Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Amjad Waryam
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000351A
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00:25 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:27 This is the program with discussion, 00:29 news, updates 00:31 and analysis of religious liberty events 00:34 in the US and around the world. 00:36 My name is Lincoln Steed and I edit Liberty magazine. 00:40 And my guest for this program is Amjad Waryam Alam... 00:47 Thank you. 00:48 From Pakistan originally 00:50 but you're based in the US now as I am. 00:53 I'm originally from Australia. 00:54 That'll explain both of our accents 00:56 for our viewers... 00:57 Yeah. 00:59 It's my privilege to have you back 01:00 and my pleasure to have you back on the program. 01:02 Thank you very much. 01:03 We've gone through quite a discussion 01:05 in previous programs, different aspects 01:07 of what you are doing. 01:08 Let's talk and just bring your opinions 01:12 formed by your life experience. 01:14 The world is heading into an uncertain future 01:16 unless you are a Christian, 01:17 the Seventh-day Adventist, right? 01:19 Yeah, I'm a Christian, Seventh-day Adventist. 01:20 What hope do you have for the future? 01:22 I feel that, like worldly wise or religious wise, especially, 01:29 the Lord is coming soon, you know, 01:31 that as this is our faith and this is our hope too. 01:36 And according to what the world is now going on, you know, 01:42 the way it is going on, I think the work will rapidly, 01:46 you know, that come to the end. 01:50 It's like saying that different things are happening, 01:54 you know, especially, 01:56 we were talking about religious freedom, 01:58 you know, that we have lot of freedom in United States, 02:01 you know, and... 02:03 But even here we see rapid change 02:06 and not all of it for the best. 02:08 Yeah, but... 02:09 It stresses for freedom. 02:12 I don't know, before the program 02:14 we are talking cruising the internet 02:16 and seeing different conspiracy theories, 02:17 but something that's impressed me 02:20 on many sites I see, 02:22 or several sites particularly have the event is coming. 02:25 The event... Yeah, event is... 02:27 I don't know what event they talk about, 02:28 but you and I do believe that there's a big event coming, 02:30 don't we? 02:32 Yeah, the big event is coming for sure, you know... 02:34 It's not so much the end of the world, 02:36 it's the end of the world as people know it, 02:37 but it's the beginning of a great eternity 02:40 and fulfillment of the hopes 02:42 of many people through the ages. 02:43 So it's not a dangerous moment, it's the... 02:47 Redeeming moment. Happy moment. 02:48 It's redeeming and you know... 02:50 But as far as religious liberty on a certain level, 02:54 I think you and I both agree that 02:57 the practice of religious liberty 02:59 is probably not going to continue well 03:02 even in the western countries, is it? 03:04 Yeah, the challenges will grow here too, 03:07 you know, for sure. 03:08 But what should our response be? 03:10 This is, and I'm setting you up in a way. 03:12 Does that mean that we are gonna put up our hands 03:15 and say, "Well, we can't stop it, let it go." 03:18 That is forecast. 03:20 I think the changes as the Bible says, you know, 03:24 that end time comes, you know, that of course, 03:27 this will happen. 03:29 You know, there's the word of Jesus Christ, you know, 03:31 if you see the gospel has to be fulfilled, you know. 03:34 And we see that when we have this freedom now 03:40 that we can reach to many and many are ready, you know, 03:44 receptive to it and especially, you know, 03:47 that we were talking about the colporteur ministry, 03:50 you know, literature evangelism 03:51 and then we have medical mission, 03:53 you know, that... 03:55 Well, you're involved in putting material 03:57 in front of people... 03:58 Yeah. 03:59 Just because you think that Christ is coming soon 04:02 is hardly a reason 04:04 to stop showing it to the visit, 04:06 you are not gonna sit back and say, 04:07 "Well, He's about to come, time to stop." 04:09 No, we always have to say what the Bible says, 04:13 He's coming soon. 04:15 When He said, "I will come soon," 04:17 and, you know, "Every eye will see me," 04:20 you know that... 04:21 That's true, that's the promise in the Bible. 04:23 Yeah. 04:24 So it'll be a grand and well noted event, 04:26 not something secret in the chambers as He says... 04:28 Our evangelism simply, you know, 04:30 that if we make it simple, 04:31 it means that we want everybody to be saved 04:34 and everybody will be, will go with the Lord 04:38 when the new earth, new heaven will be formed. 