Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Andy Im
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000340B
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00:05 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:07 Before the break, at least me as a semi-oldie, 00:13 my wife wouldn't allow me to call myself an oldie 00:15 and a mature gentleman, 00:17 we were talking about the young people in there, 00:20 Italians with pseudo knowledge on the internet so... 00:24 Yes. 00:26 But it does come to a bigger question the internet 00:30 and not just through the media 00:32 and where we get their information, 00:33 where we get our news 00:35 and it's sort of a truism of late 00:37 that large urban societies 00:41 particularly are not going to libraries, 00:44 aren't studying for themselves 00:46 and they sort of fed the spoonfuls of information 00:50 that may even be misinformation. 00:53 And it's hard for them to know reality 00:55 and then you put in religion which is a complex topic anyway 01:01 and it can create huge misperceptions 01:03 I think the way it's presented. 01:05 Absolutely and I'm a very strong believer 01:08 that a lot of times the media will characterize various, 01:15 you know, individuals, people groups, 01:17 whether it's minorities, 01:19 whether it's the rich versus the poor, Hispanic, 01:25 the Hispanic community and ultimately I believe 01:30 that the way that we should perceive all human, 01:33 all, all of humanity is through the eyes of scripture 01:38 and that is we have a world that is in need of a savior 01:43 and we have this plague of sin that every member 01:48 of humanity is suffering from, 01:52 so we need to really understand that 01:54 and not demonize people 01:56 but really seek to save the lost. 01:57 Well, we need to have a viewpoint or a filter, 02:03 but quite the same that we apply to all information, 02:06 but there is probably a thin line between that 02:09 and presupposition 02:12 that only accepts information consistent with that 02:16 and rejects troubling things. 02:18 That's true. 02:19 So the trick is to have people that are open-minded 02:22 and yet not easily led us astray. 02:26 That's a very good point, I'm glad you mentioned that, 02:29 that's solid point. 02:31 But, you know, I really think that rather than 02:33 a lot of information individually available, 02:37 our society, our culture and our world 02:39 is more full of information than ever before. 02:41 I mean all the ages before don't cumulatively add up 02:45 to what is known right now, but that doesn't mean 02:47 you and I know it all... 02:49 Absolutely. 02:50 Even if we knew it do we comprehend it? 02:52 So in some ways I think the individual 02:55 is adrift in a sea of competing information, 02:59 confusing information, just information. 03:03 And I know you have a burden on it, 03:07 sometimes people even tweet me with it, 03:10 the conspiracy theory stuff... 03:13 But I think the protection against that 03:16 is to refer for us as Christian's reference 03:18 that against our biblical worldview. 03:22 And it to me it's uncanny 03:24 how much of what's happening in the US 03:27 and the larger world in recent years 03:30 tracks perfectly with some of the last verses 03:35 of Revelation talks about an end time. 03:39 I remember in 2008, 03:41 I wrote an article on the economic collapse 03:45 that we're still living through. 03:46 We really haven't rebuilt from that. 03:48 And of course, in Revelation it says, 03:50 "The merchants will cry 03:53 and wonder that their wealth's lost in one hour." 03:57 That's the modern world 03:59 and of course that's not the full fulfillment. 04:01 But when you see that stuff, 04:03 you know the plans to rebuild the economy 04:07 and to deal with the national debt, 04:09 those need to be addressed 04:11 and secular people need to do the best they can 04:14 but you and I know that's not gonna win world. 04:17 No. 04:18 It's gonna end with the collapse 04:20 of the world as we know it, 04:21 and the establishment of an eternal Kingdom. 04:24 So we've got a template to put over, over these things. 04:27 That's right. 