Welcome back to
the Liberty insider
00:00:05.13\00:00:06.84
before the break with
guest Amjad Waryam Alam,
00:00:06.87\00:00:11.14
a very interesting gentleman
who has dedicated his life
00:00:11.17\00:00:15.14
to projecting his
faith through singing,
00:00:15.18\00:00:18.98
through literature distribution,
00:00:19.01\00:00:21.32
and through
direct witness through,
00:00:21.35\00:00:24.39
what we would call
evangelistic top campaigns.
00:00:24.42\00:00:27.86
So I've been, I've
been talking to you
00:00:27.89\00:00:29.22
and trying to set a backdrop
00:00:29.26\00:00:31.53
but what got my
interest is as a Pakistani
00:00:31.56\00:00:34.20
or of Pakistani origin,
00:00:34.23\00:00:35.90
via way of
Thailand and now to the US.
00:00:35.93\00:00:40.24
You've taken it
00:00:40.27\00:00:41.60
as a special responsibility
of yours to go back
00:00:41.64\00:00:45.87
and to share with
your fellow Pakistanis,
00:00:45.91\00:00:49.14
haven't you?
00:00:49.18\00:00:50.51
Yup, Lincoln, you know that
00:00:50.55\00:00:51.88
many people
sometime don't know that
00:00:51.91\00:00:54.28
there are
Christians in Pakistan.
00:00:54.32\00:00:56.65
We are minority, and
there are about almost,
00:00:56.69\00:01:01.59
people are almost close
to 5% Christians in Pakistan.
00:01:01.62\00:01:05.19
Of the population? Yeah.
00:01:05.23\00:01:06.56
What is the
population of Pakistan?
00:01:06.59\00:01:07.93
You know how many million?
00:01:07.96\00:01:09.30
Well, it's heavily
populated, 200 million almost.
00:01:09.33\00:01:12.00
Yes, absolutely.
00:01:12.03\00:01:13.37
It's lot of
people. Large country.
00:01:13.40\00:01:15.27
Not as big as
India next door, is it?
00:01:15.30\00:01:16.84
Yeah, India is bigger.
00:01:16.87\00:01:18.34
India, I think is the third,
00:01:18.37\00:01:19.71
the second largest
population of the world,
00:01:19.74\00:01:21.34
isn't it, after China.
00:01:21.38\00:01:22.91
Pakistan is also
heavily populated.
00:01:22.94\00:01:24.91
Pakistan, yeah.
00:01:24.95\00:01:26.28
So 5% of the population
which is lot of people,
00:01:26.31\00:01:29.52
not a high
percentage but a lot of people.
00:01:29.55\00:01:31.15
It's still lot of people.
00:01:31.19\00:01:32.55
And there are other
minorities, even within Islam,
00:01:32.59\00:01:34.69
I know there are some
interesting minorities
00:01:34.72\00:01:36.19
I've had on this program,
00:01:36.22\00:01:38.93
one of the leaders
of the Ahmadiyya Muslims
00:01:38.96\00:01:41.76
who have a difficult time
00:01:41.80\00:01:43.80
with the
mainstream Muslim community
00:01:43.83\00:01:46.20
because they are
seen as sort of heretical.
00:01:46.23\00:01:49.50
Yeah, Pakistan, in
Pakistan Christians still,
00:01:49.54\00:01:53.01
I feel they have a freedom,
government has no problem.
00:01:53.04\00:01:57.15
we do have evangelism,
we do have our churches.
00:01:57.18\00:02:00.62
Even, you know,
00:02:00.65\00:02:02.05
we have our Seventh-day
Adventist hospital too,
00:02:02.08\00:02:04.45
if you see that.
00:02:04.49\00:02:05.82
In Karachi,
isn't that? Oh, yeah.
00:02:05.85\00:02:07.19
Karachi Adventist hospital
that's where I work, you know.
00:02:07.22\00:02:10.33
And that shows, you know,
00:02:10.36\00:02:12.49
that on a government
level there is no problem,
00:02:12.53\00:02:15.46
you know, that we have freedom
of having evangelist meetings
00:02:15.50\00:02:21.10
even outside in open grounds.
00:02:21.14\00:02:23.34
Well, you know, it's
interesting you said that,
00:02:23.37\00:02:25.14
and I'm glad you
did because many people
00:02:25.17\00:02:27.58
don't understand Pakistan
00:02:27.61\00:02:29.04
and I don't know half
what you know as a Pakistani
00:02:29.08\00:02:32.18
but I'm fairly
well informed generally.
