Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Andy Im
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000339A
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00:29 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:31 This is the program that brings you news, views, 00:34 discussion, insights, 00:36 and information you need to know on religious liberty. 00:39 My name is Lincoln Steed, editor of Liberty Magazine 00:43 and my guest on the program is Andy Im. 00:48 You're a communications man, 00:52 working with the Seventh-day Adventist Church in Michigan, 00:55 and youth leader with Campus Ministry. 00:57 That's right. Let's talk about our world. 01:01 Yes, let's do it. I originally from Australia. 01:06 Your forebear's from Korea. Mm-hmm. 01:10 You know, this is the world where people move to and fro 01:13 and we more and more see it as a single entity, don't we? 01:16 Mm-hmm. 01:17 And so it wasn't a natural thing recently 01:21 when the pope of Rome, itself a city far away, 01:25 used to be the centre of the world 01:26 once upon a time but not now. 01:28 But the pope of Rome came up 01:30 with an encyclical on the environment. 01:34 It made sense to a lot of people, 01:35 don't you think? 01:36 Because he spoke about something 01:38 that's concerning to all of us. 01:41 We're in a global village, 01:42 a little sphere in the middle of space. 01:45 Mm-hmm. 01:46 And yet it just seems to be running down on us 01:48 pretty quick. 01:50 The Bible says, earth wheeze out like a gum, 01:52 waxes all like a gum, isn't it? 01:55 It does, yes. 01:56 And another text that impresses me, it says, 02:00 God is coming to destroy those that destroy the earth. 02:03 Mm-hmm. 02:05 I don't think that would have been said 02:06 if it wasn't as we've seen now 02:11 that mankind literally is able to destroy the world. 02:14 Mm-hmm. 02:15 And beyond just degradation through bad habits, 02:19 what if we have a nuclear war? 02:21 You know, is what we fear all of our lives, 02:25 would it take place between Russia and the US 02:28 and they shot off, 02:29 let's just say 10 percent of their nuclear arsenal, 02:32 we'll have nuclear winter here. 02:34 The world would effectively be destroyed. 02:36 Yes. 02:37 I do think that the environment, you know, 02:40 it's the political hot topic and so it's very, you know... 02:45 There was no planning there, was it a global warming? 02:48 No, no. I didn't mean it that way. 02:52 But the Bible's very clear that, you know, 02:54 we were created to be stewards of this earth. 02:57 And to dress it, to keep it, to maintain it. 03:02 Like as Adam in the garden, 03:04 it was his job to take care of it. 03:05 That's right, the original plan for this earth 03:09 and so I do think 03:10 that protecting the environment is something that's biblical. 03:14 And we as Christians should do our utmost 03:17 in protecting and so forth. 03:21 I'm also happy, for example, 03:24 and I'm not endorsing any political party here 03:27 but, you know, President Obama 03:28 is expanding the national parks. 03:32 And I'm one that appreciates the parks that we do have. 03:35 I just got back from the Grand Canyon 03:37 not too long ago 03:39 and what a beautiful, beautiful place, 03:41 and certainly I appreciate it because it's God, 03:45 of course that's result of the flood and so forth. 03:48 But at the same time and something so destructive, 03:52 there's also a beauty there. 03:54 You see there, the grandeur, the power of God as well. 03:58 It's almost beyond imagining how big that is. 04:00 It is. 04:02 That like gully to use a little word is through the... 04:05 It is. 04:08 May be it's something I should say, 04:11 for me the Grand Canyon has two moments. 04:14 When we first came from Australia, 04:15 my father board a car 04:17 and we drove across the US from west to east. 04:21 And we stopped at the Grand Canyon. 04:23 It was in November at a motel, we knew it was quite close. 04:30 We didn't realize till the next morning 04:31 when we woke up 04:33 and it has snowed the night before, 04:34 the edge of the Grand Canyon 04:36 was just behind our car we parked there. 04:40 And there's a little fence like 18 inches high back then 04:43 and here it dropped the way straight into the Grand Canyon. 04:45 Ain't that's something? 04:46 But for me the image that I'll never forget 04:49 is before 9/11 flying in a United wide-body plane, 04:55 it was a clear day 04:57 and the president was actually visiting the Grand Canyon. 