Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
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Before the break,
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I was in a great
discussion with Amjad.
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I'll miss the rest of your name,
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'cause I'm
pronouncing it so badly.
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But, you know,
we've been talking about
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religious freedom which...
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there is no
question in the liberal west
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and in particular
in the United States
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whether it's great
constitutional protections
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for religious and
other civil freedoms.
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We are in the box
seat, but of course,
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you only have to
read your daily newspaper
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to know the different
things being bounced around
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and with the modern
surveillance system and that...
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Yeah.
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You can't take any
freedom for granted.
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But as a literature
evangelist or door-to-door...
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Door-to-door, yeah.
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Witness there for faith
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using books and
magazines and so on.
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You've seen evidence
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that we still have
a freedom to witness
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that envy of all, haven't you?
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Yeah, we do have, even,
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see this is the
personal given choice,
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they refuse it or
they take it, you know,
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but approaching them
and just talking to them,
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there is no problem.
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And even you...
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sometime, you know,
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I feel that
looking instead of sale
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and looking up...
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looking about the money wise,
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we should look the other aspect.
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There is...
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there are free, you
know, the literatures.
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You know, we let people have
it and we can pray with them
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and we can talk about
with them our religion
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and also about our
faith and it is no problem.
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Where that only the potential
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are we create for only the money
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or just for sale thing,
that's totally different.
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That becomes very
different. I agree with you.
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We need to have an
off camera discussion
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because you're
getting close to my thinking.
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The sales part
of it was a good way
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to make Christian witness
like you're self supporting.
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Yeah, self support...
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But there's a good argument now
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things should be given out free.
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Yeah.
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And that a group like Adventist
or any other faith based group.
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They could see it as their
commitment to communicating
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that they subsidize it
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and obviously
when members come in
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as they invariably do...
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This is my...
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Then they will be
part of the subsidy.
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So in reality, it
can be a self supporting
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or self sustaining system,
but to focus only on sales,
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with their electronic media...
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It will effect...
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A new society,
it's a little harder
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to get people to
pay door-to-door.
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Even it will affect
the freedom too, sir.
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Let me just tell
you that when you are...
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there are two,
three things we do.
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But if, instead of closing
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or reducing or
shutting this program,
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I think like, they have pastors,
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they have teachers,
they should have colporteurs
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and they should be given books
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and where they can go
and just give it to people
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and pray with them.
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Again, using
the word colporteur,
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some may have just joined us.
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Literature evangelist.
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A literature...
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Evangelist.
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Evangelist door-to-door...
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Okay.
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Witnessing
salesman if you like...
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And then they pray,
then they introduce the book
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and they will tell about
their faith or about the church.
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Believe me, this number
of membership will grow,
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it will, the more people
will come to your church,
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they will worship with you,
and our organization will grow.
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But nobody is looking to that...
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I know. Well, it's
proven, it's not a theoretical.
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That's exactly how
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the Seventh-day Adventist Church
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came into being,
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and it worked big time in
my homeland of Australia...
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Exchange of strategies.
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There were no Seventh-day
Adventist there in the nearly
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or the mid 1800's.
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And I forgot the year, I think
it was like about 1870 or so.
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Three literature
evangelists arrived on a boat,
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got off the boat and
moved out into the country.
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And within a couple of years,
there were churches everywhere,
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the work just came from nothing.
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Yeah, there's nothing.
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And many places even...
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And today, it's actually
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a very self
sustaining system there,
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and the largest
health food industry
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in the country,
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they run as in the US
very big hospital system.
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It's very self
sustaining economically.
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Proportionately as
many as there are in the US
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is about 50,000
Seventh-day Adventists
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in Australia proper.
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See, I worked in United States,
I worked in Thailand also,
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and I see that when you
go in the history of freedom
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and also the sharing,
you know, that your faith.
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You know, when one
lady came from China
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or from Hong Kong
started the work in Thailand
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by with the literature
ministry from Signs of Time.
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So it started in
Thailand the same way.
