Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Amjad Waryam
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000350B
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00:05 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:07 Before the break, 00:08 I was in a great discussion with Amjad. 00:12 I'll miss the rest of your name, 00:13 'cause I'm pronouncing it so badly. 00:15 But, you know, we've been talking about 00:17 religious freedom which... 00:18 there is no question in the liberal west 00:21 and in particular in the United States 00:23 whether it's great constitutional protections 00:26 for religious and other civil freedoms. 00:28 We are in the box seat, but of course, 00:31 you only have to read your daily newspaper 00:33 to know the different things being bounced around 00:36 and with the modern surveillance system and that... 00:37 Yeah. 00:39 You can't take any freedom for granted. 00:41 But as a literature evangelist or door-to-door... 00:45 Door-to-door, yeah. 00:46 Witness there for faith 00:47 using books and magazines and so on. 00:50 You've seen evidence 00:51 that we still have a freedom to witness 00:53 that envy of all, haven't you? 00:54 Yeah, we do have, even, 00:56 see this is the personal given choice, 00:58 they refuse it or they take it, you know, 01:00 but approaching them and just talking to them, 01:02 there is no problem. 01:04 And even you... 01:05 sometime, you know, 01:07 I feel that looking instead of sale 01:09 and looking up... 01:11 looking about the money wise, 01:13 we should look the other aspect. 01:15 There is... 01:16 there are free, you know, the literatures. 01:18 You know, we let people have it and we can pray with them 01:22 and we can talk about with them our religion 01:24 and also about our faith and it is no problem. 01:28 Where that only the potential 01:31 are we create for only the money 01:33 or just for sale thing, that's totally different. 01:37 That becomes very different. I agree with you. 01:39 We need to have an off camera discussion 01:41 because you're getting close to my thinking. 01:43 The sales part of it was a good way 01:47 to make Christian witness like you're self supporting. 01:50 Yeah, self support... 01:51 But there's a good argument now 01:54 things should be given out free. 01:55 Yeah. 01:56 And that a group like Adventist or any other faith based group. 02:00 They could see it as their commitment to communicating 02:04 that they subsidize it 02:06 and obviously when members come in 02:07 as they invariably do... 02:09 This is my... 02:10 Then they will be part of the subsidy. 02:12 So in reality, it can be a self supporting 02:15 or self sustaining system, but to focus only on sales, 02:20 with their electronic media... 02:22 It will effect... 02:23 A new society, it's a little harder 02:25 to get people to pay door-to-door. 02:27 Even it will affect the freedom too, sir. 02:30 Let me just tell you that when you are... 02:34 there are two, three things we do. 02:36 But if, instead of closing 02:38 or reducing or shutting this program, 02:40 I think like, they have pastors, 02:42 they have teachers, they should have colporteurs 02:44 and they should be given books 02:45 and where they can go and just give it to people 02:47 and pray with them. 02:49 Again, using the word colporteur, 02:50 some may have just joined us. 02:51 Literature evangelist. 02:53 A literature... 02:54 Evangelist. 02:55 Evangelist door-to-door... 02:57 Okay. 02:58 Witnessing salesman if you like... 03:00 And then they pray, then they introduce the book 03:01 and they will tell about their faith or about the church. 03:04 Believe me, this number of membership will grow, 03:07 it will, the more people will come to your church, 03:09 they will worship with you, and our organization will grow. 03:12 But nobody is looking to that... 03:14 I know. Well, it's proven, it's not a theoretical. 03:16 That's exactly how 03:18 the Seventh-day Adventist Church 03:20 came into being, 03:21 and it worked big time in my homeland of Australia... 03:23 Exchange of strategies. 03:25 There were no Seventh-day Adventist there in the nearly 03:27 or the mid 1800's. 03:29 And I forgot the year, I think it was like about 1870 or so. 03:35 Three literature evangelists arrived on a boat, 03:39 got off the boat and moved out into the country. 03:41 And within a couple of years, there were churches everywhere, 03:44 the work just came from nothing. 03:45 Yeah, there's nothing. 03:47 And many places even... 03:48 And today, it's actually 03:49 a very self sustaining system there, 03:51 and the largest health food industry 03:54 in the country, 03:55 they run as in the US very big hospital system. 03:59 It's very self sustaining economically. 04:02 Proportionately as many as there are in the US 04:05 is about 50,000 Seventh-day Adventists 04:07 in Australia proper. 04:09 See, I worked in United States, I worked in Thailand also, 04:13 and I see that when you go in the history of freedom 04:16 and also the sharing, you know, that your faith. 