Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is a program
bringing you some discussion,
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news, information analysis
on religious liberty events
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in the United States
and around the world.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
Editor of Liberty Magazine
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and my guest on
this program is Andy Im.
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Communication Director
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for the
Seventh-day Adventist Church
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in the Michigan area.
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Beyond that I
think they're telling me,
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you're taking a leading
role in campus ministries
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for young people.
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And like many of us,
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you've been studying the world
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and the growing conflict
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apparently between
Christianity and Islam.
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And I want to talk a
little bit about that with you.
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But first I want
to show some footage
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of another
interview that I did recently
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with an Egyptian Christian,
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a Seventh-day Adventist leader
who was visiting from Egypt,
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in the United States
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and we reviewed
a little bit about
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what had
happened there recently.
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Let's watch this.
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Well Sobhi Hanna,
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I hope the
pronunciation is correct.
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I'd like to welcome
you to Liberty Insider.
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This is a regular
program that we record at 3ABN
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but this is an irregular moment
and a great privilege for me.
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You're from Egypt... Yes, I am.
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An evangelism coordinator there,
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working with the
Seventh-day Adventist Church...
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Yes.
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And I'd like to discuss
with you for a few minutes,
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not just your job
but what is the situation
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for people of faith
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and the religious
interactions in Egypt
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since the so called Arab Spring.
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It hasn't been
business as usual, has it?
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I'm very happy to be here
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and I'm very
thankful for this interview.
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The situation in Egypt
is improving little bit.
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We have more security
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than we had at
the time of Mursi.
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President El-Sisi is doing
very fine as far as security
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almost all over Egypt.
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We praise God for
this security achievement
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and progress and
improvement in Egypt.
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I live in Egypt, I
live in a low place,
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I was born in Upper
Egypt but now I live in Cairo,
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and I'm happy to be a member
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of the
Seventh-day Adventist Church.
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Not all of our
viewers may be quite aware
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but the Arab
Spring created an upheaval
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in Egypt that overthrew...
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Mubarak.
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Mubarak, Hosni Mubarak. Yes.
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Then there were elections,
and through popular elections,
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a leader of the
Muslim brotherhood...
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Yes...
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Mursi was elected
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and then instability followed...
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Yes.
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There was some military coup
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and General Sisi...
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El-Sisi.
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Has rule but now the dynamic
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trouble of many
people around the world
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because it was not a
democratic principle,
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but as you say, I
think it's obvious by now
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that General Mursi
has brought stability.
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He seems...
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General Sisi.
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Sisi... Yes.
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He seems very...
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More direct.
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Open to create
freedoms for all people
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and this is what
we need to talk about.
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Now, Egypt is a
majority Muslim society,
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so there's not really a problem
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for religious
practice of Muslims.
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But the
minorities like Christians...
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Yes...
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How are things
going for Christians?
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I know there's many Copts
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who were the
original Christians in Egypt.
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Yes, the Copt, the Orthodox
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represents the
majority of the Christians.
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We as the
Seventh-day Adventist Church
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is very small in Egypt,
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but we have been there
for maybe 150 years now.
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In fact, I'm the
fourth generation Adventist.
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Now, we should tell
our viewers, you know,
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you and I are
Seventh-day Adventists.
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The world leader of our
Seventh-day Adventist Church
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is a contemporary of mine.
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I was in an academy
with him, but he was born...
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In Egypt.
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And raised for a
number of years in Egypt...
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Eight years.
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His parents were
missionaries there...
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Eight years and
he speaks Arabic.
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He speaks my language too.
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Yeah, so our church has close
familial relationships with...
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I do believe
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when General
El-Sisi ousted Mursi,
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it was the divine plan.
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Of course Mursi,
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it was impossible for
him to continue in power.
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Was very radical
man and his supporters
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were taking over
in a very suppressive
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and aggressive way.
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In fact, I have three examples.
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If you go to public
or what we call here
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state hospital in Upper Egypt,
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the manager of that hospital
was a Muslim brotherhood.
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The Quran was there 24 hours
and the patients couldn't sleep
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and no one can talk one
word, no one can protest,
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was the president
if he's think like him.
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I've another example,
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and another in the bank
called National Bank of Egypt,
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the Quran was
there the whole day,
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nobody can listen.
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And then we have
the third example,
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called Syndicate of Applicants,
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in the state called El Faiyum,
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the Quran was
there all the time.
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I think it's
very very unacceptable
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when people are
doing their work,
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the noise is going on.
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I think there's some
evidence at least looking in
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that the Muslim Brotherhood
agenda was a little extreme
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for even some Muslims
because it's the most extreme,
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it's really the ideology behind
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radical Islamic
movements all over the world,
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including ISIS and
Al-Qaeda, isn't it?
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Yes.
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It's the ideological
beginnings of all of them.
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So, me as a just
national of Egypt,
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I'm very happy
for what El-Sisi did.
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I support him, I love him,
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and what he did is a divine plan
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for it was impossible
for Mursi to continue.