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Signs of the Time, the magazine
they started giving to people.
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This is how and this
is how the church begins
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and the hospital
begins and everything started.
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So the freedom was
there, that's why it happened,
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now freedom is
still there, you know,
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that only thing is we need
to give different strategies
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and different plans, you know,
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as we need to
change a little bit.
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Now, what we need
and it's the same,
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whether it's
Seventh-day Adventist...
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Or any other, any other.
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Or Lutherans or a
country like the United States,
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you need a vision.
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Vision.
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The Bible says,
"For lack of vision,
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my people perish."
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Perish. That's what it's in.
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We have a problem...
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Even with religious liberty,
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if you're not
taking advantage of it,
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it's a freedom in the abstract.
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We have to prove
these things in action.
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I was in ASI, you know,
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that in last year
and Pastor Bradshaw,
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you know, that was preaching
and he preached a sermon.
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Now, Pastor Bradshaw
who has which program,
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I think it's
sometimes on this...
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It is Written, you
know, It is Written, you know.
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And the sermon, you know,
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and the preaching
was so nice and it says,
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you know, I think, we
should act what we are.
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We should do what we represent
we should do it accordingly.
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So we should remember
we are after all church.
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We are businesses.
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What is our main business?
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What is, and this
is what we need to do
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to spread the gospel, you know,
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to have evangelism going
on in no matter in what form.
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So we need to just
look at very seriously
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and we need a
vision to be corrected
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and our leadership
should be very honest.
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Well, you are a salesman.
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My father was
temperance leader in the church,
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but he started off
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as a literature
evangelist director,
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and he studied salesmanship.
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And I remember
him telling me once,
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first of all he
said, one funny saying.
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He says, "You sell
the sizzle not the steak."
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You got it? Yes.
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But what he said is you
have to believe in something...
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Yeah, believe in.
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You know, I'm not
selling a product, I am...
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it's my belief in the product.
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If I believe that this product
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is the greatest
thing in the world...
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You can do it.
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That you...
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it's not that I
want you to buy it,
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every fiber of my
being wants you to experience
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what I'm experiencing.
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That's an easy sell. It is.
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That the idea that,
yeah, I'm a business
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and here I'm gonna
make a few dollars of it
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and this is a sales pitch.
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People aren't
gonna trust you on that.
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And plus...
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But if you are a true
believer and I'm doing it
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as you are door-to-door
because I respect you,
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I want to improve your
life, I want to help you.
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Yeah, that's where you...
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Who's gonna
object to that? Nobody.
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In an individual
instances many other dynamics
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but as a
relationship issue, I don't care
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whether it's
Christians talking to Muslims,
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or Buddhists to Hindus.
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They may not accept it in end
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but they are not
gonna be offended by it.
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Your message...
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It's not an offense to
want to help your brother.
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Sure.
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Your message and your canvas
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should be that
you are doing favor
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and it is true
you are doing favor.
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If you are bringing
health book in somebody's life
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and they will learn to keep...
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Not just a favor, but that's
your privilege to do the favor.
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It is.
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It is a
privilege also, you know,
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and if you are
praying with somebody
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and if you are
sharing Bible with somebody,
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you know, it strengthens
their faith and it helps them.
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It spiritually
heals, believe me people,
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and when they read health books
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is also physically effects them.
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Yeah. Helps them.
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And lifestyle change,
you know, that life changes,
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you know that and lot
of good experience we hear.
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So, again, there is a freedom.
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There is a freedom, you
know, we can still, you know,
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can do a lot.
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We can accomplish a lot.
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We have to thank God and...
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We thank God.
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With Religious Liberty
work, with that big conference
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or big rallies around the world,
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thanking the
authorities and the society
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for granting the freedoms.
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That's all true.
Yeah, it is true.
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But there's no, it's
still not a great advantage
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unless we use the freedom right,
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and that's what you're saying.
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A lady from India...
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Act on it.
00:08:23.20\00:08:24.53
I met a lady
from India, she is...