04:29 But we also can't allow ourselves 04:32 to be characterized by the secularists, 04:34 it's just people that don't care about 04:37 what's happening here or worse 04:39 that we're irrelevant yourselves 04:41 what's happening here because we can be discarded, 04:44 and the pope in his recent speech 04:48 and a number of people that have picked up 04:50 from the sort of stuff on the war on terror, 04:52 they constantly decrying fundamentalists and extremists. 04:58 Are you willing to be called a fundamentalist? 05:02 No. You're not. 05:03 Well, on one level I'm not but yet... 05:05 Yes. 05:07 I have to be a fundamentalist, it's fundamental to me 05:09 what's God's holy word says, I owe to my life. 05:13 So just as with gay, it used to be a word 05:16 of that happy people and that, 05:17 it's been subverted and used to something different 05:20 and I think there's a, there's a, I think somewhere, 05:24 somewhere they've thought it through 05:26 and it's being used consciously to marginalize people of faith 05:30 that differ from if not a secular 05:33 than a narrow religious viewpoint... 05:36 To demonize it, more fundamentalist, extremists. 05:38 Yes and I didn't get your question but... 05:41 Vegetarianism is many people think 05:43 that's an extremist viewpoint. 05:45 Yeah. I don't necessarily think so. 05:48 Would my faith causes people to call me a fundamentalist 05:53 and I'd be happy to be called a fundamentalist. 05:58 The way I took your question once more in the sense of, 06:01 you know, the connotation of fundamentalist 06:03 as it's used in secular society... 06:04 Oh, no, I set you up for it. 06:06 Is one bad, it doesn't use their brain, 06:09 and you know, they're very close minded 06:11 in that kind of thing. 06:12 and I believe that we need to be informed 06:17 as Bible believing Christians, we need to be informed, 06:22 we need to know what's going on and taking place in the world 06:24 even outside of the prophetic context 06:27 just because if we're seeking to reach the world, 06:31 we need to know what, what their fears are, 06:34 what they're thinking about and I believe that can also be 06:37 entering wedge into a discussion 06:40 where we can reach hearts and minds. 06:41 I can give you a strange example of someone 06:44 that was clearly a fundamentalist 06:47 and a thinking person 06:49 and some may even raise eyebrows on it 06:51 because it's not the example you'd expect. 06:54 But Thomas Moore who is a patron saint 06:58 of the Catholic Church, who is the defender of the pope 07:02 in the king's great issue of Henry VIII. 07:06 So, you know, in the larger debate, 07:08 I might have taken the other side, 07:10 but as a human being, being true to his principles, 07:14 there's a lot to recommend Thomas Moore. 07:18 He was a fundamentalist but he was, 07:20 he thought it through, 07:21 he gave an admirable defense of his faith. 07:23 He was not a natural in his affections 07:27 and his interrelationships he wasn't... 07:30 He wouldn't sent he will lose his head, 07:33 he wouldn't go to the gallows I think he was, 07:35 he said was cut up but he didn't go there 07:38 because he made himself obnoxious to other people, 07:43 but at the end principle was so important that rationally 07:47 and in a very calculated principled way 07:50 he took the consequence. 07:52 That's really what I see as a true fundamentalist. 07:56 And I think he stood for fundamental principles. 08:02 Like I say, you know, other things in the context 08:05 historically, you know, works against it, 08:08 but just as a model of how that individual reacted. 08:12 Absolutely. 08:13 I hope that I could be the same way, 08:14 but we don't want to be bigoted, 08:16 we don't want to be a narrow-minded. 08:18 We don't want to be pejorative... 08:21 act pejoratively toward other people 08:23 but if we believe something, 08:26 we've really got to stick to it. 08:28 And I think that's the mistake of the modern world 08:30 and certainly the political world, 08:33 people flip-flopping these candidates at the moment, 08:36 it's almost dizzying. 08:39 It is... 08:40 In some regards what did they say yesterday, 08:43 well, today, oh, it stands for this today, 08:46 and the very least all 08:47 I could think of is George Orwell. 