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Well certainly, God can
work through civil leaders...
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Civil leaders, yes.
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So, how has the
present regime brought about
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increased freedom for
people of diverse faiths?
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Being a moderate,
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El-Sisi being a moderate person,
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not a radical, this
supports everything.
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Now to get a
permission to build a church
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is much easier
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than it was at
the time of Mursi.
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It is quicker.
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In fact I have an
example in my mind.
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Someone wanted
to build a church.
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He waited for 25 years to
have a permission to build,
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25 years.
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Another example,
someone waited 8 years,
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someone waited 7 years.
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I know what it is in Egypt.
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And when it's that long,
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basically they're
intending to stop it.
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Yeah.
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So what I'm saying now,
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permission to
build a church is...
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Quick.
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Quicker, is achieved.
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And we do have more stability,
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almost all over,
just in one spot in Egypt
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where there is no
safety, that is North Sinai.
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But from Alexandria
to Aswan, all over Egypt,
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that is 1,000 kilometer
from Alexandria to Aswan,
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everything is safe,
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the police took over
and everything is fine.
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Now the Arab Spring
began with some radical
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Islamic groups
bombing Christian churches,
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I remember in Alexandria
and a few other places...
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Sixty six
churches were badly burned.
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Now these weren't
necessarily government actions.
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Now, you've explained
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how Sisi is
signaling an openness.
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Do you feel
this in the community
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that the community
attitudes have changed?
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There's less harassment
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directly to
Christians by the community,
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not by law, but
just by neighbors
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and attitudes of radical Muslim?
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Yes, I do feel it very well
'cause the police took over,
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the police is
helping in everything.
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We do believe it,
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we only have a
problem with inflation.
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Our pound is
losing much of its value.
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This is the only
sad thing in Egypt.
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But as far as freedom,
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as far as
supporting the minorities,
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there is much improvement
and I'm happy with it.
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Now Sisi made a very
brave and bold statement
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before I think
some religious leaders.
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He called for a
reformation in Islam.
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Yes, he did.
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Do you think this is possible?
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Do you see
signs of a theological
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and a social change
in the dominant religion,
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because any dominant
religion has a sense of power
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that can sometimes
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be working against
true religious freedom?
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Exactly, I hope he
achieves this very quickly
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because people have
religious blindness.
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Religious drought,
religious ignorance,
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you see and this
causing a problem.
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Someone screams
early in the morning
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and says he's praying,
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and that makes
everybody not to sleep.
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I do believe, I
hope he would succeed.
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The parliament
would be with him,
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the army would be with him,
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but the majority of the
masses are not with him,
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who are radical Muslims
yet and they really hate him.
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I hope he achieves reformation
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and makes the
Muslims a quiet religion,
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not a religion of
screaming five times a day.
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Yeah.
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I hope the improvement continues
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because when you think about it,
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Egypt well before Islamic days
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was sort of a
refuge for political
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and religious people
that were persecuted,
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they would go there.
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Remember, Jesus
Himself with His parents
00:10:10.67\00:10:12.61
escaped from Herod to
Egypt for a time of safety.
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Yes, I do believe, yes.
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So Egypt has a great tradition
well before the present time
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of sheltering people
of diverse beliefs so...
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Exactly, yes I agree with you.
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So what you're saying is
at least a glimmer of hope
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in a very troubled time
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in a particularly
troubled part of the world
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because, of course, next door,
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Libya is not getting better...
00:10:36.80\00:10:39.43
And Syria. Yes.
00:10:39.47\00:10:41.30
And there are...
You're in a bad neighborhood.
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Yes.
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Libya, Syria and Iraq.
00:10:44.61\00:10:46.27
In fact to have half a million
Syrians refugees now in Egypt.
00:10:46.31\00:10:50.11
Half a million,
have a lot of Libyans,
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in fact they have two families
living in the court where I am.
00:10:52.51\00:10:55.68
The building where I live...
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These are stressful times,
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I wish we could
take several programs
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to talk about this with you,
00:11:02.02\00:11:03.36
but I thought it
was of some value
00:11:03.39\00:11:04.96
to include this on a
regular Liberty Insider,
00:11:04.99\00:11:08.96
I'll be
introducing this separately
00:11:09.00\00:11:10.97
and surrounding
it with discussion.
00:11:11.00\00:11:12.63
But I want to
thank you very much...
00:11:12.67\00:11:15.10
I do believe... Sobhi...
00:11:15.14\00:11:16.67
Yeah, Sobhi Hanna.
00:11:16.71\00:11:18.04
It's not a name
I'm used to saying,
00:11:18.07\00:11:19.57
but I'll remember you
for a long, long time...
00:11:19.61\00:11:21.28
Yes.
00:11:21.31\00:11:22.64
And I know our
viewers will be praying
00:11:22.68\00:11:24.35
for your country
00:11:24.38\00:11:25.71
and not just for Christians
but for all people of faith
00:11:25.75\00:11:28.68
that they will be able
to follow their conscience
00:11:28.72\00:11:31.15
and worship their God in
a way that is respectful.