00:02:32.21\00:02:34.68
And I know the history of how
00:02:34.72\00:02:37.79
the British raj was
over that whole area
00:02:37.82\00:02:40.46
and now what is now Pakistan
resulted from partition,
00:02:40.49\00:02:44.86
which was really a
civil war that broke out
00:02:44.89\00:02:47.10
as they came
toward independence.
00:02:47.13\00:02:48.76
But that the
founder of Pakistan Jinnah,
00:02:48.80\00:02:52.10
he was a military guy
as I remember, wasn't he?
00:02:52.13\00:02:55.50
He was a politician.
00:02:55.54\00:02:57.17
Mohammad Ali Jinnah,
you know that president,
00:02:57.21\00:02:58.54
he was the first founder.
00:02:58.57\00:02:59.91
Yes, he that
founded modern Pakistan,
00:02:59.94\00:03:01.64
his view was, yes,
00:03:01.68\00:03:03.28
that it would be a
homeland for largely Islam,
00:03:03.31\00:03:07.68
but he wanted it to be a
secular republic, didn't he?
00:03:07.72\00:03:11.79
And the government,
00:03:11.82\00:03:13.15
were not secular but the
laws would be secular laws.
00:03:13.19\00:03:17.86
It's not Sharia law in
Pakistan by many means,
00:03:17.89\00:03:20.90
it's a very western,
even British style government,
00:03:20.93\00:03:27.10
and I know the courts are
very much when I see them,
00:03:27.14\00:03:29.60
they function very much
like the British courts.
00:03:29.64\00:03:32.34
So some of the aberrations that
00:03:32.37\00:03:34.54
the international
community see out of Pakistan,
00:03:34.58\00:03:37.25
I think from societal agitation
00:03:37.28\00:03:40.72
not so much the
government being a problem.
00:03:40.75\00:03:42.78
Yeah, government no problem
and I feel that still it's,
00:03:42.82\00:03:48.92
some places, you know, you know,
00:03:48.96\00:03:51.76
you can go in a big
city and you do evangelism,
00:03:51.79\00:03:57.00
you share
Christ with no problem,
00:03:57.03\00:03:59.77
with no trouble.
00:03:59.80\00:04:01.14
Because I had
recently had very open meetings
00:04:01.17\00:04:04.91
in the big grounds
00:04:04.94\00:04:06.84
and they had a big meeting
00:04:06.88\00:04:08.64
and as a matter of the
on the 12th of November,
00:04:08.68\00:04:12.18
I was in Pakistan.
00:04:12.21\00:04:13.55
In 2016?
00:04:13.58\00:04:15.25
Yeah, 2016 and
they had, you know,
00:04:15.28\00:04:18.52
huge crowd on
actually, our founder guy
00:04:18.55\00:04:23.39
there's a Mohammed
Ali Jinnah's ground,
00:04:23.43\00:04:25.29
you know, this was a
big ground in Karachi.
00:04:25.33\00:04:27.83
And there was almost
00:04:27.86\00:04:29.70
close to one
million people a huge,
00:04:29.73\00:04:32.60
you know, that set up was there.
00:04:32.63\00:04:34.90
And when I saw
that police, army,
00:04:34.94\00:04:37.44
everybody was very
supportive and, you know,
00:04:37.47\00:04:40.14
securing the area, and, we,
00:04:40.18\00:04:44.45
I had a praise and
worship even on that stage.
00:04:44.48\00:04:48.45
And the title was
"Standing in the Gap",
00:04:48.48\00:04:50.59
you know.
00:04:50.62\00:04:51.95
So this was a stage
for that whole group?
00:04:51.99\00:04:54.06
Yeah, there was,
choirs were there and...
00:04:54.09\00:04:56.42
Also it was
many different groups
00:04:56.46\00:04:57.79
who were performing so
you were included there?
00:04:57.83\00:04:59.16
Many different
groups were there.
00:04:59.19\00:05:00.53
I was the leading gospel singer
and for praise and worship.
00:05:00.56\00:05:03.40
And how may were in
the audience you think?
00:05:03.43\00:05:06.13
Almost, you see, one million.
00:05:06.17\00:05:09.00
Incredible. Yeah.
00:05:09.04\00:05:10.37
And all sorts of people I see,
00:05:10.41\00:05:12.04
all religions and we
didn't have any trouble,
00:05:12.07\00:05:16.31
we didn't have any problem.