05:01 And so the pilot told us about it 05:02 and pointed out the lodge on the rim, 05:06 that's in Grand Canyon where the president was. 05:09 And he says we're bit early, 05:10 we'll take a tour around the Grand Canyon. 05:13 And this plane just went on a big circle 05:16 around the Grand Canyon. 05:18 Wow! Nice. Quite low. 05:19 And it was a dream on that crystal clear day 05:22 with the cars there, with the president's entourage, 05:25 then president. 05:27 I forget who was to be honest. 05:31 And is something spectacular, a creation of God 05:37 as part of the punishment I guess of the earth 05:39 but still wonderful landmark that reminds us 05:42 of the grandeur in the size of God's creation. 05:45 That's right. 05:46 And, but yet all of that is at risk, 05:48 even the Grand Canyon. 05:50 You can read some dark articles about the rates of erosion 05:55 and the water changes 05:57 because of dams and all the rest. 05:58 Mm-hmm. 06:00 And of course these plants for mining near the rim 06:04 that could despoil it. 06:05 Mm-hmm. 06:06 So it's not inappropriate for people 06:08 to have an environmental concern, is it? 06:11 No, absolutely not. 06:12 And I think I took you a little bit off track 06:14 so I don't know maybe... 06:17 Well, no, I'm heading for the earth is at threat 06:21 and efforts that have been made to save it 06:26 and in particular in that vein, 06:28 a document the pope of Rome issued last year in 19... 06:34 sorry, 2006, 06:40 no when, no, sorry early in 2016. 06:43 Mm-hmm. Yes. I'm already thinking ahead. 06:45 For 17, Laudato si' it's called, 06:51 they're always in Latin. 06:52 But praise be to thee. I think it means literally. 06:56 But he addresses this issue and, you know, 06:58 I have to commend them on one level. 07:00 Mm-hmm. 07:02 Wonderful. Mm-hmm. 07:03 This is not inappropriate 07:05 for people of faith to speak of things 07:09 that concern the whole of humanity, 07:11 degradation of the earth. 07:13 And he threw in some good practical advice 07:16 as well as theological narrative. 07:19 But you've read the document, what did you see? 07:23 I wouldn't say that I read... 07:24 But you looked at it. 07:25 What jumped out of you from that document? 07:27 Well, it's, what struck out at me... 07:31 It's a long document for our viewers. 07:33 You can get a long one, 07:34 it's about 120 pages about their paging system, 07:38 a little book sized document. 07:40 I only read some sections of it 07:43 and certainly he is making attempt to unify the world. 07:49 It's directed to all people. 07:50 It's not just Catholics, not just Christians, 07:52 all peoples. 07:53 Yes, and I think 07:55 you're gonna have to refresh my memory a little bit 07:56 'cause it was some months ago that I read that document. 08:00 Oh, what caught my attention 08:01 because first of all I'm a Seventh-day Adventist. 08:05 This Seventh-day Sabbath is vital to me. 08:08 When you read the Bible literally, 08:11 and remember the history 08:13 of God's dealings with the Jews, 08:14 the Sabbath was central. 08:16 And the Sabbath as part of the Ten Commandments, 08:19 there's just no textual reason for it to be changed 08:25 even given to the Jews, 08:27 it said, remember, it wasn't, you know, 08:29 the Sabbath day is now a day I give to you. 08:31 It was the day that in the Genesis account, 08:35 God sanctified it. 08:37 They weren't Jewish back in... 08:39 Creation. Adam and Eve were not Jews. 08:42 That's right. 08:43 So it's... 08:45 Even though it's been done, 08:46 and even the pope of Rome has done it recently. 08:49 You say well, it's a Jewish Sabbath, 08:51 it's not really biblically true. 08:53 Mm-hmm. 08:54 It's just become true in these latter days 08:58 where Christians to differentiate 09:00 have gone to Sunday. 09:01 And so in this document 09:04 the pope seizes upon something very apt biblically. 09:09 He said this earth is wearing out, 09:12 we're despoiling this worth. 09:14 He says, it may collapse on us. 09:17 And he says, God, when He created man 09:21 understood that the earth needs to rest, 09:23 animals need to rest, 09:25 there's a rest cycle, and man needs to rest. 09:28 And then he recites the Seventh-day Sabbath 09:32 as part of this rest cycle. 09:33 And he applies it to the animals, 09:36 to the earth. 09:38 And several times in the text 09:39 and these may be had been sections that you saw. 09:42 He come backs to this biblical injunction, 09:45 the principle of rest even the Jew believe rest, 09:48 which just goes multiplying on the seven principle. 