Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is the
program with discussion,
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news, updates
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and analysis of
religious liberty events
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in the US and around the world.
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My name is Lincoln Steed
and I edit Liberty magazine.
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And my guest for this
program is Amjad Waryam Alam...
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Thank you.
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From Pakistan originally
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but you're based
in the US now as I am.
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I'm originally from Australia.
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That'll explain
both of our accents
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for our viewers...
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Yeah.
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It's my
privilege to have you back
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and my pleasure to have
you back on the program.
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Thank you very much.
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We've gone
through quite a discussion
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in previous
programs, different aspects
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of what you are doing.
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Let's talk and
just bring your opinions
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formed by your life experience.
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The world is heading
into an uncertain future
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unless you are a Christian,
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the Seventh-day
Adventist, right?
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Yeah, I'm a Christian,
Seventh-day Adventist.
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What hope do you
have for the future?
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I feel that, like worldly wise
or religious wise, especially,
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the Lord is
coming soon, you know,
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that as this is our
faith and this is our hope too.
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And according to what the
world is now going on, you know,
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the way it is going on, I
think the work will rapidly,
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you know, that come to the end.
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It's like saying that
different things are happening,
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you know, especially,
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we were talking
about religious freedom,
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you know, that we have lot
of freedom in United States,
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you know, and...
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But even here
we see rapid change
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and not all of it for the best.
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Yeah, but...
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It stresses for freedom.
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I don't know, before the program
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we are talking
cruising the internet
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and seeing
different conspiracy theories,
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but something
that's impressed me
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on many sites I see,
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or several sites particularly
have the event is coming.
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The event... Yeah, event is...
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I don't know what
event they talk about,
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but you and I do believe
that there's a big event coming,
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don't we?
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Yeah, the big event is
coming for sure, you know...
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It's not so much
the end of the world,
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it's the end of the
world as people know it,
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but it's the
beginning of a great eternity
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and fulfillment of the hopes
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of many people through the ages.
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So it's not a
dangerous moment, it's the...
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Redeeming moment. Happy moment.
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It's redeeming and you know...
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But as far as religious
liberty on a certain level,
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I think you and
I both agree that
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the practice of
religious liberty
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is probably not
going to continue well
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even in the
western countries, is it?
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Yeah, the
challenges will grow here too,
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you know, for sure.
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But what should our response be?
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This is, and I'm
setting you up in a way.
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Does that mean that we
are gonna put up our hands
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and say, "Well, we
can't stop it, let it go."
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That is forecast.
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I think the changes as
the Bible says, you know,
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that end time comes,
you know, that of course,
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this will happen.
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You know, there's the
word of Jesus Christ, you know,
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if you see the gospel has
to be fulfilled, you know.
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And we see that when
we have this freedom now
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that we can reach to many
and many are ready, you know,
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receptive to it and
especially, you know,
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that we were talking
about the colporteur ministry,
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you know, literature evangelism
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and then we
have medical mission,
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you know, that...
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Well, you're
involved in putting material
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in front of people...
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Yeah.
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Just because you think
that Christ is coming soon
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is hardly a reason
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to stop showing it to the visit,
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you are not
gonna sit back and say,
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"Well, He's about
to come, time to stop."
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No, we always have to
say what the Bible says,
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He's coming soon.
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When He said,
"I will come soon,"
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and, you know,
"Every eye will see me,"
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you know that...
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That's true, that's
the promise in the Bible.
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Yeah.
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So it'll be a grand
and well noted event,
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not something secret in
the chambers as He says...
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Our evangelism simply, you know,
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that if we make it simple,
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it means that we
want everybody to be saved
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and everybody will
be, will go with the Lord
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when the new earth,
new heaven will be formed.
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You know, this
what the Bible says.
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And the Lord is coming
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and this is what
the great commission
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as we talked about in
Matthew 24:14, you know,
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"This gospel of the kingdom
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shall be
preached in all the world,
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then shall end come."
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And we see that here that
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if we are taking
this great commission
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so why can't we
make use of this freedom
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but there, in fact, in spite of
with all challenges, you know,
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that there is still
time we can witness,
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we can do
evangelism, we can preach,
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we can do gospel singing
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and especially the
blessing of the ministries
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Lord has given.
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We have God of Life
Ministry, we have...
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As I hoped and presumed
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you're playing it
to my hand because,
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yes, we know the
trouble is coming,
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we know that there's an endpoint
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for at least human activity
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but that's not
cause for doing nothing,
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that's cause for
doing more, isn't it?
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And when we talk
about religious liberty
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that we can see and
we are told ahead of time
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that there will
be a restriction,
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but that doesn't
mean that you accept that,
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you hold it off
as long as possible
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because there is something
to be done here in now.
