Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000344B
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00:04 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:06 Before the break with guest Stephen Mansfield, 00:09 we were talking about the Manly Man program 00:11 that you've incorporated and it just hit me 00:14 even early on that these TV programs 00:17 like the My Three Sons and his father and so on. 00:21 There are always single males, buffoonish sort of lost souls 00:27 that the children can run rings around. 00:29 Right. 00:30 And even as I say that, 00:33 there's one or two with the single mother 00:34 but usually... 00:36 Yeah. 00:37 It's and they're very competent. 00:39 Yeah. 00:40 Admittedly that's very much like real life. 00:42 But it is. We all know women. 00:43 Well... Pretty well... 00:45 Sure. Pretty together. 00:46 But men have been held up a bad model 00:49 and I think many structures of society 00:52 have essentially figured a flea of emasculated men. 00:54 There's no question, I mean... 00:55 And so... 00:57 You know, when I'm watching the TV commercials now, 00:58 one of the reasons I wrote the book. 00:59 You watch TV commercial and who's the idiot? 01:02 It's always the middle aged father, 01:04 he's always you know, doing a happy dance 01:05 because he found the remote control 01:07 on the couch and when his wife and kids 01:08 are rolling their eyes at how silly he is. 01:10 And that is, again my goal is not to make domineering men, 01:16 my goal is to make biblical men. 01:18 Men who are taking responsibility, 01:20 men who are loving their children, 01:22 men who are strong in the lives of their wives 01:25 and in society as a whole, 01:26 and that we're suffering for the lack of that. 01:29 Now let me get your opinion. 01:30 I just thought of another TV program 01:32 that I think is a good model although, 01:34 not husband and wife model. 01:35 Sure. You remember, Gidget? 01:37 Oh yeah. 01:38 Now her father, that's what I think 01:41 was the type of role, very considered, 01:45 authority figure but not overbearing 01:46 and very common sense advice and he was portrayed it. 01:51 Wouldn't you agree, that he was a manly man, 01:54 he's fulfilling his family role obviously the wife 01:56 and I think he was a widower that was... 01:58 I don't remember, I tell you... 02:00 He's never really said. 02:01 Yeah, I'll tell you one show now that 02:02 I think it shows a very positive reason, 02:04 very popular TV show called Blue Bloods 02:06 and Tom Selleck plays the sort of father figure. 02:09 And you see a move back more to the traditional father, 02:12 I think that our society wants to see the firm, clear, 02:17 loving father taking the lead, 02:19 and so we've got that sort of fantasy in our videos, 02:22 in our movies and in our arts, 02:23 but it's not a reality in society. 02:24 No. 02:26 And of course, I'm a contrarian. 02:27 I think of Dr. Huxtable on where that lead. 02:30 Yeah. 02:31 Well, there's been a transformation... 02:32 You know the Bill Cosby that you echoed. 02:34 Sure. 02:35 But I think it's a reflection of what's going in societies, 02:38 they aren't unnecessarily producing it now. 02:39 So how do you run these programs 02:41 just to give you a chance to explain... 02:44 Sure. What you really do? 02:46 We do a lot of men's gatherings 02:49 around the world of various size 02:51 and my goal is not to create the momentum 02:53 for some new super event, 02:55 but my goal is to get men to build bands of brothers. 02:58 We want them to get more, to get men around them 03:00 who love them, who aren't afraid of them, 03:02 where they're helping each other, 03:03 where there's a free fire zone as I said earlier, 03:05 where they're saying the things that needed to be said 03:07 and helping each other endure life. 03:08 And then yes, working through books like mine 03:10 and working through books like John Eldredge's. 03:13 But that's where we're seeing tremendous change. 03:17 And so, you know, we've got a website greatman.us. 03:19 We've got other kinds of things that we use. 03:22 But the bottom line is 03:23 that we're trying to help men understand 03:26 what noble manhood can be. 03:27 My book "Mansfield's Book of Manly Men" 03:29 lays out some primary maxims 03:31 and then it looks at that manhood of the life of Lincoln 03:34 and Roosevelt and famous people throughout history. 03:37 So it's just an attempt to call men to something higher 03:40 and then give them a mechanism for doing it. 03:42 Lots of gatherings for men will describe, 03:46 you know, what a man ought to be 03:47 and then leave a man to do it. 03:49 But I think men aren't meant to walk alone... 03:50 So you have a follow up... Absolutely. 