04:21 You know, when one lady came from China 04:24 or from Hong Kong started the work in Thailand 04:27 by with the literature ministry from Signs of Time. 04:30 So it started in Thailand the same way. 04:31 Signs of the Time, the magazine they started giving to people. 04:35 This is how and this is how the church begins 04:37 and the hospital begins and everything started. 04:40 So the freedom was there, that's why it happened, 04:42 now freedom is still there, you know, 04:43 that only thing is we need to give different strategies 04:49 and different plans, you know, 04:50 as we need to change a little bit. 04:52 Now, what we need and it's the same, 04:54 whether it's Seventh-day Adventist... 04:55 Or any other, any other. 04:56 Or Lutherans or a country like the United States, 05:01 you need a vision. 05:03 Vision. 05:04 The Bible says, "For lack of vision, 05:05 my people perish." 05:07 Perish. That's what it's in. 05:08 We have a problem... 05:10 Even with religious liberty, 05:11 if you're not taking advantage of it, 05:12 it's a freedom in the abstract. 05:15 We have to prove these things in action. 05:17 I was in ASI, you know, 05:19 that in last year and Pastor Bradshaw, 05:21 you know, that was preaching and he preached a sermon. 05:24 Now, Pastor Bradshaw who has which program, 05:26 I think it's sometimes on this... 05:27 It is Written, you know, It is Written, you know. 05:30 And the sermon, you know, 05:32 and the preaching was so nice and it says, 05:36 you know, I think, we should act what we are. 05:40 We should do what we represent we should do it accordingly. 05:43 So we should remember we are after all church. 05:46 We are businesses. 05:48 What is our main business? 05:49 What is, and this is what we need to do 05:52 to spread the gospel, you know, 05:53 to have evangelism going on in no matter in what form. 05:58 So we need to just look at very seriously 06:01 and we need a vision to be corrected 06:03 and our leadership should be very honest. 06:05 Well, you are a salesman. 06:06 My father was temperance leader in the church, 06:09 but he started off 06:11 as a literature evangelist director, 06:12 and he studied salesmanship. 06:14 And I remember him telling me once, 06:16 first of all he said, one funny saying. 06:19 He says, "You sell the sizzle not the steak." 06:21 You got it? Yes. 06:23 But what he said is you have to believe in something... 06:26 Yeah, believe in. 06:27 You know, I'm not selling a product, I am... 06:30 it's my belief in the product. 06:32 If I believe that this product 06:34 is the greatest thing in the world... 06:36 You can do it. 06:37 That you... 06:39 it's not that I want you to buy it, 06:41 every fiber of my being wants you to experience 06:43 what I'm experiencing. 06:44 That's an easy sell. It is. 06:46 That the idea that, yeah, I'm a business 06:47 and here I'm gonna make a few dollars of it 06:49 and this is a sales pitch. 06:51 People aren't gonna trust you on that. 06:52 And plus... 06:53 But if you are a true believer and I'm doing it 06:56 as you are door-to-door because I respect you, 06:59 I want to improve your life, I want to help you. 07:01 Yeah, that's where you... 07:03 Who's gonna object to that? Nobody. 07:05 In an individual instances many other dynamics 07:07 but as a relationship issue, I don't care 07:10 whether it's Christians talking to Muslims, 07:12 or Buddhists to Hindus. 07:14 They may not accept it in end 07:15 but they are not gonna be offended by it. 07:17 Your message... 07:18 It's not an offense to want to help your brother. 07:20 Sure. 07:21 Your message and your canvas 07:22 should be that you are doing favor 07:24 and it is true you are doing favor. 07:25 If you are bringing health book in somebody's life 07:27 and they will learn to keep... 07:29 Not just a favor, but that's your privilege to do the favor. 07:30 It is. 07:32 It is a privilege also, you know, 07:34 and if you are praying with somebody 07:36 and if you are sharing Bible with somebody, 07:39 you know, it strengthens their faith and it helps them. 07:42 It spiritually heals, believe me people, 07:44 and when they read health books 07:46 is also physically effects them. 07:48 Yeah. Helps them. 07:50 And lifestyle change, you know, that life changes, 07:52 you know that and lot of good experience we hear. 07:55 So, again, there is a freedom. 07:59 There is a freedom, you know, we can still, you know, 08:01 can do a lot. 08:02 We can accomplish a lot. 08:04 We have to thank God and... 08:05 We thank God. 08:06 With Religious Liberty work, with that big conference 08:09 or big rallies around the world, 08:11 thanking the authorities and the society 08:13 for granting the freedoms. 08:15 That's all true. Yeah, it is true. 08:16 But there's no, it's still not a great advantage 08:19 unless we use the freedom right, 08:20 and that's what you're saying. 08:21 A lady from India... 