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Every day is the day
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to exercise our
religious freedom...
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Yeah.
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And talk to people and
share whatever faith we have
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and, you know, biblical
faith is very inspiring faith.
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So we should never give in,
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never accept that
freedom is gone or going,
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even though we might know
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on a certain
level of our thinking,
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yes, there will
be a closing up here
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or there will be
point as Jesus got.
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See, the work is send them all.
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God says, I'll
say that, you know,
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let the filthy be filthy still,
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let the
righteous be righteous...
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Yeah.
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We don't know that moment,
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until that very
instant we should be...
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Continue.
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Enlarging religious liberty...
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Yeah.
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And enlarging
our personal witness.
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The work we have done so
far is sacrificially done,
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you know, that we see
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that wherever even
in Pakistan and here,
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you know, the missionaries
has done a lot of work,
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you know, those who
have dedicated heart
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and vision especially
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as you mentioned
in the other program,
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if there is no
vision people perish,
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you know, of course, you know
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and here we have to keep
our vision straight, you know,
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and we need to move on
according to what we believe,
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you know.
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And we are, I'm so
blessed that I got this
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almost 20 years I worked
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within the
Seventh-day Adventist Church
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and I worked in
the publishing ministry
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more than any other place.
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I trained the colporteurs
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and I have done lot of
contribution in this regard,
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in evangelism
through literature ministry.
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Now, I'll throw an interesting
supposition in on you
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and I'm trying to
think of her name.
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What was the
Pakistani Prime minister
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that was assassinated
not too many years ago?
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I forgot her
married name, you know...
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Oh, Benazir Bhutto?
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Bhutto. Yeah...
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I was thinking of...
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She was no connection.
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She was related
to her father Bhutto,
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it was, that was a bad story too
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but she seemed to
be bringing reforms
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and westernization to Pakistan
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and then she was
cut down by assassins.
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Looking at your country
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after that
tumultuous political experience,
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how did that affect
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the average
person's freedom of operation
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or in particular Christians?
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She was a good leader.
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She was fighting for
freedom for everybody
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and she was successful
in many ways too, you know,
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that Christians had no trouble,
you know, that now also,
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you know, that I
see even this time
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when I went to
Pakistan last time,
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the situation,
things were very, very good,
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better looking than before.
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Good. You know...
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Well, that's really
what I was fishing for.
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At least
Pakistan is the example.
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In the United
States at the moment,
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there's this
bigger political tumult
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as I can remember.
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Although there's
been some difficult times,
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I think it was
1968... There had...
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There was rioting
in Chicago and so on...
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Yeah.
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And you know, things happen
in United States here also,
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you know, that
they have challenges
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and we have challenges
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and if after all
as we talked earlier
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that it's a country, you know,
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the country has
some good and bad,
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you know and sometimes things,
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a local person does things
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and always blame
comes to the government.
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And anyway, but I'm not
here to protect anybody,
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what I'm saying that
when I went this time,
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I see people are...
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No, you've given
the right answer.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I have personally
many fears about the future.
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I get as troubled as anyone
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when the politician
says this crazy thing
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or makes this application
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and I don't know short-term
anymore than anyone else
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what's going to happen
at this time of instability.
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But I do
believe that very often,
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even times of great tumult
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like the
assassination of Benazir Bhutto,
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that must have been an
incredibly traumatic moment
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for anyone living in
Pakistan at that time.
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It would have to be.
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We are living in a
traumatic challenging moment
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in the US history
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because no one
knows what's gonna happen.
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Yeah, now that...
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Really nothing much has happened
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other than it's not
following any script
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that was seen before.
00:10:01.93\00:10:03.37
But it may will
be that the people
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that are about
their business like you,
00:10:07.40\00:10:09.64
selling
door-to-door, witnessing,
00:10:09.67\00:10:11.77
that if you stick
to your game plan...
00:10:11.81\00:10:14.34
Yeah.
00:10:14.38\00:10:15.71
The world can
change and come and go
00:10:15.74\00:10:17.58
but you will still be...
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Moving on with the same.
As facilitated as before.
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Yeah, you know...
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We shouldn't lose track of that.
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We are not
controlled by externals.
00:10:23.25\00:10:25.22
Yeah.
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They do have the potential
to make things difficult
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and I'm sure that
some of that will come.
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But we shouldn't
sort of not ignore
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but realize that's
not the prime determinant
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of how we function and
how we fit into society.
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We cannot, you know...
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And religiously liberty
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as is much up to
us as the externals.
00:10:44.47\00:10:46.31
Yeah, but we cannot also
predict things on existence,
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you know, that what
happened in the past
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and it will
happen in the future.
