Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Andy Im
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000337A
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00:28 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:30 This is a program bringing you some discussion, 00:33 news, information analysis on religious liberty events 00:38 in the United States and around the world. 00:40 My name is Lincoln Steed, Editor of Liberty Magazine 00:44 and my guest on this program is Andy Im. 00:49 Communication Director 00:50 for the Seventh-day Adventist Church 00:52 in the Michigan area. 00:53 Beyond that I think they're telling me, 00:56 you're taking a leading role in campus ministries 00:59 for young people. 01:02 And like many of us, 01:03 you've been studying the world 01:06 and the growing conflict 01:07 apparently between Christianity and Islam. 01:10 And I want to talk a little bit about that with you. 01:13 But first I want to show some footage 01:17 of another interview that I did recently 01:19 with an Egyptian Christian, 01:23 a Seventh-day Adventist leader who was visiting from Egypt, 01:27 in the United States 01:29 and we reviewed a little bit about 01:30 what had happened there recently. 01:32 Let's watch this. 01:34 Well Sobhi Hanna, 01:36 I hope the pronunciation is correct. 01:40 I'd like to welcome you to Liberty Insider. 01:43 This is a regular program that we record at 3ABN 01:46 but this is an irregular moment and a great privilege for me. 01:50 You're from Egypt... Yes, I am. 01:51 An evangelism coordinator there, 01:53 working with the Seventh-day Adventist Church... 01:55 Yes. 01:56 And I'd like to discuss with you for a few minutes, 01:59 not just your job but what is the situation 02:02 for people of faith 02:03 and the religious interactions in Egypt 02:06 since the so called Arab Spring. 02:10 It hasn't been business as usual, has it? 02:13 I'm very happy to be here 02:15 and I'm very thankful for this interview. 02:19 The situation in Egypt is improving little bit. 02:22 We have more security 02:23 than we had at the time of Mursi. 02:27 President El-Sisi is doing very fine as far as security 02:31 almost all over Egypt. 02:34 We praise God for this security achievement 02:37 and progress and improvement in Egypt. 02:40 I live in Egypt, I live in a low place, 02:43 I was born in Upper Egypt but now I live in Cairo, 02:48 and I'm happy to be a member 02:50 of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. 02:52 Not all of our viewers may be quite aware 02:54 but the Arab Spring created an upheaval 02:57 in Egypt that overthrew... 02:59 Mubarak. 03:01 Mubarak, Hosni Mubarak. Yes. 03:03 Then there were elections, and through popular elections, 03:07 a leader of the Muslim brotherhood... 03:10 Yes... 03:11 Mursi was elected 03:13 and then instability followed... 03:14 Yes. 03:16 There was some military coup 03:17 and General Sisi... 03:18 El-Sisi. 03:20 Has rule but now the dynamic 03:21 trouble of many people around the world 03:23 because it was not a democratic principle, 03:25 but as you say, I think it's obvious by now 03:28 that General Mursi has brought stability. 03:31 He seems... 03:33 General Sisi. 03:34 Sisi... Yes. 03:35 He seems very... 03:37 More direct. 03:39 Open to create freedoms for all people 03:41 and this is what we need to talk about. 03:44 Now, Egypt is a majority Muslim society, 03:47 so there's not really a problem 03:50 for religious practice of Muslims. 03:52 But the minorities like Christians... 03:53 Yes... 03:55 How are things going for Christians? 03:58 I know there's many Copts 04:00 who were the original Christians in Egypt. 04:01 Yes, the Copt, the Orthodox 04:06 represents the majority of the Christians. 04:09 We as the Seventh-day Adventist Church 04:10 is very small in Egypt, 04:12 but we have been there for maybe 150 years now. 04:15 In fact, I'm the fourth generation Adventist. 04:18 Now, we should tell our viewers, you know, 04:20 you and I are Seventh-day Adventists. 04:22 The world leader of our Seventh-day Adventist Church 04:26 is a contemporary of mine. 04:27 I was in an academy with him, but he was born... 04:29 In Egypt. 04:30 And raised for a number of years in Egypt... 04:32 Eight years. 04:33 His parents were missionaries there... 04:34 Eight years and he speaks Arabic. 04:36 He speaks my language too. 04:37 Yeah, so our church has close familial relationships with... 04:40 I do believe 04:42 when General El-Sisi ousted Mursi, 04:46 it was the divine plan. 04:47 Of course Mursi, 04:49 it was impossible for him to continue in power. 04:51 Was very radical man and his supporters 04:54 were taking over in a very suppressive 04:57 and aggressive way. 04:59 In fact, I have three examples. 