Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Ted Wilson
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000358B
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00:05 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider
00:07 with guest Elder Ted Wilson, 00:09 President of the Seventh-day Adventist church. 00:12 I really appreciated your closing comment 00:14 there about the incredible value 00:17 and privilege to be occupied with religious liberty 00:19 while we can before things, even perhaps, 00:22 in the liberal West closes in. 00:26 The Seventh-day Adventist church headquarters 00:27 is based in the United States. 00:29 It's not a US church, 00:31 but looking out from this point, 00:34 what do you say and say in the last year, 00:36 in the last few months, 00:37 is a rosy picture for religious liberty 00:40 or there are some storm clouds? 00:43 What's your personal judgment? 00:44 Obviously, nobody can speak 00:46 for the whole of Seventh-day Adventist church 00:48 in that sense, but what do you see? 00:51 Well, as we view the entire world's situation, 00:55 of course, the last two, three years especially, 00:59 we have seen an intense effort 01:03 to limit freedom in different places 01:06 by oppression, by warfare, 01:09 by many other types of, 01:12 oppressing types of many... 01:14 And religion's nearly always the key in this... 01:16 And religion is, plays a huge factor in this, 01:19 or people's at least, people's background in that, 01:21 and the cultural identities 01:23 They fight for identity in Israel. 01:24 And, of course, 01:25 that puts everybody at an uneasy setting, 01:30 and people are really kind of unsure 01:34 as to what's going to happen. 01:35 When that kind of thing happens, 01:37 then, of course, national governments attempt 01:40 to reassure people, 01:42 they try to implement certain kinds of laws 01:45 and measures that will protect people. 01:48 And unfortunately, in those situations, 01:51 people are then willing to give up certain aspects 01:55 of their personal liberty and freedom 01:57 which they have enjoyed in order to have 01:59 that overarching presence of supposed security. 02:05 And unfortunately, 02:07 I see that's drifting very rapidly 02:11 not only in the United States but in many other places, 02:15 towards a herd mentality where, 02:19 people are gonna ask politicians, 02:21 and national leaders, civic leaders, 02:24 "Protect us, take care of us. 02:25 And even if you take away some liberties, 02:27 that's not a real problem 02:28 because we want to be in security." 02:31 And I'm afraid that this kind of instability 02:34 is fostering a lack of understanding 02:38 regarding religious liberty, 02:39 even though sometimes, Lincoln, people are stating, 02:43 we are gonna get these measures in place 02:45 in order to protect your religious liberty. 02:47 It's an irony there, and it does seem to me, 02:49 we're just on the cusp of religion itself 02:52 being invoked as a protection against the other religion. 02:56 And I'm sure you read the news, there's some public talk, 02:59 I hope it's just talk about perhaps, 03:02 detaining groups, 03:04 they're defined from a religious point of view 03:06 and that just sets my teeth on it. 03:08 That's the wrong way to do with it, isn't it? 03:11 No, we need to respect the rights of everyone 03:15 and to respect the religious rights of everyone, 03:20 unless those religious rights 03:22 are involving some type of terrible warfare 03:26 against people... 03:27 Civil wars take care of that. 03:28 Exactly. 03:30 So the respect of a person 03:32 and their religious convictions is at the very foundation 03:36 of the constitution of the United States 03:39 and of many other national governments. 03:42 In some places, of course, 03:43 there's no liberty for religious freedom 03:47 in terms of certain countries of the world. 03:49 But most countries have at least 03:51 some window-dressing that they might say, 03:54 "Yes, we provide religious freedom." 03:56 But for a Christian, for a Seventh-day Adventist, 04:00 for those of us who are involved 04:01 in trying to promote 04:03 and nurture this kind of thing in the minds, 04:06 especially of national leaders, of state leaders, 04:09 I think it's important to remember 04:11 that this is part and parcel of Christ's ministry Himself. 04:15 And now when Jesus got up and spoke in the synagogue, 04:19 and He took the scrolls, 04:22 and He read from the book of Isaiah, 04:24 it was actually from Isaiah 61. 04:25 I could see you're ready to read it, 04:26 it's a powerful passage. 