00:11:31.19\00:11:35.32
Thank you for this conversation
and shortened review.
00:11:35.36\00:11:38.76
Again I repeat my stance.
00:11:38.79\00:11:40.13
I support El-Sisi, I love Sisi,
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I believe what he did
is in harmony with heaven.
00:11:42.80\00:11:46.20
That's good to...
00:11:46.23\00:11:47.57
I love Sisi. To
support just rulers.
00:11:47.60\00:11:49.14
If a ruler is upholding
the principles of heaven,
00:11:49.17\00:11:52.67
God will bless him.
00:11:52.71\00:11:54.04
Thank you very
much, God bless you.
00:11:54.08\00:11:56.11
Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
00:11:56.14\00:11:58.18
Before the break
you were watching
00:11:58.21\00:12:02.02
a very interesting
interview that I conducted
00:12:02.05\00:12:04.69
with a church leader from Egypt.
00:12:04.72\00:12:09.49
Now, Andy, you
didn't see the video,
00:12:09.52\00:12:14.10
but you and I and
indeed the whole world
00:12:14.13\00:12:17.47
are watching with
increasing dismay,
00:12:17.50\00:12:20.74
what appears to be a conflict
00:12:20.77\00:12:22.50
between Islam and Christianity,
00:12:22.54\00:12:24.27
but what is
clearly a cultural conflict
00:12:24.31\00:12:29.68
between Muslims
usually from other countries
00:12:29.71\00:12:33.18
in the western society
and they just don't see things
00:12:33.21\00:12:37.72
the same way and I
know you've been troubled
00:12:37.75\00:12:42.22
to read about in France...
00:12:42.26\00:12:48.53
France.
00:12:48.56\00:12:49.90
The ban on the
bikini... That's right...
00:12:49.93\00:12:53.47
Where they previously
banned head coverings in schools
00:12:53.50\00:12:57.54
and now they've
banned the bikini,
00:12:57.57\00:12:59.21
which doesn't look too bad.
00:12:59.24\00:13:01.38
So what's the problem?
00:13:01.41\00:13:02.74
Well, I think, yeah,
and I know they have still,
00:13:02.78\00:13:06.68
they're banning
the head coverings
00:13:06.72\00:13:08.88
in any Federal
or State building,
00:13:08.92\00:13:13.32
but the bikini is essentially
a full body swimsuit.
00:13:13.36\00:13:17.83
It's sort of
like a 100 years ago
00:13:17.86\00:13:19.93
when they were
the little carriages
00:13:19.96\00:13:22.63
that you'd wheel
down to the beach
00:13:22.66\00:13:24.93
and then the women
with this western bikini
00:13:24.97\00:13:27.94
would then step demurely
into the water very much...
00:13:27.97\00:13:30.71
That's right.
00:13:30.74\00:13:32.57
And the justification for it
00:13:32.61\00:13:35.38
from the French
government side is that,
00:13:35.41\00:13:40.58
it's the assumption
that this is an imposition
00:13:40.62\00:13:43.25
on the freedoms of women,
00:13:43.28\00:13:45.79
which I don't
necessarily disagree with.
00:13:45.82\00:13:48.56
Having said that I do believe
00:13:48.59\00:13:51.56
that there are many
sincere Muslim women
00:13:51.59\00:13:53.96
who are conscientiously
wanting to carry out
00:13:54.00\00:13:59.20
their religious conviction
in wearing the burkini
00:13:59.23\00:14:04.11
because it's more
modest and so forth.
00:14:04.14\00:14:07.24
It's very interesting,
00:14:07.28\00:14:08.61
I was reading a article
00:14:08.64\00:14:09.98
where it showed a
group of nuns on the beach
00:14:10.01\00:14:15.02
and they were
fully covered as well.
00:14:15.05\00:14:18.75
And so what I'm a
little bit uncomfortable
00:14:18.79\00:14:21.29
with is the singling out
00:14:21.32\00:14:24.83
component of that law
00:14:24.86\00:14:26.96
because it is singling out Islam
00:14:27.00\00:14:29.76
or adherence of
the Muslim religion
00:14:29.80\00:14:33.47
and not so much other religions
00:14:33.50\00:14:36.10
that may be
wearing something similar.
00:14:36.14\00:14:38.54
And we don't want
that as a matter of policy
00:14:38.57\00:14:41.41
from any government
where they pick on a religion
00:14:41.44\00:14:43.85
or favor a
particular religion...
00:14:43.88\00:14:45.41
That's right.
00:14:45.45\00:14:46.78
We need to take a break here,
00:14:46.82\00:14:48.15
I know it was already
broken up by the video,
00:14:48.18\00:14:50.92
but let's take a short break
00:14:50.95\00:14:52.29
and we'll be back to
continue this discussion.
00:14:52.32\00:14:54.42
Stay with us.
00:14:54.46\00:14:55.79