Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Amjad Waryam
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000350A
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00:26 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:28 This is a program 00:30 that we've been doing now for several years. 00:33 The topic of this program is Religious Liberty, 00:37 issues, analysis, and discussion 00:41 both from the US and around the world. 00:43 My name is Lincoln Steed, editor of Liberty Magazine. 00:46 And my guest for this program is Amjad Waryam Alam. 00:51 Yeah. 00:53 And even not reading it well. 00:54 I think I'm getting more familiar with your name. 00:55 We've done a couple of previous interviews. 00:57 You're doing well. You're doing well. 00:58 Had some discussions. 01:00 You had a wide experience, you're a literature evangelist, 01:04 sometimes part of the year, 01:06 you're a regular evangelist 01:09 even back in your homeland of Pakistan, other times, 01:12 I guess a vocalist, a singer, and a long time Adventist. 01:18 We're on a program, 01:19 talking about religious liberty. 01:21 How do you see religious liberty? 01:23 What is its importance and how does it work? 01:26 What is it? What is this? 01:27 In United States... 01:28 It's like a song, 01:30 "What is this thing called love?" 01:31 What is this thing called religious liberty? 01:33 I think we have lot of freedom in United States, 01:36 only thing is we are not making use of it, you know. 01:39 And we, whereas we have a good chance of our, 01:43 you know, for our churches to grow, our, our... 01:47 especially evangelism through publication, 01:49 through printed materials. 01:51 For example, I just wanted to share with you. 01:54 Even now, that students 01:56 when they work as colporteur or literature evangelist, 02:01 they are going door-to-door and they get response. 02:05 And in that freedom they have, even people don't buy, 02:10 they leave a sign, a glow, you know, the small, 02:15 you know that... 02:16 A little pamphlet. 02:17 A little pamphlet, you know that. 02:19 And people receive it 02:20 and many lives change even from that too. 02:22 And look at the freedom, they can talk to somebody, 02:26 they can talk about, and they can pray. 02:28 And even they are welcome in their homes, 02:31 but many people do not even respond also. 02:34 But generally, the freedom is there to approach people. 02:37 There is no problem, I don't see any problem. 02:41 But you might not even be aware of this some years ago, 02:46 I guess, I would say about ten years ago, 02:48 there was a strong move in many different communities 02:51 across the US to restrict 02:53 any sort of door-to-door solicitation or selling. 02:57 And there were local ordinances, 03:00 there were people arrested. 03:02 And the challenge 03:05 thankfully went up to the Supreme Court 03:06 was brought by the Jehovah's Witnesses. 03:10 And the Supreme Court endorsed what is in the constitution. 03:14 "Yes, you have a right to go door-to-door and talk to people 03:18 in this case about your faith." 03:20 But for that Supreme Court action, 03:22 what you were saying is, "We have the freedom." 03:23 It would have been gone. 03:25 Yeah, would have been gone. 03:26 And even some places still, there's a... 03:28 Oh, there's difficulties. 03:30 There is a sticker 03:32 or you can say there's written that, 03:35 "No soliciting." 03:36 It mean no approaching. 03:38 Matching the sort of netherworld of their rights 03:40 and their rights and so. 03:41 But we had a case not too long ago, 03:43 where one of these groups of young people 03:46 during the summer selling mega books. 03:48 I know what it is that, magazine books. 03:50 People think mega, they're not mega, they're big. 03:52 But they are about four times thicker than Liberty Magazine 03:55 and the same trim size. 03:57 And they're on health pro topics 03:59 or another one on the life of Christ 04:01 and so on. 04:02 And they sell this, and this group were down south. 04:04 I know the town, but I won't mention it. 04:07 And the local police chief pulls up, 04:09 arrested their leader. 04:10 He was in jail for 24 hours. 04:13 And action was brought against them. 04:14 And in the end, when the laws were made clear to that town, 04:17 they were at least sent on their way. 04:19 But there was an intend to restrict and harass. 04:22 It is also sometimes... 04:23 And that's not totally unusual. 04:25 It can happen. It can happen. 04:26 You know why it happens to us sometime too? 04:29 If somebody complains, 04:30 police even come and talk to you, 04:32 and they give you warning. 