Participants: Lincoln Steed. (Host), Greg Hamilton
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000359A
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00:27 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:29 This is a program 00:30 that brings you discussion, news, views, 00:31 up-to-date information, all on religious liberty, 00:35 both of the United States and around the world. 00:37 My name is Lincoln Steed, editor of Liberty Magazine, 00:41 and my guest on the program Greg Hamilton, 00:43 President of the Northwest Religious Liberty Association. 00:46 Thanks for having me. 00:47 Now that's a good ticket into our discussion here, 00:49 because let's talk about recent events 00:52 in the light of religious liberty. 00:54 Now you would have to be from far sight of the moon 00:57 to have not known 00:58 that in recent months the United States was convulsed 01:01 as I've never seen it before 01:04 by where it was going with its leadership 01:07 and the whole electro process 01:09 and it brought into question in my view 01:10 almost everything about our civil society 01:13 including how we treat other people 01:15 and how we treat other religions. 01:17 What's your take on it? 01:19 Well, if you look at the whole immigration ban 01:21 that's been proposed. 01:22 Well, that was my tip for you. 01:23 You know, the immigration ban suggests 01:26 that your nationality and your religion is suspect 01:32 and so that's part 01:33 of the "New Wedding" requirements 01:37 which is being challenged as potentially unconstitutional 01:41 by the State of Hawaii as we speak. 01:44 It was challenged. 01:45 The first ban which was widely unconstitutional 01:48 was challenge by Washington States Attorney General 01:51 and the Night Circuit... 01:53 They used the establishment close 01:54 as the rational. 01:55 Right or part of it and mainly due process, 01:59 but yes, the due process clause was used saying 02:02 that there was no due process here 02:03 and that they couldn't sight a real threat. 02:06 Okay, because there was no threat 02:08 or never has there been a threat 02:10 from those particular seven countries. 02:13 That's what's fascinating to me. 02:15 Now you made, you said something 02:16 that I want to follow through on this 02:17 'cause this crossed my mind before. 02:19 In banning everybody at first from those countries, 02:24 majority Muslim countries, the assumption was made 02:27 that these are Muslim countries, 02:30 they are synonymous with their religion, 02:32 now and immediately, demographically 02:33 that somewhat true. 02:35 Sure, sure. 02:36 But I really don't like that concept 02:37 that if you're a Syrian, you're a Muslim, 02:39 if you're an American, 02:40 you're some sort of a generic Protestant, 02:44 you know, that's what's developing, 02:46 and then in Russia we're in the middle 02:48 of seeing their war on terrorism 02:50 where to be a Russian 02:51 is to be an Eastern Orthodox nationalist. 02:53 Well, not only that, 02:54 but what was really driving this whole immigration ban 02:57 was a sense of Christian nationalism. 02:59 Now you're getting the vibe. 03:00 That we have to rescue Christianity worldwide 03:03 especially in the Middle East. 03:05 So it almost had a crusade tinge to it, 03:08 which made it suspect, now that, that said, I mean... 03:12 There is a real threat. 03:13 There's a real threat 03:15 to the existence of Christianity 03:16 in the Middle East. 03:17 So to say that there isn't one is also fallacious, 03:20 so we have to be careful how we package this discussion. 03:24 And how come they didn't include Saudi Arabia in that. 03:27 Yeah, isn't that curious, I mean the main offender, 03:31 you know, it all boils down to one word, oil. 03:35 And let's just not pick on Saudi Arabia the country, 03:38 but if you're talking about Islam the threat, 03:41 which was really the subtext here, 03:43 then the dangerous part of Islamic ideology 03:46 that we're dealing with 03:48 does demonstrably come from Saudi Arabia 03:50 and at the very least the US should use 03:53 its undeniable leverage to restrict the promulgation. 03:56 Well, but everything will always emanate 03:58 out of Saudi Arabia because I mean that's, 04:00 that's the homeland of Muhammad. 04:02 Of course, Mecca, Medina. 04:04 And that's where the Sunni, Shia split occurred 04:07 and that Sunni split is still very dynamic 04:09 whether we're talking 04:11 the Ottoman Empire based in Turkey 04:12 or whether we're talking about Iran and the Persians, 04:17 umm, and so forth. 04:19 So you have the emergence of ISIS 04:21 which is basically a Sunni group. 04:23 Okay. 04:24 A little further than that it's a Saudi group. 04:27 That's true, Sunni Saudi and Iraqi. 04:29 I remember when it first caught the attention of everyone 04:33 and they first started cutting off heads. 04:35 I read the demographic breakdown of the, 04:37 at that time they thought about 15,000 fighters, 04:41 7,000 of them were Saudis. 04:43 Wow. That's incredible. 04:45 It's way out of proportion to the Islamic world. 04:47 Yeah, and when you consider that most of the terrorist 04:49 attacks have occurred on our soil are home-grown. 