03:51 ..a little structure on this. 03:53 Absolutely, yeah, and it has to do 03:54 with these buildings of Band of Brothers, 03:55 that's what I want to see around them. 03:57 Now, you know, I can think of two alternatives 03:58 one, and one very bad. 04:01 Now I think in American society 04:03 since we've become more militarized, 04:06 it's basically since the war on terror. 04:09 I see the military fulfilling that role 04:11 in some of the gathering point 04:14 especially for the new generation 04:15 in little towns that don't have jobs 04:17 so they drift to the military and that, 04:21 perhaps artificially supply 04:22 some of what you're talking about, 04:24 but I don't like that. 04:25 I'm very nervous about any society that becomes, 04:29 that exalts militarism. 04:31 Yeah, I can sort of understand that. 04:32 And by the way I'd spent a lot of time 04:35 with the military, 04:36 do a lot of events for the military. 04:38 I'd speak at Naval Academy at West Point. 04:40 And I can tell you that even though these are, 04:44 these guys are trained in the military sense, 04:46 they are as much in uncertainty and instability 04:50 regarding manhood as any other part of society, 04:53 and that's one of the reasons I try to be there. 04:55 But you know, you've got a huge jump on me 04:58 and I haven't been in the military. 05:00 I still remember my number from the Vietnam War, 243. 05:04 But you know, the marines with no man left behind 05:08 and I hear about the bonding, 05:09 I think there's some positive societal link 05:14 that they're gaining from that, 05:16 but given that it takes military to do it, 05:18 that's skewing society 05:20 or at least the male part of society 05:22 in the wrong direction. 05:23 It is but I'm at least thankful that there are certain values 05:25 that are maintained in the military. 05:26 For example, there's a film that I'm helping to promote, 05:30 I don't have, I didn't help create it 05:32 are called Hacksaw Ridge, 05:34 you and I have been talking about this in our free time. 05:36 And it's actually about a Seventh-day Adventist. 05:39 Desmond Doss. 05:40 Who would be Desmond Doss, 05:42 who maintained his conscience scruples 05:44 and became a medic in the military 05:46 and then was the only 05:48 conscientious objector to ever win 05:49 the congressional Medal of Honor. 05:51 And this movie produced by Mel Gibson, 05:53 powerful statement. 05:55 And I've been writing and tweets 05:56 and then saying before audiences, 05:58 it illustrates some of the principles 06:00 of noble manhood. 06:01 Even though it's very gory film 06:03 and it's a, accurately portrays the battle of Hacksaw Ridge. 06:07 The fact is it's going to encourage 06:09 noble manhood in the society... 06:10 You're right, and thanks for bringing up. 06:11 I take it wherever I can find it. 06:13 And I also help chaplain in one of the NFL teams 06:15 and I'm not happy about what's happening 06:16 in the NFL with character, 06:17 low character and poor behavior, 06:19 but at least there's a little bit in there, 06:21 some people, some exemplary people 06:23 and I'm glad for whatever we can put on a screen 06:24 that actually exemplifies these things. 06:26 Now I'm planning on having a whole program 06:28 on Hacksaw Ridge... 06:30 Good. Good. 06:31 ..in due order. 06:32 But let me give you the other example. 06:34 I'm not critiquing, 06:36 the Manly Men program sounds fantastic, 06:39 but the need for it really on this, 06:43 it seems to me as I studied the history of Europe 06:46 after World War I. 06:49 A whole generation was basically eviscerated 06:52 at World War I anyway, 06:54 then societal norms were disrupted radically, 06:58 especially in Germany and France. 07:01 And then now in Berlin, 07:03 particularly through cabaret still, 07:05 we know a bit about it. 07:07 There was all sorts of transvestism 07:10 and just all sorts of admirations. 07:11 Of their kind, sure. 07:13 There was clearly a hunger in Germany 07:15 in that time for a sense of manhood, 07:18 and it was provided in part by these hunting societies 07:22 or male fraternities that morphed later, 07:27 they didn't, they were not bad when they started at all, 07:29 but they morphed later very easily 07:31 into Hitler Youth in and the whole Hitler program. 07:36 You know, what's your comment on that? 07:38 It sounds like you agree that it was the same need 07:40 but it was falsely fulfilled. 07:42 Well, that's part of the problem with manhood, 07:44 if you don't have noble manhood 07:46 and you don't have manhood rooted 07:48 in values and rooted in certain, 07:50 I would say biblical truth, 07:51 then the practices of men can be put at the service 07:54 of wicked ideas. 07:56 I mean, hunting is a noble thing 07:58 and we can all talk about the virtues of it. 08:00 At the same time hunting societies 08:02 can become tools of the KKK, 08:04 they can become tools of skinheads, 08:06 they can become tools of murderers 08:08 and Nazis etcetera. 08:09 So that's part of the issue, it's not so much, you know, 08:12 some men think they're being manly 08:14 'cause they're out riding motorcycles. 