign
policy as the United States
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uses religion to
solve the world's problems
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and bring about world peace,
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that's by the
way been a strategy
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since the George W.
Bush administration.
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It was actually started
under Colin Powell's leadership,
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later Condoleezza
Rice, and then Barack Obama,
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and Hillary Clinton, and
that to me is fascinating.
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This idea that
we can use religion
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to moderate extremists,
and if they don't moderate,
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then what do we do next.
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So it's a foreign policy
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based upon moderation
and extinction so to speak.
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I'm glad you added that,
because I was about to tell you
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this whole extremism
thing is extremely dangerous
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because at root it has the idea
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there is something
inherently dangerous
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about this religious viewpoint
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and as long as we can
keep it contained, we're safe.
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Right.
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And religious
liberty should allow everyone
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to believe what they
want, but sooner or later,
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any government that
sees an extremist version
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of any political activity
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or any religious
affiliation is dangerous.
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Sooner or later, it will
come to the nub and say that,
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you know, we can't just deal
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with its extreme
manifestation at root.
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It's problematic. We
won't allow it in the state.
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You know, it's interesting...
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And people haven't
followed the logic,
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but at some point that
is going to come about,
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I'm certain of it,
with this talk of extremism.
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It's very interesting.
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Revelation 13 points out
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a threefold union of the
United States of America,
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our Protestant America
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aligning itself with
a healed Roman power,
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the Holy Roman Empire
power, or the Vatican OEC, okay,
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aligned with this fire
that supposedly come straight
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from the throne room of God
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from heaven itself to full view,
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in the full view of men.
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What is this
fire, that Greek word...
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What does it say?
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It says this lamb-like beast
brings fire down from heaven
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in the sight of men.
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Yes.
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Really say where
it's from or what it is,
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whether it's literal,
figurative, spiritual.
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The word fire in the
Greek is Pura or Pur, okay.
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P-U-R, and it's the same word
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at the Day of
Pentecost in Acts 2,
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"The cloven tongues of fire."
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That was the true
outpouring of the Holy Spirit.
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In Revelation 13-13,
this fire is a false spirit
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that takes the world by storm.
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I see it as a kin to the
charismatic movement and...
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Well, it could be
except that, why does it say,
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fire down from
heaven in the sight of men.
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Well, the Pentecost
was rather a close thing,
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not the whole country saw it.
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It suggests that it's worldwide
and that it's sweeping,
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and that suggest
that religious leaders
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are looked to by the people,
00:09:06.14\00:09:07.48
the masses for
solving the world's problems,
00:09:07.51\00:09:10.25
and they've given up
on the political leaders,
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they've given up
on world leaders.
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They're turning
to religious leaders
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to instruct political leaders
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and world leaders to
solve the world's problems.
00:09:16.45\00:09:18.25
So it goes back
to my conversation
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about the Council
on Foreign Relations
00:09:20.12\00:09:22.19
in our annual Religion
and Foreign Policy workshop
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which is, you know,
works out right before my eyes
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in terms of what I see
here in this threefold union.
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To me, the charismatic movement
has yet to really kick in,
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in terms of a
major force or power,
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but we see it coming
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with the
emergence of Pope Francis,
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with the emergence of this
interfaith movement worldwide,
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and combine that
with the Christian
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right here in the United States,
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and the ecumenical forces
that are coming align together.
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We can see how
prophecy is lining up.
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Yeah.
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Well, you know, we
use the term charismatic
00:09:55.56\00:09:56.93
and it has a lot of baggage,
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but what I
think, you're saying is,
00:09:58.33\00:10:00.33
it's sort of a
generalized spirituality
00:10:00.36\00:10:03.53
that has its common denominator,
00:10:03.57\00:10:05.80
a political
center, a political agenda.
00:10:05.83\00:10:09.94
What I'm saying
is... It's not doctrinal.
00:10:09.97\00:10:11.37
Donald Trump has
seized upon that and he's...
00:10:11.41\00:10:15.44
I really believe his presidency
00:10:15.48\00:10:17.41
seeks to harness
the religious powers
00:10:17.45\00:10:20.68
here in the United
States to fulfill his dream
00:10:20.72\00:10:22.92
and his vision
and theirs in turn.
00:10:22.95\00:10:25.45
And this is good a way to
get to the end as I can imagine.
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What we see happening here
is a United States of America
00:10:30.33\00:10:33.96
in which the religious
powers here in the United States
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are really seeking
to control our country.
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This is a television program,
00:10:42.54\00:10:44.04
but I also edit
Liberty Magazine,
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and recently in an
editorial, I began by,
00:10:45.71\00:10:47.81
there shall be weeping and
lamentation in the streets.
00:10:47.84\00:10:51.15
Unfortunately,
that characterized
00:10:51.18\00:10:52.71
many of the sore losers
00:10:52.75\00:10:54.32
in the last US
presidential election.
00:10:54.35\00:10:57.35
That's not really
a good way to react,
00:10:57.39\00:11:00.26
but it's understandable
because some people do lose,
00:11:00.29\00:11:04.39
but what we need
to remind our leaders,
00:11:04.43\00:11:06.76
don't hold it against
people that have that attitude
00:11:06.80\00:11:11.27
because there's
always naysayers.
00:11:11.30\00:11:13.54
Make sure that you
act morally and honestly
00:11:13.57\00:11:16.84
toward the majority.
00:11:16.87\00:11:18.51
One of my heroes in
history is Oliver Cromwell,
00:11:18.54\00:11:21.21
who headed up by religious state
00:11:21.24\00:11:23.08
after England's civil war.
00:11:23.11\00:11:25.81
He's gone down badly
in history, especially,
00:11:25.85\00:11:27.72
from a Catholic point of view,
00:11:27.75\00:11:29.48
but one thing
that I admired in him
00:11:29.52\00:11:31.35
to read that during his rule,
00:11:31.39\00:11:33.36
he allowed the
publication of a book
00:11:33.39\00:11:35.42
that actually outlined
00:11:35.46\00:11:36.99
how to assassinate
Oliver Cromwell himself.
00:11:37.03\00:11:40.26
Toleration should
have reasonable limits.
00:11:40.30\00:11:44.47
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:11:44.50\00:11:47.27