04:40 You know, this what the Bible says. 04:42 And the Lord is coming 04:44 and this is what the great commission 04:45 as we talked about in Matthew 24:14, you know, 04:49 "This gospel of the kingdom 04:51 shall be preached in all the world, 04:52 then shall end come." 04:54 And we see that here that 04:58 if we are taking this great commission 05:00 so why can't we make use of this freedom 05:03 but there, in fact, in spite of with all challenges, you know, 05:07 that there is still time we can witness, 05:10 we can do evangelism, we can preach, 05:13 we can do gospel singing 05:15 and especially the blessing of the ministries 05:19 Lord has given. 05:20 We have God of Life Ministry, we have... 05:22 As I hoped and presumed 05:24 you're playing it to my hand because, 05:26 yes, we know the trouble is coming, 05:28 we know that there's an endpoint 05:29 for at least human activity 05:31 but that's not cause for doing nothing, 05:33 that's cause for doing more, isn't it? 05:35 And when we talk about religious liberty 05:38 that we can see and we are told ahead of time 05:41 that there will be a restriction, 05:43 but that doesn't mean that you accept that, 05:45 you hold it off as long as possible 05:47 because there is something to be done here in now. 05:50 Every day is the day 05:52 to exercise our religious freedom... 05:54 Yeah. 05:55 And talk to people and share whatever faith we have 05:58 and, you know, biblical faith is very inspiring faith. 06:02 So we should never give in, 06:03 never accept that freedom is gone or going, 06:08 even though we might know 06:10 on a certain level of our thinking, 06:11 yes, there will be a closing up here 06:13 or there will be point as Jesus got. 06:14 See, the work is send them all. 06:16 God says, I'll say that, you know, 06:17 let the filthy be filthy still, 06:19 let the righteous be righteous... 06:20 Yeah. 06:22 We don't know that moment, 06:23 until that very instant we should be... 06:24 Continue. 06:26 Enlarging religious liberty... 06:27 Yeah. 06:28 And enlarging our personal witness. 06:30 The work we have done so far is sacrificially done, 06:32 you know, that we see 06:34 that wherever even in Pakistan and here, 06:36 you know, the missionaries has done a lot of work, 06:39 you know, those who have dedicated heart 06:41 and vision especially 06:42 as you mentioned in the other program, 06:44 if there is no vision people perish, 06:46 you know, of course, you know 06:47 and here we have to keep our vision straight, you know, 06:51 and we need to move on according to what we believe, 06:54 you know. 06:56 And we are, I'm so blessed that I got this 07:00 almost 20 years I worked 07:02 within the Seventh-day Adventist Church 07:04 and I worked in the publishing ministry 07:06 more than any other place. 07:07 I trained the colporteurs 07:09 and I have done lot of contribution in this regard, 07:14 in evangelism through literature ministry. 07:18 Now, I'll throw an interesting supposition in on you 07:22 and I'm trying to think of her name. 07:23 What was the Pakistani Prime minister 07:26 that was assassinated not too many years ago? 07:30 I forgot her married name, you know... 07:32 Oh, Benazir Bhutto? 07:34 Bhutto. Yeah... 07:35 I was thinking of... 07:37 She was no connection. 07:38 She was related to her father Bhutto, 07:40 it was, that was a bad story too 07:43 but she seemed to be bringing reforms 07:46 and westernization to Pakistan 07:48 and then she was cut down by assassins. 07:52 Looking at your country 07:53 after that tumultuous political experience, 07:56 how did that affect 07:59 the average person's freedom of operation 08:02 or in particular Christians? 08:05 She was a good leader. 08:07 She was fighting for freedom for everybody 08:10 and she was successful in many ways too, you know, 08:16 that Christians had no trouble, you know, that now also, 08:21 you know, that I see even this time 08:24 when I went to Pakistan last time, 08:26 the situation, things were very, very good, 08:29 better looking than before. 08:31 Good. You know... 08:32 Well, that's really what I was fishing for. 08:34 At least Pakistan is the example. 08:36 In the United States at the moment, 08:39 there's this bigger political tumult 08:41 as I can remember. 08:43 Although there's been some difficult times, 08:45 I think it was 1968... There had... 08:48 There was rioting in Chicago and so on... 08:49 Yeah. 08:50 And you know, things happen in United States here also, 08:53 you know, that they have challenges 08:55 and we have challenges 08:56 and if after all as we talked earlier 08:59 that it's a country, you know, 09:00 the country has some good and bad, 09:03 you know and sometimes things, 09:05 a local person does things 09:08 and always blame comes to the government. 