05:02 If you go to public or what we call here 05:04 state hospital in Upper Egypt, 05:08 the manager of that hospital was a Muslim brotherhood. 05:12 The Quran was there 24 hours and the patients couldn't sleep 05:16 and no one can talk one word, no one can protest, 05:20 was the president if he's think like him. 05:25 I've another example, 05:26 and another in the bank called National Bank of Egypt, 05:29 the Quran was there the whole day, 05:32 nobody can listen. 05:34 And then we have the third example, 05:36 called Syndicate of Applicants, 05:38 in the state called El Faiyum, 05:41 the Quran was there all the time. 05:43 I think it's very very unacceptable 05:45 when people are doing their work, 05:48 the noise is going on. 05:49 I think there's some evidence at least looking in 05:52 that the Muslim Brotherhood agenda was a little extreme 05:55 for even some Muslims because it's the most extreme, 05:58 it's really the ideology behind 06:01 radical Islamic movements all over the world, 06:03 including ISIS and Al-Qaeda, isn't it? 06:06 Yes. 06:07 It's the ideological beginnings of all of them. 06:11 So, me as a just national of Egypt, 06:14 I'm very happy for what El-Sisi did. 06:17 I support him, I love him, 06:19 and what he did is a divine plan 06:22 for it was impossible for Mursi to continue. 06:25 Well certainly, God can work through civil leaders... 06:27 Civil leaders, yes. 06:28 So, how has the present regime brought about 06:33 increased freedom for people of diverse faiths? 06:36 Being a moderate, 06:38 El-Sisi being a moderate person, 06:39 not a radical, this supports everything. 06:42 Now to get a permission to build a church 06:45 is much easier 06:46 than it was at the time of Mursi. 06:48 It is quicker. 06:50 In fact I have an example in my mind. 06:53 Someone wanted to build a church. 06:55 He waited for 25 years to have a permission to build, 06:59 25 years. 07:01 Another example, someone waited 8 years, 07:03 someone waited 7 years. 07:04 I know what it is in Egypt. 07:06 And when it's that long, 07:07 basically they're intending to stop it. 07:09 Yeah. 07:10 So what I'm saying now, 07:13 permission to build a church is... 07:15 Quick. 07:16 Quicker, is achieved. 07:18 And we do have more stability, 07:22 almost all over, just in one spot in Egypt 07:24 where there is no safety, that is North Sinai. 07:28 But from Alexandria to Aswan, all over Egypt, 07:31 that is 1,000 kilometer from Alexandria to Aswan, 07:34 everything is safe, 07:36 the police took over and everything is fine. 07:39 Now the Arab Spring began with some radical 07:43 Islamic groups bombing Christian churches, 07:45 I remember in Alexandria and a few other places... 07:47 Sixty six churches were badly burned. 07:51 Now these weren't necessarily government actions. 07:54 Now, you've explained 07:55 how Sisi is signaling an openness. 08:00 Do you feel this in the community 08:02 that the community attitudes have changed? 08:05 There's less harassment 08:08 directly to Christians by the community, 08:11 not by law, but just by neighbors 08:13 and attitudes of radical Muslim? 08:15 Yes, I do feel it very well 'cause the police took over, 08:19 the police is helping in everything. 08:21 We do believe it, 08:23 we only have a problem with inflation. 08:26 Our pound is losing much of its value. 08:29 This is the only sad thing in Egypt. 08:32 But as far as freedom, 08:34 as far as supporting the minorities, 08:36 there is much improvement and I'm happy with it. 08:41 Now Sisi made a very brave and bold statement 08:45 before I think some religious leaders. 08:48 He called for a reformation in Islam. 08:51 Yes, he did. 08:52 Do you think this is possible? 08:54 Do you see signs of a theological 08:59 and a social change in the dominant religion, 09:02 because any dominant religion has a sense of power 09:06 that can sometimes 09:07 be working against true religious freedom? 09:11 Exactly, I hope he achieves this very quickly 09:15 because people have religious blindness. 09:19 Religious drought, religious ignorance, 09:23 you see and this causing a problem. 09:25 Someone screams early in the morning 09:27 and says he's praying, 09:28 and that makes everybody not to sleep. 09:32 I do believe, I hope he would succeed. 09:35 The parliament would be with him, 09:38 the army would be with him, 09:40 but the majority of the masses are not with him, 09:43 who are radical Muslims yet and they really hate him. 09:47 I hope he achieves reformation 09:50 and makes the Muslims a quiet religion, 09:52 not a religion of screaming five times a day. 09:56 Yeah. 09:57 I hope the improvement continues 09:59 because when you think about it, 10:00 Egypt well before Islamic days 10:03 was sort of a refuge for political 10:06 and religious people that were persecuted, 10:09 they would go there. 