00:05:16.34\00:05:17.91
And this was even
surprising I could say,
00:05:17.95\00:05:22.85
or this was amazing for me,
00:05:22.88\00:05:24.69
you know, to see such
a big crowd, you know.
00:05:24.72\00:05:27.26
I think God had
His hand, you know,
00:05:27.29\00:05:30.33
protected this event, you know.
00:05:30.36\00:05:32.29
By my reading of Pakistan,
some of the problems that we,
00:05:36.93\00:05:40.94
and they are real
that we hear about
00:05:40.97\00:05:42.40
and some times
write about in Liberty
00:05:42.44\00:05:44.67
are out in the small village
00:05:44.71\00:05:47.18
where people are not very
aware of other belief systems.
00:05:47.21\00:05:51.95
They are not aware of
how the larger world works,
00:05:51.98\00:05:54.82
and, you know,
00:05:54.85\00:05:56.18
on these very
narrow prejudicial views
00:05:56.22\00:05:58.32
that are at work.
00:05:58.35\00:05:59.69
Of course, that
can happen anywhere,
00:05:59.72\00:06:01.06
even in the United States,
00:06:01.09\00:06:02.42
you can go to
Appalachia or somewhere...
00:06:02.46\00:06:03.79
Yeah.
00:06:03.83\00:06:05.16
You have answered this question.
00:06:05.19\00:06:06.53
In a closed community and...
00:06:06.56\00:06:07.90
You did that already
because, see it's a country,
00:06:07.93\00:06:09.46
it's a big country, you know,
and there is a problems are,
00:06:09.50\00:06:12.63
it can happen in United States,
it can happen in Pakistan,
00:06:12.67\00:06:16.77
it can happen in
India, you know that.
00:06:16.81\00:06:18.91
But also, but I
think in the big cities
00:06:18.94\00:06:21.21
still there is a,
there are, you know,
00:06:21.24\00:06:23.65
freedom, people are modern,
they think about differently.
00:06:23.68\00:06:27.18
But I do believe
00:06:27.22\00:06:28.55
and I was sort of setting
up for a question to you.
00:06:28.58\00:06:30.65
I do think with
all of that said,
00:06:30.69\00:06:33.42
you do need to be
especially careful in Pakistan
00:06:33.46\00:06:37.09
not to give
offence to other beliefs
00:06:37.13\00:06:39.66
particularly Islam, right?
00:06:39.69\00:06:41.06
Yeah, you have to be careful.
00:06:41.10\00:06:42.43
But, of course,
why would you do that?
00:06:42.46\00:06:44.33
Yeah, I think...
00:06:44.37\00:06:45.70
You are not in the business
of offending people at all,
00:06:45.73\00:06:47.10
aren't you?
00:06:47.14\00:06:48.47
Yeah, sure, again religion
is very sensitive, you know,
00:06:48.50\00:06:51.44
to everybody.
00:06:51.47\00:06:52.81
Everywhere there's
a status statement...
00:06:52.84\00:06:54.18
Avoid religion and politics
if you want to avoid arguments.
00:06:54.21\00:06:56.51
Yeah, and you know, we
should respect and this,
00:06:56.54\00:06:59.25
you know, we should respect,
00:06:59.28\00:07:00.68
you know, their
religion too, you know.
00:07:00.72\00:07:02.65
As we want, you know,
Christianity be respected,
00:07:02.68\00:07:05.55
we should respect others.
00:07:05.59\00:07:07.49
And you know that
even in the Bible,
00:07:07.52\00:07:09.76
the Word of God,
it says, you know,
00:07:09.79\00:07:11.23
that we should be, you know,
00:07:11.26\00:07:14.83
respecting even the
governments and the ruling.
00:07:14.86\00:07:17.30
Absolutely.
00:07:17.33\00:07:18.67
You know, government
and also you know the people
00:07:18.70\00:07:22.44
who live in the country.
00:07:22.47\00:07:23.81
And that shows
Christ likes spirit.
00:07:23.84\00:07:25.47
And that's the
principle of religious liberty.
00:07:25.51\00:07:26.84
Yeah.
00:07:26.88\00:07:28.21
I have to defend
the right of everyone
00:07:28.24\00:07:29.58
to believe whatever
their conscience calls them to,
00:07:29.61\00:07:31.88
not necessarily for me to
believe it, but I respect.
00:07:31.91\00:07:35.22
And more than that, I
will fight for their right,
00:07:35.25\00:07:37.62
no matter what
it takes to believe
00:07:37.65\00:07:39.25
something that I
might not believe.