04:52 Yes, they may have been influenced and inspired by 04:54 whether they had relationships to the Taliban 04:57 or other terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda, 05:00 ISIS whether in Pakistan, 05:01 Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, or wherever. 05:05 The point is that they have been home-grown. 05:08 They're actually already US citizens. 05:11 Now how are you going to vet something 05:14 10, 20 years down the road, 05:15 when somebody is all of a sudden been inspired 05:18 only in a matter of days or even months? 05:21 So that to me is very difficult to detect 05:24 and that's why our country, 05:27 I think is before along we're in danger 05:30 turning into a major police state. 05:33 I agree and that's, 05:34 that sounds like another program. 05:36 We need to have all discussed on it, 05:38 but let me try what was that TV station, 05:40 the TV program where the six priest would say, 05:43 and then they give you a choice, right? 05:45 Could you say that again? Yeah, so the real, let's... 05:48 here's the question greatest threat to the US 05:52 global warming or Islamic fundamentalism? 05:55 Well, you know, I'll be honest with you. 05:57 I'm rather hawkish in my foreign policy. 05:59 I'm not a liberal when it comes to foreign policy 06:02 and I really believe that our presidents have done 06:06 what they've had to do. 06:07 Now, some people would disagree about invasion into Iraq. 06:11 I personally believe that it was, 06:13 it was, it was necessary. 06:15 That's your personal view, 06:17 it's not of Northwest Religious Liberty Association. 06:18 It's my personal view and it's not, 06:20 yeah, it's not attached to our program, 06:22 The Northwest Religious Liberty Association 06:24 or Liberty Magazine. 06:26 But I think Bush did not lie. 06:28 I don't believe 06:30 that there is any conspiracy here. 06:31 I really believe that he went on the intelligence 06:35 that was given him. 06:36 Even Colin Powell did for crying out loud, I mean, 06:38 he, he... 06:40 You talk about a balanced fellow. 06:42 It came from sources that seem credible at the time. 06:45 So you know the invasion of Afghanistan. 06:47 Well, I'd rather put it another way, 06:49 there's a group psychology not just the mob 06:53 that smashes windows in the university town. 06:57 A whole country, 06:59 there's a paranoia that can grip a whole country 07:02 to the highest levels of planners 07:04 and things become so fulfilling. 07:06 I think there was an element of that. 07:08 In retrospect we can see 07:09 that it was clearly over hyped and unjustified. 07:13 There's a movement towards isolationism in this country 07:15 it's a Jacksonian populism that Donald Trump seized 07:20 and got elected as president and it says, 07:23 "Isolate this sense of isolation, 07:25 " that what's good for America, I mean, 07:27 everything that's good for America we need to do. 07:29 Jobs, not fight foreign wars, and so on and so forth. 07:33 It's been a sort of a new phenomenon 07:35 that has developed within the Republican party, 07:37 because the Republican party 07:38 has always been very hawkish in their foreign policy, 07:42 interventionist type foreign policy, 07:44 neoconservative foreign policy and I think that, 07:47 that my belief is that the United Nations, 07:51 I mean the United States is the indispensable nation. 07:54 It's the last nation. 07:56 The last superpower revealed in prophecy. 07:59 It is the last major superpower in prophecy. 08:02 Charles Krauthammer, Fox News once said 08:05 that the United States is the Ancient Roman Republic, 08:10 the Rome of the Caesars and the Holy Roman Empire 08:12 with church state unity all rolled up into one. 08:15 In other words, he says, we're almost there and he says, 08:19 listen our military is in over 300 countries, 08:23 Lincoln, our military. 08:26 The expanse of our power in the world is enormous. 08:29 Most Americans aren't aware of that 08:31 the US literally occupies the whole world militarily. 08:34 Yes. Right. 08:35 And it's never pulled back even from World War II. 08:38 We still occupy all those country. 08:39 Correct. 08:41 By the way Charles Krauthammer, 08:42 I have great admiration for him. 08:43 He's married to an Australian. 08:46 Okay. 08:48 And I can see once I found that out 08:50 and he wrote a column once about his wife 08:53 and his sympathies to Australia. 08:55 Yeah. 08:56 But I can see now that callus all of his views. 08:59 By the way, talking about Australia, 09:01 we had a most interesting, 09:04 dynamic earlier on in this new administration, 09:06 a conversation with Australia, 09:08 and suddenly Australia and the US are at loggerheads 09:12 for the first time in my life. 09:13 Yeah, that was kinda... 09:15 Now the world has turned on its head and, 09:17 you know, it might just be simple politics 09:19 and unfortunate politics, 09:23 but still Australia is another liberal country 09:26 like the United States 09:28 that has protected civil and religious liberties 09:29 the same way. 09:31 What does that mean when we're so...? 09:32 Well, remind me what the dispute was 09:34 in Australia? 