08:49 Yes. 08:50 Well, you know, in the journalistic world 08:52 they have this, and you know, 08:54 you're familiar with the term the term spin. 08:57 You know you can take... I call it lying. 09:01 Yes, that would be another word for it, 09:03 you see so much spin taking place today by, 09:07 by politicians and world leaders, 09:11 church leaders that that it's hard 09:14 to really believe anything anymore. 09:19 And so I think this is... 09:20 What does the Bible say, 09:22 "Deceive it if possible the very elect." 09:23 That's right. 09:25 And it's an epidemic that we're seeing in society 09:28 where lying is just so normalized 09:32 that politicians are not even called out for it anymore. 09:35 And if they are it's not that big of a deal. 09:39 Well, I remember reading about one candidate they said, 09:42 that they don't know that he consciously lies. 09:45 It's just that when he says something 09:47 that he wishes were true, 09:48 he comes to believe that's true. 09:51 Yes. 09:53 Well, we're all capable of that, 09:54 but you don't want that... 09:56 We're all capable of that, I'm not saying 09:58 that I operate that way, but you don't want to slide 10:01 into that sort of moral ambiguity. 10:03 Absolutely. 10:04 I mean that that's the way 10:06 that seems right unto a man it leads. 10:09 The end thereof is death. 10:11 Well, I was gonna put a secular interpretation 10:14 but I hesitated, 10:15 doesn't come out well in the end. 10:17 No, it doesn't. 10:18 And for politicians sooner or later 10:20 they will be caught out. 10:22 Although when we talk about religious liberty 10:26 and consequences the danger then is very often 10:29 and we see this happen now. 10:30 There is nothing current but I mean in our modern world, 10:33 often politicians deflect 10:36 or political powers deflect culpability to someone else. 10:39 Yeah. 10:40 And I do think in this war on terror 10:44 which has strong religious elements 10:47 that anybody that holds out against it 10:49 may soon find themselves 10:51 being cast as an enemy of the state 10:53 just because the state can't deal with the issue 10:55 and you're a problem. 10:57 So just like the Emperor Nero, 11:03 supposedly with the Christians in Rome. 11:04 That's right. Blamed them for the fire. 11:06 That's right. 11:08 Whether or not he set the fire 11:09 is he materially blamed them knowing not. 11:12 You know one of the things that I want to, 11:15 want to mention in the book Desire of Ages, 11:17 which is a commentary on the life of Jesus. 11:20 It's mentioned there that John the Baptist 11:22 with the student of humankind 11:25 and he studied human nature and I... 11:28 I believe it's very important for us to do the same thing 11:31 to study what's taking place in our world 11:34 as I mentioned earlier, so that what, 11:36 so that we can be better informed 11:38 in reaching hearts and minds, meeting their needs 11:41 where they're at and engage in a debate 11:44 that will reach humanity as a whole. 11:48 There was an old spiritual 11:50 that used to go something like this, 11:52 there's a man going around taking names. 11:55 Now you might think in our current context 11:58 that someone for voter registration 12:00 but I think the old song was talking about 12:03 something more like Revelation where it says, 12:06 "The books in heaven were opened 12:09 and people's lives were examined." 12:11 Of course in the great scheme of things 12:15 what we do and every action 12:17 and every development of human history is registered 12:21 and is knowable. 12:22 Unfortunately for us with the computer era 12:26 and explosion of "knowledge" 12:29 but in reality just an explosion 12:31 of information slash disinformation 12:34 is becoming harder and harder 12:37 for any one to really arrive at truth. 12:40 But it is imperative that each of us in seeking truth 12:45 and from a religious liberty perspective knowing 12:48 what is true religious liberty, what is a challenge to it 12:53 and how we maintain our religious liberty. 12:56 We need to adhere to the facts, seek out the facts, 13:00 look for knowledge, true knowledge, 13:03 and apply it in a way that will guarantee our freedom 13:07 and the freedom of those around us. 13:11 For Liberty Insider, I am Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2016-11-07