08:23 Act on it. 08:24 I met a lady from India, she is... 08:27 I did not know what religion she had it, 08:29 but I was trying to sell her health books. 08:32 And she said that, when she looked at the price, 08:36 our books are really pricy, you know, sometime and people, 08:39 no, no, no, she doesn't want to buy. 08:41 But I said, "It's good for you." 08:43 And I convinced her 08:45 because I said, "It's like a ministry, 08:47 we do evangelism and these are books printed 08:50 for your good health." 08:51 And she refused me totally 08:53 and before I was almost leaving her house 08:56 and I said to her, "Do you have any health issues?" 09:00 She said, "Yes, I just had a heart attack last year." 09:03 And I said, "My books will tell you 09:06 how you can improve your health." 09:08 And she said, "You think this can help me?" 09:10 And I showed few pages like from these fruits, vegetable, 09:15 how they can improve and, you know, she bought it. 09:18 And probably it was a bargain at that 09:20 because she would pay hundreds of dollars 09:23 for some drug or something. 09:24 Maybe in the beginning I talked about the price and that thing, 09:28 but when I told her 09:29 this will help you in your health 09:31 and it will improve your health. 09:32 Believe me she just, she said, "Oh, this is good for me." 09:35 So anything we do good to others, 09:38 it will appeal to them. 09:39 There's a problem, well, not a problem, 09:41 a challenge that I face with Liberty. 09:43 You know, we know the value of this magazine 09:45 to communicate to top leaders 09:47 about the principles of religious liberty. 09:49 And I'm reduced sometimes 09:51 to try and to sell subscription, 09:52 $6 for a year. 09:53 Six dollars... It's an ice-cream price. 09:55 Ice-cream price. 09:56 Would I... We get more support 09:58 if it was $4 or would it go down 09:59 if it was 10. 10:01 But it's, the money is almost immaterial. 10:03 It's nothing... 10:04 If you believe in it, 10:06 if what it represents catches you, 10:09 doesn't really matter whether it's 10 or 5 or 20, 10:12 I'm sure if it was a thousand, you know, it's a disconnect. 10:14 It's just a belief and when the people see... 10:16 But within the normal level, it's not a money issue, 10:19 it's what value it has for you and what commitment the person 10:22 that's promoting it has. 10:25 And that seems to be lacking a little bit lately. 10:28 But this can be also if people see that 10:31 when you tell them 10:32 that how much knowledge it's bringing 10:34 and how much information it's bringing. 10:36 They will... 10:38 six dollars is nothing. 10:39 No. It's the value added. 10:41 It's the value added, yeah. 10:44 Now, I think, you are true believer in this 10:46 and I can tell that you've worked it out 10:49 at the street level 10:50 because that's the nitty-gritty of everything, 10:54 person to person interaction. 10:55 We have a lot of experience. 10:57 Different kind of people we meet, 10:58 you know, every day, you know. 10:59 Can you think of another one, 11:01 I love stories from literature evangelists 11:04 and you gave that one of that woman, 11:06 can you think of another one 11:08 where somebody responded favorably 11:09 and it helped... 11:11 Yeah, because lot of people... 11:12 Spiritually vindicated. 11:13 And response to their children material, 11:15 you know, the books, you know. 11:16 And a lot of people are, you know, 11:19 worrying about the good of their children, you know, 11:21 that they want their children character 11:23 to be improved. 11:25 One thing I say to mothers 11:27 and when they don't buy, I said, 11:29 "We are saving you your future tears. 11:32 Our books can help and build good moral 11:35 and religious character." 11:38 This is the reason they are convinced 11:40 and they buy always. 11:44 It's not our natural that in the US constitution, 11:47 the freedom of speech and freedom of religion 11:49 go hand in hand. 11:51 Because as Christians particularly, 11:54 we are compelled to share 11:57 what we have seen and what we have experienced. 12:00 A few years ago, I saw a... 12:04 sort of an art film done in Canada 12:07 called Jesus of Montreal 12:09 and it was contemporized and as part of it, 12:12 there was a morality play about the resurrection of Christ. 12:15 And the characters headed off into the audience 12:18 saying to them, "He's risen, He's risen, He's risen," 12:21 spreading the word feverishly and compulsively. 12:25 That is the gospel commission 12:28 and it requires religious liberty. 12:31 It requires civil openness 12:34 and it requires an ongoing commitment 12:37 from people of faith to make it work. 12:39 Religious liberty that's passive is nothing. 12:43 Freedom of speech 12:44 that doesn't speak out is nothing. 12:47 And I think, it's contingent upon all people 12:50 that value their faith and value freedom 12:53 to speak out endlessly. 12:56 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2017-04-06