09:53 And it's all wonderful 09:54 and as the Seventh-day Adventist I thought great, 09:56 he has put it in there. 09:57 He's picked up the model. 09:59 The unfortunate thing is that then at the end, 10:04 the pope sort of moves that logic 10:07 of the seventh day Old Testament 10:10 quote Jewish Sabbath. 10:11 He moves and applies it to the Eucharistic Sunday. 10:16 Mm-hmm. 10:18 Well, he can do that as the figure of speech 10:20 but it's not really possible as the matter of theology. 10:24 And then, I think to myself this is not good 10:28 because here is a religious leader 10:30 moving into a secular area giving a solution, 10:36 more than a solution and imperative 10:38 that without which we will all die. 10:40 Mm-hmm. 10:41 And he's saying, we need to obey 10:43 the principle of the seventh, but he applies it to Sunday. 10:47 Mm-hmm. 10:49 And in a previous document 10:52 by his predecessor, 10:57 I'm trying to think what it was called, 11:01 that was given, that Benedict gave 11:03 to actually President Obama in 2008. 11:08 It was a document that addressed 11:09 all the world's problems and it said there, 11:12 was problems of economics and of capital, 11:16 labor and of national autonomy and so on. 11:19 And it said there 11:21 that there's a need for a global authority 11:24 with the power to act and to enforce. 11:27 So I don't have to guess up where they're coming from. 11:30 So here on the environment, when they lay it all out 11:34 and it's fulfilled and us obeying the rest cycle 11:39 that ends with Sunday, not the biblical Sabbath. 11:42 That's bad on the religious liberty level. 11:45 He can have whatever theology he likes. 11:47 Yeah. 11:49 On this program we can't restrict the Muslim, 11:51 or Hindu or variations of Christianity 11:55 for the different doctrines. 11:58 They have the right to be wrong 11:59 or I have the right to be wrong depending on your viewpoint. 12:02 That's right. 12:03 But you don't have the right to force it on people 12:06 and this is the grand scheme 12:09 to make it a matter of human survival 12:13 to do what he says. 12:14 So he doesn't need to say the next step 12:17 that if this is adopted and you don't go along with it, 12:20 you're an enemy of mankind. 12:21 Mm-hmm. 12:23 You know... The stakes are very high. 12:24 What's very interesting is that the logic 12:27 that is utilized is our good values 12:30 that the broad Christian community agrees with, 12:33 you know, we do need to rest. 12:35 Another thing that he's stating the pope 12:39 is how we need to move from a materialistic mentality 12:45 that the American dream has caused us 12:47 to focus too much on material wealth 12:51 and that kind of thing. 12:52 And we need to, we need to focus on the spiritual 12:55 and that's something that we as Christians... 12:57 Oh, this was very good. 12:59 He mostly mentioned in that, in his speech... 13:01 It followed from the document which picked up on the things 13:04 but that's when he became very direct in his speech 13:09 to Congress. 13:10 Yeah. 13:11 That did flow out of what he said 13:13 on the environment but he didn't say that much 13:16 on the materialism or he didn't, 13:18 at least didn't take direct swipes 13:20 at capitalism in modern life in the document. 13:27 No, not in that document but I... 13:28 In his speech in to Congress, absolutely. 13:30 And he certainly, you know, and I believe we as Christians, 13:34 you know, I preached a sermon not too long ago 13:37 about the American dream. 13:38 And we've kind of adopted that as a Christian goal 13:43 or end for all of humanity and especially us as Americans, 13:47 but I really think that we need to think hard 13:52 about some f these values 13:53 that are espoused by our culture. 13:58 And the pope is rightly pointing out 14:01 that we all have become too materialistic, 14:03 too, you know, driven by the accumulation of wealth 14:08 and that's the end in all of life. 14:12 And those are not values that the Bible endorses for example, 14:17 and so he is utilizing Christian principles 14:22 using these things 14:25 that we would all agree with for his own end. 14:31 We need to take a break on that, very good point. 14:34 We'll be back after short break. 14:35 Come back and we'll keep discussing 14:37 this view of the environment 14:39 and religious liberty implications. 14:44 Stay with us. |
Revised 2016-11-07