04:34 And they, "Okay, you're warned and next time when you go, 04:37 then you're in trouble more." 04:38 It's may be their privacy, you know, 04:41 that they are very careful. 04:44 And if somebody complains, 04:45 you can get in serious troubles, you know. 04:47 Yeah. 04:48 And, you know, I understand that. 04:50 I get nefarious groups and people coming around. 04:55 Sometimes you think that 04:57 they're not really selling anything, 04:58 they're casing out the neighborhood. 05:00 So you get a little suspicious. 05:01 Yeah, little suspicious... 05:02 It's like everything on religious liberty. 05:04 This is a balancing of rights, 05:06 but there should be an overall commitment 05:08 to allowing people to share. 05:10 Share their faith and discuss faith issues with others. 05:14 I think that there is a very good like a way 05:17 to approach is like student wear 05:19 same kind of T-shirts or uniform site 05:22 and even Review and Herald or Pacific Press at the moment, 05:26 they issue ID card. 05:27 These are the two publishing houses that we had 05:29 in the Seventh-day Adventist church here. 05:30 Oh, yeah. 05:32 There are two, Review and Herald or Pacific Press, 05:33 you know, and in that there's a department 05:35 called Home Health Education 05:36 that deals with colporteurs, you know. 05:38 And they issue their ID cards. Book salesman. 05:40 Book salesman. 05:42 Very few Adventists or otherwise will know 05:45 what that term means nowadays, I'm sure. 05:46 Yeah, yeah. 05:48 And now they issue the ID card which is very good to have, 05:50 you know, when people see your badge, your ID card, 05:53 or your uniform, 05:55 then they will see that 05:56 some profession people are going. 05:58 Otherwise, they are very careful, you know. 05:59 So the approach is very important. 06:01 Maybe we need to sell sort of Girl Scout cookies 06:03 with Bible text on them. 06:05 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 06:06 No, because there's certain thing like that 06:08 the people feel are well endorsed 06:10 by a larger group, and there's no resistance. 06:13 And there is a problem I feel like, 06:15 again it's not nice to say, but our church should hold, 06:20 you know, some kind of a program 06:22 or some kind of like promotional time in different, 06:27 in working days, 06:28 especially to inviting people to look at our books, you know, 06:32 our own material, you know. 06:33 Sometimes we are just approaching all other 06:36 and neglecting our own, 06:37 you know that people don't know 06:40 that church here supports or organization support, 06:42 it helps a lot. 06:44 And why not, this... 06:45 I was trying to tell you the freedom we have for like, 06:48 we have churches, colleges, universities, hospitals, 06:52 but this is all is to bring honor and glory 06:55 to Lord Jesus Christ. 06:57 So when we cannot promote Jesus, 07:00 we cannot promote our own, you know, what you say that, 07:06 denominational, 07:08 you know, structure and we cannot explain people. 07:10 So I think we don't have freedom inside, 07:14 we have freedom outside. 07:16 Well, that's a secondary thing. Yeah. 07:18 Within a certain group, and even... 07:21 I have questions on this all the time. 07:23 If there are doctrinal disputes within a church, 07:26 that's very unfortunate 07:28 and it can even bring disrepute 07:29 on what spiritual commitment that church stands for. 07:34 But that's not narrowly speaking 07:36 of religious liberty issue 07:38 because as the lawyers will say, 07:40 "A church within the church is free association. 07:42 You're not compelled to anything." 07:45 But that's very regrettable. 07:46 But what we need to talk about is in the larger... 07:48 But opportunities are there in large overall... 07:51 We're not taking advantage, you are right. 07:53 Yeah, we are not taking advantage. 07:54 But you are the one that is trying to take advantage 07:57 on out and around. 08:00 You see firsthand that the United States 08:04 where you are working does have societal commitment 08:07 to religious liberty. 08:08 You don't have, see gross examples 08:11 of restrictions of your right to witness, right? 08:14 I was at the airport last night. 08:16 And there was a lady, a couple sitting. 08:19 And I just introduced myself. 08:20 I'm a Seventh-day Adventist, 08:22 and I'm a missionary evangelist, 08:24 you know, and I have a ministry called God of Life. 08:28 And I told them, and they were very nice. 08:32 And they were from Missouri and St. Louis. 08:36 And they said, "Oh, yes." 08:38 And I told them about 3ABN and they didn't mind it. 08:41 And I said, "Can I give you my brochure?" 08:43 I was keep further. 