04:28 It is. 04:29 And it was the formal list from the gospel camp, 04:31 the formal beginning of His ministry, 04:33 so it characterized it. 04:34 It's found in Luke 4:18-19 where, 04:39 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, 04:40 He anointed me 04:41 to preach the gospel to the poor 04:43 and heal the broken hearted, 04:44 preach deliverance to the captives, 04:46 recovery of sight to the blind, 04:48 and set at liberty them that are bruised, 04:53 and then to preach the acceptable year 04:54 of the Lord." 04:56 Now that comes directly from Isaiah 61 and in 61:1, 05:01 it actually says, 05:02 "Proclaim liberty to the captives." 05:05 Now that's what Liberty Magazine is all about, 05:08 that's what religious freedom... 05:09 And they're captive to sin, not to the political system. 05:12 All kinds of captivity. 05:14 I mean, captivity to improper physical habits, 05:17 to mental difficulties, to interpersonal challenges, 05:22 to some kind of a block on understanding 05:26 what religious connection means to Christ Himself. 05:30 You know, the devil, 05:31 and I believe that there is a devil, 05:34 I believe he's very active, 05:35 and he is trying to counteract every good thing 05:38 that the Lord is wanting to do. 05:40 So the Lord is wanting to set at liberty 05:43 those who are captives by sin and by Satan. 05:47 And by God's grace, all of us have that privilege. 05:50 We need to be freed, to be set at liberty. 05:52 So Liberty Magazine is not only a wonderful vehicle 05:55 for just alerting State House leaders 06:00 and national leaders about things, 06:02 it's actually a call to all of us 06:05 to be part of helping everyone 06:08 who is a captive and, of course, 06:10 unfortunately, we are as well. 06:12 We're all sinners in need of Jesus Christ 06:16 and the Lord liberates us. 06:17 Yeah, I appreciate you're taking it 06:19 back to basics, it's the gospel. 06:20 Gospel is the message of liberation. 06:23 It's troubled me lately 06:25 that everyone talks about religious liberty, 06:27 nobody is against that. 06:29 You worked for some time in Russia, 06:31 when it was under the Soviet Union, right? 06:33 Or what it was... 06:35 Just after the collapse of... 06:36 Sorry, yes, it was a transition time, 06:37 but, you know, the Soviet Union 06:39 was still an echo there. 06:40 Soviet Union guaranteed religious liberty in writing, 06:44 not in practice. 06:45 Right. 06:46 And today in the US, 06:48 there's much talk of religious liberty. 06:49 And I've come to believe, 06:50 it means different things to different people 06:52 and in our society in the West, 06:53 more and more it means religious privilege, 06:56 entitlement, 06:57 that's not what Jesus was talking about, 06:58 that's not what your church, my church is bounded, 07:02 it's the Seventh-day Adventist church 07:03 began Liberty Magazine, 07:05 even though it's mostly distributed 07:06 to non-Adventists. 07:08 Let me ask you of a ticklish part of it, 07:11 because it goes back to the reformation. 07:12 Martin Luther, 07:14 when he brought out his great truths, 07:16 he was a Catholic priest, 07:18 because Protestantism ended up being a different entity. 07:20 But he was within the Adventists, 07:23 just the Catholic church. 07:24 And the Adventist church, 07:26 like all other churches has its own bubbling, 07:29 cauldron of ideas and people's initiatives 07:32 and I think they need to be heard 07:33 and change the church. 07:35 How do we relate internally to dissent? 07:38 Is it a religious liberty issue, 07:40 'cause I think there's a bit of a fallacy at work here? 07:43 Well, first of all, 07:45 within a Christian community of faith 07:49 and the Seventh-day Adventist church in particular, 07:52 certainly there's an opportunity for people 07:54 to share opinions. 07:56 We don't work lockstep. 07:59 We don't have uniformity in everything, 08:01 but we do strive for unity 08:03 and those principles have to be based 08:05 on the word of God. 08:06 And... 08:08 A shared goal. 08:09 Exactly, and on understanding that God has a purpose 08:13 for this movement, 08:15 I'd like to refer 08:16 to the Seventh-day Adventist church 08:17 is not just a denomination, it is a movement, 08:20 an Advent movement, 08:22 propelling people towards 08:24 the soon coming of Jesus Christ 08:26 and all that that involves. 08:29 Christ is the center, Christ is the focus, 08:32 all of the doctrines and the beautiful truths 08:35 that we have are all centered in Jesus Christ. 08:38 Now the challenge comes when some aspects 08:41 which scripture is not as clear on, 08:44 develop into some discussion and differences of opinion, 08:48 but we should always remember 08:50 we need to come back to the word 08:51 and to a simple humble faith. 