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I did not know what
religion she had it,
00:08:27.20\00:08:29.77
but I was trying to
sell her health books.
00:08:29.80\00:08:32.87
And she said that, when
she looked at the price,
00:08:32.91\00:08:36.38
our books are really pricy,
you know, sometime and people,
00:08:36.41\00:08:39.58
no, no, no, she
doesn't want to buy.
00:08:39.61\00:08:41.28
But I said, "It's good for you."
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And I convinced her
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because I said,
"It's like a ministry,
00:08:45.59\00:08:47.39
we do evangelism and
these are books printed
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for your good health."
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And she refused me totally
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and before I was
almost leaving her house
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and I said to her, "Do
you have any health issues?"
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She said, "Yes, I just
had a heart attack last year."
00:09:00.04\00:09:03.04
And I said, "My
books will tell you
00:09:03.07\00:09:06.34
how you can
improve your health."
00:09:06.37\00:09:08.41
And she said, "You
think this can help me?"
00:09:08.44\00:09:10.75
And I showed few pages like
from these fruits, vegetable,
00:09:10.78\00:09:15.35
how they can improve
and, you know, she bought it.
00:09:15.38\00:09:18.05
And probably it
was a bargain at that
00:09:18.09\00:09:20.86
because she would
pay hundreds of dollars
00:09:20.89\00:09:23.26
for some drug or something.
00:09:23.29\00:09:24.79
Maybe in the beginning I talked
about the price and that thing,
00:09:24.83\00:09:28.06
but when I told her
00:09:28.10\00:09:29.43
this will help
you in your health
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and it will improve your health.
00:09:31.17\00:09:32.73
Believe me she just, she
said, "Oh, this is good for me."
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So anything we
do good to others,
00:09:35.77\00:09:38.21
it will appeal to them.
00:09:38.24\00:09:39.87
There's a problem,
well, not a problem,
00:09:39.91\00:09:41.34
a challenge that
I face with Liberty.
00:09:41.38\00:09:43.48
You know, we know the
value of this magazine
00:09:43.51\00:09:45.51
to communicate to top leaders
00:09:45.55\00:09:47.45
about the principles
of religious liberty.
00:09:47.48\00:09:49.78
And I'm reduced sometimes
00:09:49.82\00:09:51.15
to try and to sell subscription,
00:09:51.19\00:09:52.55
$6 for a year.
00:09:52.59\00:09:53.92
Six dollars...
It's an ice-cream price.
00:09:53.96\00:09:55.29
Ice-cream price.
00:09:55.32\00:09:56.66
Would I... We get more support
00:09:56.69\00:09:58.13
if it was $4 or would it go down
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if it was 10.
00:09:59.76\00:10:01.10
But it's, the money
is almost immaterial.
00:10:01.13\00:10:03.37
It's nothing...
00:10:03.40\00:10:04.73
If you believe in it,
00:10:04.77\00:10:06.10
if what it
represents catches you,
00:10:06.13\00:10:09.37
doesn't really matter
whether it's 10 or 5 or 20,
00:10:09.40\00:10:12.14
I'm sure if it was a thousand,
you know, it's a disconnect.
00:10:12.17\00:10:14.54
It's just a belief
and when the people see...
00:10:14.58\00:10:16.28
But within the normal
level, it's not a money issue,
00:10:16.31\00:10:19.15
it's what value it has for you
and what commitment the person
00:10:19.18\00:10:22.88
that's promoting it has.
00:10:22.92\00:10:24.99
And that seems to be
lacking a little bit lately.
00:10:25.02\00:10:28.29
But this can be
also if people see that
00:10:28.32\00:10:31.23
when you tell them
00:10:31.26\00:10:32.86
that how much
knowledge it's bringing
00:10:32.89\00:10:34.66
and how much
information it's bringing.
00:10:34.70\00:10:36.77
They will...
00:10:36.80\00:10:38.13
six dollars is nothing.