10:10 Remember, Jesus Himself with His parents 10:12 escaped from Herod to Egypt for a time of safety. 10:16 Yes, I do believe, yes. 10:18 So Egypt has a great tradition well before the present time 10:22 of sheltering people of diverse beliefs so... 10:25 Exactly, yes I agree with you. 10:26 So what you're saying is at least a glimmer of hope 10:29 in a very troubled time 10:30 in a particularly troubled part of the world 10:33 because, of course, next door, 10:36 Libya is not getting better... 10:39 And Syria. Yes. 10:41 And there are... You're in a bad neighborhood. 10:43 Yes. 10:44 Libya, Syria and Iraq. 10:46 In fact to have half a million Syrians refugees now in Egypt. 10:50 Half a million, have a lot of Libyans, 10:52 in fact they have two families living in the court where I am. 10:55 The building where I live... 10:57 These are stressful times, 10:59 I wish we could take several programs 11:02 to talk about this with you, 11:03 but I thought it was of some value 11:04 to include this on a regular Liberty Insider, 11:09 I'll be introducing this separately 11:11 and surrounding it with discussion. 11:12 But I want to thank you very much... 11:15 I do believe... Sobhi... 11:16 Yeah, Sobhi Hanna. 11:18 It's not a name I'm used to saying, 11:19 but I'll remember you for a long, long time... 11:21 Yes. 11:22 And I know our viewers will be praying 11:24 for your country 11:25 and not just for Christians but for all people of faith 11:28 that they will be able to follow their conscience 11:31 and worship their God in a way that is respectful. 11:35 Thank you for this conversation and shortened review. 11:38 Again I repeat my stance. 11:40 I support El-Sisi, I love Sisi, 11:42 I believe what he did is in harmony with heaven. 11:46 That's good to... 11:47 I love Sisi. To support just rulers. 11:49 If a ruler is upholding the principles of heaven, 11:52 God will bless him. 11:54 Thank you very much, God bless you. 11:56 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider. 11:58 Before the break you were watching 12:02 a very interesting interview that I conducted 12:04 with a church leader from Egypt. 12:09 Now, Andy, you didn't see the video, 12:14 but you and I and indeed the whole world 12:17 are watching with increasing dismay, 12:20 what appears to be a conflict 12:22 between Islam and Christianity, 12:24 but what is clearly a cultural conflict 12:29 between Muslims usually from other countries 12:33 in the western society and they just don't see things 12:37 the same way and I know you've been troubled 12:42 to read about in France... 12:48 France. 12:49 The ban on the bikini... That's right... 12:53 Where they previously banned head coverings in schools 12:57 and now they've banned the bikini, 12:59 which doesn't look too bad. 13:01 So what's the problem? 13:02 Well, I think, yeah, and I know they have still, 13:06 they're banning the head coverings 13:08 in any Federal or State building, 13:13 but the bikini is essentially a full body swimsuit. 13:17 It's sort of like a 100 years ago 13:19 when they were the little carriages 13:22 that you'd wheel down to the beach 13:24 and then the women with this western bikini 13:27 would then step demurely into the water very much... 13:30 That's right. 13:32 And the justification for it 13:35 from the French government side is that, 13:40 it's the assumption that this is an imposition 13:43 on the freedoms of women, 13:45 which I don't necessarily disagree with. 13:48 Having said that I do believe 13:51 that there are many sincere Muslim women 13:54 who are conscientiously wanting to carry out 13:59 their religious conviction in wearing the burkini 14:04 because it's more modest and so forth. 14:07 It's very interesting, 14:08 I was reading a article 14:10 where it showed a group of nuns on the beach 14:15 and they were fully covered as well. 14:18 And so what I'm a little bit uncomfortable 14:21 with is the singling out 14:24 component of that law 14:27 because it is singling out Islam 14:29 or adherence of the Muslim religion 14:33 and not so much other religions 14:36 that may be wearing something similar. 14:38 And we don't want that as a matter of policy 14:41 from any government where they pick on a religion 14:43 or favor a particular religion... 14:45 That's right. 14:46 We need to take a break here, 14:48 I know it was already broken up by the video, 14:50 but let's take a short break 14:52 and we'll be back to continue this discussion. 14:54 Stay with us. |
Revised 2016-10-31