08:54 And I think Pentecost explains that 08:56 when people have this shared spiritual direction 09:01 reaching toward God, 09:02 it minimizes the dissension, that they weren't vying, 09:05 after Pentecost, the disciples weren't vying anymore 09:08 who'll be the greatest in the kingdom. 09:09 But the other thing, 09:10 I want to tell our viewers while you're on camera, 09:12 many people that write to me, 09:14 not just within our church, others, 09:16 they think internal church squabbles 09:18 are a religious liberty issue in the classic sense 09:20 because it's a free association, 09:22 there is no compulsion. 09:25 That's the key. 09:26 If there's compulsion even to a Seventh-day Sabbath 09:28 that is so important for our church, 09:31 that would be wrong, wouldn't it? 09:32 You don't require or force people to do 09:35 even the right thing. 09:36 You leave it up to the conscience, 09:38 and if it's spirit-directed, God, 09:41 we can trust that God will lead people toward truth, 09:43 it's the Spirit of truth. 09:44 And the Holy Spirit does that. 09:46 There's also a very important element 09:48 of humility in discussion as well 09:51 and surrender to the will of God 09:54 and to the influence of the Holy Spirit. 09:56 Because if you believe 09:58 that the Lord is leading in a movement, 10:00 you then are able to surrender 10:03 even your own hard held opinion to that of the body, 10:08 if you believe that this is truly God's church, 10:12 and a remnant people 10:13 who will be awaiting Christ's soon return. 10:17 You can believe that God Himself 10:19 will direct that people 10:21 and that group into a harmonious approach, 10:25 even if you may have 10:26 some dissension and disagreement, 10:29 that level of humility is also so important. 10:32 I appreciate your comment on that 10:34 because the way I see it, 10:36 your role and those in other denominations 10:38 that lead out, they've got a double problem, 10:40 projecting the view to the larger world 10:43 and then managing the believers behind you, 10:48 because human existence is turbulent. 10:51 It's not as simple as this, us, and then, them, 10:55 in reality under God, it's all, we. 10:58 But I think people should see this 11:00 and it's not necessary 11:03 for any church to be absolutely of a single, 11:08 you know, an unvarying viewpoint for it 11:10 to be consistent in projecting what it stands for, 11:13 because we're always gonna to have a little dissonance. 11:15 Yeah, but, you know, that beautiful verse that says, 11:19 "The Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth." 11:21 Oh, I believe that. 11:23 And that's where the unity is found. 11:24 In John 17, Christ's prayer for His disciples, 11:28 not only for those disciples but for those who would follow, 11:31 which includes us, that we be one in Christ, 11:34 now that, of course, means, 11:36 one in an understanding of what truth is. 11:37 Even I need to do another program 11:39 because oneness, a Christian oneness 11:41 is a loaded initiative now 11:43 and there shouldn't be a unification 11:46 on a false common ground. 11:47 Well, let's do another program. Yeah. 11:50 Well, thank you very much, 11:52 and thank you as always for your ongoing support 11:54 of religious liberty and Liberty Magazine. 11:56 Praise God. 11:58 This is the end of the program. 11:59 I'll have a little stand up after this, 12:01 but thank you for this time discussing together. 12:03 And great to be with you. 12:05 I hope you enjoyed that interview 12:06 with Elder Wilson as much as I did in conducting it. 12:10 And I'm hoping that at some later point, 12:11 I can sit down with him again. 12:14 I grew up as a Seventh-day Adventist 12:16 and as a young boy, 12:18 I often remember reading Adventist material 12:23 that linked to the reformation, 12:24 in particular, The Great Controversy, 12:28 one of the major books 12:29 written by early Adventist pioneer Ellen White 12:33 and largely that book is history, 12:35 and it was powerful for me as a young person, 12:38 not knowing a lot of history, 12:40 not knowing a lot of my church's history, 12:42 to read there the re-telling of the story 12:45 of truth through the edges, 12:47 and then hitting that high point 12:49 in the reformation with Luther, 12:51 Hus, Zwingli and other great reformers, 12:54 and to realizing that what they did in their day, 12:58 I am inheriting in my day 13:00 as the Seventh-day Adventist Christian 13:01 and of course, many other Christians, 13:04 Protestants, have inherited the things 13:07 that they fought for, 13:09 which most particularly 13:10 was religious freedom and expression. 13:15 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2017-05-04