00:10:51.45\00:10:53.21
But I think it was Yogi
Berra said, the future is very,
00:10:53.25\00:10:57.95
sorry, it's very
difficult to know
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to predict
particularly the future."
00:11:00.32\00:11:02.62
Yeah, because people in
United States knows predicting
00:11:02.66\00:11:05.99
but they never know it
can be positive too, you know,
00:11:06.03\00:11:08.56
it can bring lot of
good also, you know, that...
00:11:08.60\00:11:11.03
Yeah.
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And, but we'll see how
the time goes, you know,
00:11:12.43\00:11:15.90
but one can only according
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to what we have being ministries
00:11:17.87\00:11:20.94
and religious
ministry and evangelism,
00:11:20.98\00:11:23.38
we are doing our part, you know,
00:11:23.41\00:11:24.81
that what we have just
we are shouting for the end,
00:11:24.85\00:11:28.55
shouting for the Lord's coming,
00:11:28.58\00:11:29.98
shouting for
preaching of gospel, you know...
00:11:30.02\00:11:31.59
Right, you know, Jesus gave...
00:11:31.62\00:11:32.95
Sharing the
message. Right, good point.
00:11:32.99\00:11:34.32
And remember Jesus gave
very good advice, He says,
00:11:34.36\00:11:36.36
"You will hear of
wars and rumors of wars..."
00:11:36.39\00:11:38.93
"And rumors of
wars and this is all..."
00:11:38.96\00:11:40.66
"See that you don't be dismayed.
00:11:40.70\00:11:42.30
These must take
place and end is not yet."
00:11:42.33\00:11:45.50
Yeah.
00:11:45.53\00:11:46.87
And if you don't see this,
00:11:46.90\00:11:49.37
it means the
Bible is not fulfilled.
00:11:49.40\00:11:51.17
It means the things
happening, the Bible, you know,
00:11:51.21\00:11:54.34
that prophecies are
fulfilled, you know.
00:11:54.38\00:11:55.81
I have longed since
past the point where I think
00:11:55.84\00:11:58.01
that the Bible's
predictions are self-verifying.
00:11:58.05\00:12:01.82
They're coming true
very quickly, all that,
00:12:01.85\00:12:03.99
never quite in the same
way we may have imagined
00:12:04.02\00:12:06.42
but they fulfilled the letter
of the prediction very clearly
00:12:06.45\00:12:09.82
as they happen, you can see
00:12:09.86\00:12:11.19
oh, that's what
was being spoken about
00:12:11.23\00:12:12.99
and further
traumas are predicted
00:12:13.03\00:12:16.10
but I do believe
00:12:16.13\00:12:17.53
as I was
preaching the other night
00:12:17.57\00:12:19.63
about Elisha
surrounded by enemies,
00:12:19.67\00:12:22.87
the whole Syrian
army... Yeah, yeah...
00:12:22.90\00:12:24.64
They are not
necessarily the bad guys now,
00:12:24.67\00:12:26.47
there's something
happening in Syria.
00:12:26.51\00:12:27.84
But the Syrian army came
up against Elisha personally,
00:12:27.88\00:12:31.05
wanted to capture him
and he wasn't worried at all.
00:12:31.08\00:12:33.98
Yeah, he wasn't worried...
00:12:34.02\00:12:35.35
His servant was freaked out
of his mind and Elisha prayed,
00:12:35.38\00:12:38.45
opened his eyes
00:12:38.49\00:12:39.82
and then the
servant looks around
00:12:39.85\00:12:41.19
and here the hills...
00:12:41.22\00:12:42.56
He see the forces,
you know, that protecting.
00:12:42.59\00:12:43.93
There were full of
chariots and horsemen...
00:12:43.96\00:12:45.29
Chariots...
00:12:45.33\00:12:46.66
In another words,
00:12:46.70\00:12:48.03
friendly forces
were there to protect.
00:12:48.06\00:12:49.40
Yeah.
00:12:49.43\00:12:50.77
So God is much stronger
than anything, you know.
00:12:50.80\00:12:52.13
I think people of
God have challenges
00:12:52.17\00:12:54.40
but one should not
forget God is always,
00:12:54.44\00:12:58.61
you know, greater and powerful
than any challenges we have.
00:12:58.64\00:13:01.44
Absolutely, ever
a great truth. Amen.
00:13:01.48\00:13:02.94
Let's take a little break
and we will be back shortly.
00:13:02.98\00:13:05.65
Stay with us, and I'll
continue this discussion
00:13:05.68\00:13:07.72
with Amjad Alam.
00:13:07.75\00:13:10.59
Thank you so much.
00:13:10.62\00:13:11.95