09:35 I don't know what's going on. 09:36 Well, it does go back to what you were talking about 09:38 because even before 9/11 there were Iraqi, Afghan, 09:41 and Syrian refugees making their way down to Asia 09:46 renting or buying ruined ships trying to make it to Australia 09:51 and then scuttling them inside of the Australian Navy 09:54 and Australia has refused to integrate them. 09:58 And they've kept them in a detention camp 10:00 on Christmas Island 10:02 and initially they sold some of them 10:03 to the Island of Nauru for $16,000 10:07 a head in arrangement 10:08 where they would take citizenship but... 10:11 Oh, this is related to the phone conversation 10:13 between Donald Trump 10:15 and the Australian prime minister. 10:16 So there was obviously an agreement which, you know, 10:20 we don't need to know 10:21 and it's not an earth shaking thing, 10:22 a 1,000 of them would have been dealt with by the US 10:25 probably settled in a larger country 10:28 not as important but for Australia 10:30 to take a 1,000 highly suspect people, 10:32 they couldn't deal with it. 10:34 Right. 10:35 What I think normally would have happened. 10:37 The new administration when it got the call. 10:39 No, that's an interesting proposition 10:41 but we are good buddies, we want to work in with you. 10:43 We'll get back to you on that. 10:44 Yeah. But instead... 10:46 And Donald Trump hung up 10:47 on the prime minister supposedly. 10:49 Right, and I've checked on Australia their, 10:50 for the first time since World War II 10:52 looking again at the special relationship with the US 10:55 and they are thinking of establishing 10:57 their own nuclear deterrent. 10:58 Wow. 10:59 So it could have huge ramifications not... 11:01 How serious is that? 11:03 I would take it serious. Really? 11:04 'Cause it was an agreement post World War II 11:07 as top allies Australia agreed not to develop the bomb 11:11 because the US would provide the umbrella. 11:13 I remember the breeder reactor in Sydney when I lived there. 11:16 What nuclear threat is aimed at Australia? 11:19 Well, they are always very suspicious. 11:21 I mean, China would be the closest. 11:23 No, they're very suspicious of Indonesia... 11:25 Oh, India. Indonesia... 11:26 And India. 11:27 200 million Islamic country about it. 11:32 But anyhow that's the world as it is 11:34 and with religious liberty we work with it but... 11:36 Well, that's not right 11:38 because Britain and Australia are too close 11:40 and Canada are three closest allies. 11:45 And always will be, 11:47 regardless of who hangs up on who. 11:49 At the end of the day the special relationship 11:51 is really a cultural affinity that will continue, 11:55 but my point is that a rash phone call is going 11:59 to sort of shift the dynamic in those countries 12:03 and Australia will become more of a regional military power 12:06 rather than auxiliary for the US. 12:10 You think Donald Trump will calm down 12:11 and settle into his role as a president? 12:13 Probably. 12:15 All presidents do that and I have no brief 12:17 to publicly criticize the president particularly, 12:22 but the problematic thing on religious liberty 12:24 that you and I will discuss more than this program 12:27 I think need to and others to come after you. 12:32 Donald Trump for better or worse thought 12:34 that it was necessary in America 12:36 first to integrate a newly developed 12:40 political religious sensibility with the religious right. 12:43 And pretty much give them a blank promise. 12:46 It's White nationalism, 12:48 it's White Christian nationalism. 12:51 At its worst form 12:52 and there's been some critique of this 12:54 that is pretty much Arian Nation thinking. 12:58 Well, you know, you know what's interesting, 13:00 I was just reading Foreign Affairs Journal 13:01 about this from the Council on Foreign Relations 13:04 and one of the things that was brought out 13:06 is that this whole Jacksonian populism 13:08 that Donald Trump seized upon 13:11 is based upon the fear and threat 13:15 that ethnic minorities and religious minorities 13:18 are making up the bulk 13:20 and the vast majority of this country 13:23 and so, white Christian nationalists, 13:26 the working class so to speak 13:28 who are out of work feel threatened 13:31 especially by illegal immigrants 13:33 taking their jobs. 13:35 Well, and they're correct to a certain point, 13:36 there are social stresses 13:38 that we haven't seen for quite a while. 13:40 They're just wrong in thinking that's the solution to it. 13:43 And even the new president is wrong to suggest 13:46 that just an American first policy 13:48 will undo all of the global dynamics. 13:51 Yeah, like free trade and NAFTA which has taken jobs away... 13:55 For better or worse the world is interconnected... 13:57 Shut down factories and plants here in US. 13:59 Electronically and in trade 14:01 and sociologically and ethnically, religiously. 14:05 Let's take a break. 14:06 We'll be back after a short break. 14:07 Let's continue this interesting discussion 14:09 in my view 14:10 of what's really going on now in the United States. |
Revised 2017-04-20