08:15 Well, but it also the Hell's Angels, point is, 08:17 it's about wedding manly activities 08:20 to a biblical foundation. 08:21 Right, and that's the safety on this... 08:23 Exactly. Exactly. 08:24 And the proven model, obviously as a Christian, 08:26 we know those principles are eternal. 08:28 And then those activities become noble in the sports, 08:31 the hunting, yeah, being in the woods etcetera. 08:33 And there's a text in the Bible 08:34 and I'm good on remembering text 08:36 but not good on the reference 08:37 but in the Old Testament on a certain society it says, 08:40 that there was a weak society, 08:42 that were corrupt and that the women ruled over them. 08:44 Yeah. Do you remember? 08:46 At the same time 08:47 one of the scriptures I really love 08:49 is when David's about to pass from his life 08:51 and he turns to his son Solomon, 08:53 and in the King James Version of Bible he says, 08:54 "Show yourself a man." 08:56 Well, it's fascinating passage of scripture because you know, 08:58 throughout the Bible most of the time 08:59 we see the word man or male or men. 09:01 It just means male. 09:03 It means just, you know, that's refers to gender. 09:05 There are few times 09:06 when it refers to the lore of manhood, 09:08 the way of a man, the masculinity of a man, 09:11 when he says show yourself a man, 09:12 he wasn't telling him to be male. 09:14 Solomon was probably in his 20s at that point. 09:16 What he was telling was, 09:18 go be a good and a noble man as God directs 09:20 and that's what we're trying to get men to do. 09:22 Well, I'll throw another one that you might, 09:24 well, you probably thought of it. 09:25 In the Book of Job, God says to Job, 09:27 speak up like a man. 09:29 Yes. I address that often. 09:30 In other words, you've been saying 09:32 all these things about me... 09:33 Right. Tell me now. Yeah. 09:34 Have the guts. 09:36 So there's obviously a lower a way of men, 09:39 a body of traits and characteristics 09:42 that God is referring to. 09:43 And one translation he says 09:44 prepared to defend yourself like a man 09:47 and that's, that says 09:48 there's a lore we ought to be mastering, 09:50 so you and I as we come up in our various churches, 09:52 the church should be emphasizing, 09:53 what is noble manhood? 09:55 What is righteous manhood? 09:56 And not to the diminishment of women 09:57 but for the sake, actually I think 09:59 the greatest men in fisheries... 10:01 Well, it's a matter of roles, 10:02 to me it's not a matter of ability. 10:03 No. 10:07 We all know, I mean 10:08 it's the great untold secret of life 10:11 that women do things 10:12 because they are usually more task oriented. 10:14 They will do things nine times out of ten better than men. 10:17 Yeah, no question. 10:18 And in the home, the woman is the glue 10:19 that holds things together. 10:22 They are the main beneficiary. 10:23 They're not second fiddle. Yeah. 10:24 A noble man... 10:26 Then in the role of men or son, men need to fulfill that. 10:27 Right. Yeah. I can see that very clearly. 10:29 And I think you're doing a fabulous thing. 10:31 I appreciate that. 10:32 So where are you going with this now? 10:34 Do you think it's a growing movement 10:36 or is it peaked? 10:37 It's definitely growing movement 10:39 and it's having a huge impact around the world 10:40 and well, I think what's most important is 10:43 we're starting to see men to get to, 10:44 getting together in these bands of brothers 10:46 and begin to perfect noble manhood together. 10:50 There was a near aware Nelson Eddy 10:52 and his companion of the day 10:56 or the movie could sing with vigor, 10:58 "Give me some men who are stout-hearted men. 11:01 And I'll soon give you ten thousand more." 11:04 I know Ellen White writing 11:05 in the early Adventist Church said, 11:07 that the greatest want of the world 11:09 is for man of principle, who will not waver. 11:13 Our guest on this program has taken a strong lead 11:17 in reeducating men 11:20 in the United States and Canada, 11:21 and indeed all around the world 11:23 but in the Western world particularly to reassert 11:26 their true biblical masculinity, 11:28 a leadership role. 11:31 There is much that is exciting about modernism. 11:34 And there is much that is frightening 11:36 about the modern devolution of social structures 11:39 including the family. 11:41 We do need to go back to basics, 11:44 to biblical basics 11:46 to the respectability of our assigned roles 11:50 if you like, 11:51 created roles not of one superior over the other, 11:54 but to use and maximize the character strengths 11:59 that ought to be exemplified in this case 12:02 by the male role, Manly Men. 12:06 It's not something to laugh at, it's something to be aimed at. 12:11 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2017-01-30