08:44 And I took a brochure from my bag 08:46 and give it to them, God of Life. 08:47 And she read it, and she said, "Thank you very much." 08:50 And she kept it. 08:51 So I see that it's... 08:52 there is at the airport even, you don't have resistance, 08:56 you know, you can still talk to people. 08:58 That's a wonderful thing. 08:59 I can't say that's... 09:00 That's a freedom, you know that. 09:02 Yes. Liberty. 09:03 Beyond the law, 09:05 that's a freedom created in the society 09:06 and openness. 09:07 And I don't think 09:09 even in my homeland of Australia 09:10 that quite exists, 09:11 the legal freedoms of religion are equal to the US. 09:16 If people don't like you to talk about religion, 09:18 so they might spit back at you. 09:20 Don't bother me, so and so. 09:22 Get away, you know, they could use their freedom. 09:23 Yeah, there is always a case. 09:25 That happens a bit here, 09:26 but in the US to give it a full due, 09:29 you can talk religion with most people. 09:31 They will not automatically be offended. 09:33 I think general rule, 09:35 I see the freedom of this religious liberty of freedom 09:40 is that I learned that from my friend 09:45 that if we talk something good, 09:48 I think people will not react 09:50 and religious have something good 09:52 to give it to the society. 09:53 Yeah, giving it in the right attitude, 09:55 not forcing religion on someone... 09:56 Yeah, yeah, but not forcing... 09:57 But it's one human being that cares for the other, 09:59 here I'm sharing something with them. 10:01 And there's a way to approach, I said in the beginning also. 10:03 How you approach to people? 10:05 Are you just telling them, "Oh, we are just, 10:09 like a Seventh-day Adventist, or we are religious people, 10:11 you should follow us." 10:12 No, you show Christ like character 10:15 that people are get attracted to you. 10:17 You should have your personality built up enough 10:20 that influence why people should see that. 10:24 And that helps also but the freedom is there. 10:27 We need to take good advantage of that, I would say. 10:30 Yeah. 10:31 What do you think we can do, you know, 10:33 you're in this culture now. 10:35 What can people in western countries 10:38 and in particular the US do to encourage 10:41 and continue a commitment to religious freedom 10:44 and religious openness? 10:47 I feel that evangelism is a one way. 10:50 Any form of evangelism, 10:52 you do it through literature evangelist 10:54 or through the meetings or through the gospel, 10:57 singing, preaching. 10:59 If we do that, you know, 11:00 that I think the work will finish soon. 11:04 And even specially encourage the young people... 11:07 Well, you're using the term maybe regular 3ABN people know, 11:12 but I need to explain that. 11:13 You say the work will finish soon. 11:15 It's an interesting fact of Christianity in general, 11:18 and even when I look to other religions like Islam, 11:21 that there's a sense of the end of the human story 11:25 where it goes to another phase. 11:27 And in the Bible, I read that after things have declined 11:31 and the principles of rebellion to God's system, 11:36 once they've worked through 11:38 that God will come and set things right. 11:40 And so we're working toward that grand point, 11:43 aren't we, when you said the work will finish. 11:45 Seventh-day Adventists, we are waiting 11:47 for second coming of Jesus Christ. 11:49 And we've been given a gospel commission 11:51 to spread the word far and wide. 11:53 And when that's done, Christ will come. 11:55 Yeah, Matthew 24:14 said that, 11:59 "This gospel of kingdom 12:00 shall be preached to the whole world, 12:02 to the all world, then shall end come." 12:04 So that is what I was mean to say that. 12:10 I'm jumping back to your homeland of Pakistan. 12:12 But does that help you in dealing with Muslims, 12:15 because I know Islam has this same concept... 12:17 People read about Bible. 12:18 People... 12:20 But Islam has the same concept of the end of the world, 12:22 and of a setting everything right, 12:24 and Muhammad and Jesus, and the 12th Imam, 12:28 the whole heavenly host come back and settle things. 12:29 Let me just tell you something. 12:31 Muslim people do believe that we have the Holy Book. 12:34 They respect Bible. 12:36 And they believe in the Bible, you know, I feel that, 12:40 because they think and they believe 12:45 that we have the Holy Book. 12:47 And Jesus Christ is a prophet. 12:50 Oh, they accept him as a prophet, 12:51 but not in the same fullness. 12:53 We believe it. 12:54 Let's take a break and come back 12:55 and continue this discussion. 12:57 We'll take a break now and be back shortly. 12:59 Stay with us. |
Revised 2017-04-06