00:07:39.29\00:07:41.46
Yeah, you know...
00:07:41.49\00:07:43.12
You're putting that into action,
00:07:43.16\00:07:44.49
at the same time
witnessing for the faith
00:07:44.53\00:07:46.70
that's made such a
difference in your life,
00:07:46.73\00:07:48.86
you want other people
to know about that, right?
00:07:48.90\00:07:51.27
Sometimes, you know,
00:07:51.30\00:07:52.63
there are
challenges and there are people
00:07:52.67\00:07:55.00
who get involved and
there are problems happen,
00:07:55.04\00:07:58.21
but generally, you know,
00:07:58.24\00:08:00.28
that things are still, you know,
00:08:00.31\00:08:03.31
that in a way
that people are really
00:08:03.35\00:08:06.92
open to talk to each other.
00:08:06.95\00:08:08.38
Yeah.
00:08:08.42\00:08:12.09
What do you do in your
campaign besides singing,
00:08:12.12\00:08:15.39
it's musical ministry,
00:08:15.42\00:08:16.89
you take sermons for
one of the better word...
00:08:16.93\00:08:20.06
Yeah, sure.
00:08:20.10\00:08:21.43
I just want to tell you in about
00:08:21.46\00:08:24.03
when I came to United States,
00:08:24.07\00:08:25.40
the Lord gave me
burden, you know,
00:08:25.43\00:08:26.94
that and I always
wanted to have ministry
00:08:26.97\00:08:30.31
that can help
people back in Pakistan.
00:08:30.34\00:08:33.38
So we develop this
00:08:33.41\00:08:34.88
"God of Life
International Ministry" in that,
00:08:34.91\00:08:37.28
see we have a Bible center,
00:08:37.31\00:08:38.98
and in that center we
teach sewing to students,
00:08:39.01\00:08:43.02
we also helping, they
learn Bible, you know,
00:08:43.05\00:08:45.75
but they have classes, you know,
00:08:45.79\00:08:47.62
we should take, you know,
00:08:47.66\00:08:48.99
there is a
poverty too, you know,
00:08:49.02\00:08:50.53
there is challenges in among
Christian people too, you know,
00:08:50.56\00:08:53.23
so we teach
them academic classes
00:08:53.26\00:08:55.46
and also the sewing
classes where they can be,
00:08:55.50\00:08:58.80
also making
respectful and comfortable
00:08:58.83\00:09:01.94
living for their family.
00:09:01.97\00:09:03.30
And plus they accept
the Lord and you know,
00:09:03.34\00:09:05.81
this is important.
00:09:05.84\00:09:07.18
Good, oh, you're
doing a wonderful ministry.
00:09:07.21\00:09:09.04
Thank you, sir.
00:09:09.08\00:09:11.05
I was just fishing for
00:09:11.08\00:09:12.41
what you do the
aspects of singing, preaching,
00:09:12.45\00:09:16.32
do you give materials out?
00:09:16.35\00:09:17.79
Yeah, sure, we give
this, you have this, you know,
00:09:17.82\00:09:20.96
that "God of life,"
but this is not God of...
00:09:20.99\00:09:23.76
But this is one of my
album so we distribute free,
00:09:23.79\00:09:26.29
but we also, you
know, give free Bibles
00:09:26.33\00:09:28.90
if whoever wants, you know.
00:09:28.93\00:09:30.90
Now, we didn't,
on the little clip
00:09:30.93\00:09:32.57
that we played I didn't
include your commentary,
00:09:32.60\00:09:34.67
but I notice you'd
give a very devotional type
00:09:34.70\00:09:39.14
introduction to each song
00:09:39.17\00:09:40.74
which is really a
mini, mini sermon.
00:09:40.78\00:09:43.58
Because, you know,
00:09:43.61\00:09:44.95
there are people do
not understand the language
00:09:44.98\00:09:47.05
even in United States
so they can enjoy my music,
00:09:47.08\00:09:50.12
so they see, actually you see,
00:09:50.15\00:09:51.82
actually this are
actual Bible verses,
00:09:51.85\00:09:53.69
you know, they can.
00:09:53.72\00:09:55.06
Now one thing I don't,
00:09:55.09\00:09:56.42
I must admit as many
years since I was in Pakistan,
00:09:56.46\00:09:57.86
I don't remember
at being as India is.
00:09:57.89\00:10:02.23
In India in most places
except in the smallest villages,
00:10:02.26\00:10:05.10
people will speak English
00:10:05.13\00:10:06.47
'cause that is the
lingua franca of India.