00:10:38.17\00:10:39.50
No. It's the value added.
00:10:39.53\00:10:41.14
It's the value added, yeah.
00:10:41.17\00:10:44.31
Now, I think, you
are true believer in this
00:10:44.34\00:10:46.61
and I can tell that
you've worked it out
00:10:46.64\00:10:49.11
at the street level
00:10:49.14\00:10:50.95
because that's the
nitty-gritty of everything,
00:10:50.98\00:10:54.08
person to person interaction.
00:10:54.12\00:10:55.62
We have a lot of experience.
00:10:55.65\00:10:56.99
Different kind
of people we meet,
00:10:57.02\00:10:58.45
you know, every day, you know.
00:10:58.49\00:10:59.82
Can you think of another one,
00:10:59.85\00:11:01.22
I love stories from
literature evangelists
00:11:01.26\00:11:04.66
and you gave that
one of that woman,
00:11:04.69\00:11:06.86
can you think of another one
00:11:06.90\00:11:08.23
where somebody
responded favorably
00:11:08.26\00:11:09.60
and it helped...
00:11:09.63\00:11:10.97
Yeah, because lot of people...
00:11:11.00\00:11:12.33
Spiritually vindicated.
00:11:12.37\00:11:13.70
And response to
their children material,
00:11:13.74\00:11:15.47
you know, the books, you know.
00:11:15.50\00:11:16.94
And a lot of
people are, you know,
00:11:16.97\00:11:19.17
worrying about the good
of their children, you know,
00:11:19.21\00:11:21.88
that they want
their children character
00:11:21.91\00:11:23.85
to be improved.
00:11:23.88\00:11:25.21
One thing I say to mothers
00:11:25.25\00:11:27.02
and when they don't buy, I said,
00:11:27.05\00:11:29.48
"We are saving
you your future tears.
00:11:29.52\00:11:32.05
Our books can help
and build good moral
00:11:32.09\00:11:35.12
and religious character."
00:11:35.16\00:11:38.29
This is the
reason they are convinced
00:11:38.33\00:11:39.96
and they buy always.
00:11:40.00\00:11:44.73
It's not our natural
that in the US constitution,
00:11:44.77\00:11:47.90
the freedom of speech
and freedom of religion
00:11:47.94\00:11:49.70
go hand in hand.
00:11:49.74\00:11:51.94
Because as
Christians particularly,
00:11:51.97\00:11:54.68
we are compelled to share
00:11:54.71\00:11:57.71
what we have seen and
what we have experienced.
00:11:57.75\00:12:00.42
A few years ago, I saw a...
00:12:00.45\00:12:04.62
sort of an art
film done in Canada
00:12:04.65\00:12:07.52
called Jesus of Montreal
00:12:07.56\00:12:09.32
and it was
contemporized and as part of it,
00:12:09.36\00:12:11.99
there was a morality play about
the resurrection of Christ.
00:12:12.03\00:12:15.60
And the characters
headed off into the audience
00:12:15.63\00:12:18.70
saying to them, "He's
risen, He's risen, He's risen,"
00:12:18.73\00:12:21.87
spreading the word
feverishly and compulsively.
00:12:21.90\00:12:25.74
That is the gospel commission
00:12:25.77\00:12:28.38
and it requires
religious liberty.
00:12:28.41\00:12:31.01
It requires civil openness
00:12:31.05\00:12:34.48
and it requires
an ongoing commitment
00:12:34.52\00:12:37.05
from people of
faith to make it work.
00:12:37.09\00:12:39.62
Religious liberty
that's passive is nothing.
00:12:39.65\00:12:42.99
Freedom of speech
00:12:43.02\00:12:44.36
that doesn't
speak out is nothing.
00:12:44.39\00:12:47.43
And I think, it's
contingent upon all people
00:12:47.46\00:12:50.73
that value their
faith and value freedom
00:12:50.77\00:12:53.23
to speak out endlessly.
00:12:53.27\00:12:56.81
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:12:56.84\00:12:59.94