09:12 And anyway, but I'm not here to protect anybody, 09:15 what I'm saying that when I went this time, 09:17 I see people are... 09:18 No, you've given the right answer. 09:20 Yeah. 09:21 I mean, I have personally many fears about the future. 09:23 I get as troubled as anyone 09:25 when the politician says this crazy thing 09:27 or makes this application 09:29 and I don't know short-term anymore than anyone else 09:33 what's going to happen at this time of instability. 09:35 But I do believe that very often, 09:39 even times of great tumult 09:41 like the assassination of Benazir Bhutto, 09:44 that must have been an incredibly traumatic moment 09:47 for anyone living in Pakistan at that time. 09:49 It would have to be. 09:51 We are living in a traumatic challenging moment 09:54 in the US history 09:55 because no one knows what's gonna happen. 09:57 Yeah, now that... 09:58 Really nothing much has happened 10:00 other than it's not following any script 10:01 that was seen before. 10:03 But it may will be that the people 10:07 that are about their business like you, 10:09 selling door-to-door, witnessing, 10:11 that if you stick to your game plan... 10:14 Yeah. 10:15 The world can change and come and go 10:17 but you will still be... 10:19 Moving on with the same. As facilitated as before. 10:20 Yeah, you know... 10:21 We shouldn't lose track of that. 10:23 We are not controlled by externals. 10:25 Yeah. 10:26 They do have the potential to make things difficult 10:29 and I'm sure that some of that will come. 10:31 But we shouldn't sort of not ignore 10:34 but realize that's not the prime determinant 10:37 of how we function and how we fit into society. 10:41 We cannot, you know... 10:43 And religiously liberty 10:44 as is much up to us as the externals. 10:46 Yeah, but we cannot also predict things on existence, 10:49 you know, that what happened in the past 10:51 and it will happen in the future. 10:53 But I think it was Yogi Berra said, the future is very, 10:57 sorry, it's very difficult to know 11:00 to predict particularly the future." 11:02 Yeah, because people in United States knows predicting 11:06 but they never know it can be positive too, you know, 11:08 it can bring lot of good also, you know, that... 11:11 Yeah. 11:12 And, but we'll see how the time goes, you know, 11:15 but one can only according 11:17 to what we have being ministries 11:20 and religious ministry and evangelism, 11:23 we are doing our part, you know, 11:24 that what we have just we are shouting for the end, 11:28 shouting for the Lord's coming, 11:30 shouting for preaching of gospel, you know... 11:31 Right, you know, Jesus gave... 11:32 Sharing the message. Right, good point. 11:34 And remember Jesus gave very good advice, He says, 11:36 "You will hear of wars and rumors of wars..." 11:38 "And rumors of wars and this is all..." 11:40 "See that you don't be dismayed. 11:42 These must take place and end is not yet." 11:45 Yeah. 11:46 And if you don't see this, 11:49 it means the Bible is not fulfilled. 11:51 It means the things happening, the Bible, you know, 11:54 that prophecies are fulfilled, you know. 11:55 I have longed since past the point where I think 11:58 that the Bible's predictions are self-verifying. 12:01 They're coming true very quickly, all that, 12:04 never quite in the same way we may have imagined 12:06 but they fulfilled the letter of the prediction very clearly 12:09 as they happen, you can see 12:11 oh, that's what was being spoken about 12:13 and further traumas are predicted 12:16 but I do believe 12:17 as I was preaching the other night 12:19 about Elisha surrounded by enemies, 12:22 the whole Syrian army... Yeah, yeah... 12:24 They are not necessarily the bad guys now, 12:26 there's something happening in Syria. 12:27 But the Syrian army came up against Elisha personally, 12:31 wanted to capture him and he wasn't worried at all. 12:34 Yeah, he wasn't worried... 12:35 His servant was freaked out of his mind and Elisha prayed, 12:38 opened his eyes 12:39 and then the servant looks around 12:41 and here the hills... 12:42 He see the forces, you know, that protecting. 12:43 There were full of chariots and horsemen... 12:45 Chariots... 12:46 In another words, 12:48 friendly forces were there to protect. 12:49 Yeah. 12:50 So God is much stronger than anything, you know. 12:52 I think people of God have challenges 12:54 but one should not forget God is always, 12:58 you know, greater and powerful than any challenges we have. 13:01 Absolutely, ever a great truth. Amen. 13:02 Let's take a little break and we will be back shortly. 13:05 Stay with us, and I'll continue this discussion 13:07 with Amjad Alam. 13:10 Thank you so much. |
Revised 2017-04-06