00:10:06.50\00:10:10.47
Do you find the
same in Pakistan?
00:10:10.51\00:10:11.84
Oh, yeah, language.
00:10:11.87\00:10:13.78
One thing you need to know,
literacy rate is low, you know,
00:10:13.81\00:10:17.35
it's not
everybody have education
00:10:17.38\00:10:19.21
because and English is
our second language, you know,
00:10:19.25\00:10:24.25
the national language from
00:10:24.29\00:10:28.36
which we are all
connected is Urdu language.
00:10:28.39\00:10:30.89
But other than that English
00:10:30.93\00:10:32.99
there are many
people speak English
00:10:33.03\00:10:34.80
but it's not like United States
00:10:34.83\00:10:37.70
everybody has
education up to high school.
00:10:37.73\00:10:40.64
But what I was getting at,
00:10:40.67\00:10:42.07
even in Pakistan
this English introduction
00:10:42.10\00:10:44.94
would still have
worked most times.
00:10:44.97\00:10:46.57
It's acceptable. No problem.
00:10:46.61\00:10:48.31
It wouldn't be seen as
alien or as just be foreign.
00:10:48.34\00:10:50.58
Yeah.
00:10:50.61\00:10:51.95
So I put both title in
English and Urdu, you know.
00:10:51.98\00:10:54.38
Okay.
00:10:54.42\00:10:55.75
So what are your
ongoing plans with ministry,
00:10:55.78\00:10:59.22
do you go back regularly?
00:10:59.25\00:11:01.79
This is not a one time ministry,
00:11:01.82\00:11:03.36
you are on it for
the long haul, right?
00:11:03.39\00:11:05.26
Yeah, I guess,
00:11:05.29\00:11:08.46
have this God of Life
International Ministries
00:11:08.50\00:11:11.83
and we go and do
evangelism in Pakistan.
00:11:11.87\00:11:14.60
And also my CD's
and my, you know,
00:11:14.64\00:11:17.44
goes to India and
people really liked it
00:11:17.47\00:11:20.04
and I'm so thankful for God
and also people to responding
00:11:20.08\00:11:23.48
and as we share the
Christ and we witness.
00:11:23.51\00:11:28.22
God bless you, as you watch us
00:11:28.25\00:11:32.22
on YouTube, or Facebook.
00:11:32.25\00:11:36.22
And also you know that
you listen to our music.
00:11:36.26\00:11:41.26
Thank you so much.
00:11:41.30\00:11:43.06
A few years ago
when I was a bit younger,
00:11:43.10\00:11:45.07
I can remember reading
about a universal language
00:11:45.10\00:11:48.07
that they were developing.
00:11:48.10\00:11:49.44
I think it was called Esperanto.
00:11:49.47\00:11:52.14
It's didn't gone and
have no consequence today.
00:11:52.17\00:11:56.34
But if there is a
universal language
00:11:56.38\00:11:58.35
it must be music.
00:11:58.38\00:12:01.48
In the Bible, it says that
00:12:01.52\00:12:02.85
David was the
sweet singer in Israel,
00:12:02.88\00:12:05.29
but music is endemic to
every people, all cultures.
00:12:05.32\00:12:11.29
And I think those
that are sharing truth,
00:12:11.33\00:12:14.26
sharing religious conviction,
00:12:14.30\00:12:16.43
when they use
music as Amjad has done,
00:12:16.46\00:12:19.50
they are
carrying a powerful tool.
00:12:19.53\00:12:22.07
And, of course,
the gospel commission,
00:12:22.10\00:12:24.61
the gospel truth is
sweet music to the soul.
00:12:24.64\00:12:28.78
And as I have
discussed this dynamic
00:12:28.81\00:12:31.35
with our guest today,
00:12:31.38\00:12:32.71
I'm convinced that
00:12:32.75\00:12:34.22
we need to speak
soothingly and calmingly
00:12:34.25\00:12:37.49
to many people about truth.
00:12:37.52\00:12:39.62
And if we don't
use the musical notes,
00:12:39.65\00:12:42.16
we need to use the rhythm
of nature of human emotions,
00:12:42.19\00:12:47.13
and communicate truth and
freedom on a broader scale
00:12:47.16\00:12:51.67
that we are now doing.
00:12:51.70\00:12:53.17
That's the antidote
to religious prejudice,
00:12:53.20\00:12:55.64
violence, and restriction.
00:12:55.67\00:12:59.14
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:12:59.17\00:13:02.14