Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Andy Im
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000336B
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00:05 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:06 Before the break with guest Andy Im, 00:10 we were talking about many things 00:12 and I was about to ask you the big question. 00:16 There's different generations, 00:18 I'm the baby boomer, there's generation X, 00:21 the millennial, 00:23 may be others that I don't know about. 00:25 I think it's generation X. 00:27 I remember reading articles 00:30 where even college professors speaking 00:33 about this student that said 00:35 that there's a worrying aspect many young people nowadays 00:39 that they fit the expectation. 00:43 Now they're regarded in church they can be just fine, 00:47 but it wouldn't melt in their mouths but, 00:50 that evening they are off partying 00:52 and drug taking whatever they might be into 00:56 with no sort of moral ambiguity. 01:01 This is just the occasion warrants it. 01:04 How do... I'll put in other way. 01:06 How do we make true believers of young people 01:09 of a generation that are not fixed, 01:13 they don't have a fix thing. 01:15 And some of that, I read even, 01:16 I think it's true might come 01:18 because even marriages are fluid 01:21 and so they don't have a clear sense of 01:24 where they are in the family, 01:25 where they are in the community, 01:27 the society is changing quickly, 01:29 economic like bust and boom 01:31 and all rest leaves them very vulnerable, may be jobless. 01:38 How can we help them integrated into their thinking, 01:43 not just become actors 01:45 in a religious liberty morality play? 01:49 You know, I think a lot of what's happening is 01:52 with the Xers was the issue of compartmentalization 01:57 where you know, 01:58 they are one way here and one way there, 02:00 and they have to fit these constructs 02:04 depending on the context. 02:07 Of course, scripture teaches something very differently 02:11 that the bible teaches that true spirituality, 02:15 that's the word you used earlier, 02:17 is something that transforms the whole life. 02:19 It's a principle that Jesus uses the illustration of leaven 02:26 that works from the inside out and transform the whole entity. 02:32 And I think we need to let our young people know 02:38 that Christianity in the truest sense 02:40 is an emphasis on how it impacts the whole life. 02:44 And that's where I think, having a world view 02:48 is also important to see 02:50 where the principles of Christianity are carried out 02:54 to every aspect and dimension of life, 02:57 whether it's in the workplace, 02:59 whether it's at church, 03:01 and what they do on their day-to-day basis 03:04 in their free time. 03:05 And the gospel can do that, it can change the life. 03:10 You've been a good guest so far to a large degree 03:14 'cause we agree so much 03:15 but you're stating it very plainly 03:18 and to me it's the bottom-line. 03:20 Yes. 03:22 Someone has to have a change of heart. 03:26 A complete shift of world view from where we all start off, 03:31 just sort of floating in society 03:34 to being Christ centred, heavenly oriented. 03:37 When that happens, 03:38 it so much takes care of itself, doesn't it? 03:40 That's right. That's right. 03:42 And I don't know the answer to bringing that 03:45 about other than sharing Christ. 03:48 I mean, is there a particular plan? 03:50 I guess the Book of Acts outlines it pretty well. 03:53 It does, yes. 03:54 You've got to be prepared to speak it out 03:56 whenever you can and take whatever consequence, 03:59 speak before whatever ruler and bethought mad as Paul was. 04:04 And maybe on occasion in prison and other occasions 04:07 put your life on the line. 04:08 That's right. 04:10 But that doesn't fit at least in the western world 04:13 within the realm of activism. 04:16 People want to be an activist 04:18 but they don't want the consequence. 04:21 If you really think about, I mean, 04:23 I can remember back to the Nixon era 04:27 and the anti-war demonstrations. 04:30 It was pretty common for people to be arrested 04:32 and all that sort of stuff. 04:35 But I watch the stuff now on TV 04:37 and I don't think people expect 04:39 any consequence if they stand up. 04:42 And very few demonstrate against great realism 04:45 what happening back then. 04:47 And one admin... 04:49 or two administrations are going now. 04:51 I guess, the previous one before the Obama. 04:57 It even got to the point where you couldn't demonstrate 05:00 anywhere near the president or the rulers. 05:04 And they would rope off an area, 05:07 sometimes three, four miles away, 05:08 calling their free speech zone. 05:11 And I don't remember very many people 05:14 going outside that barricade 05:17 to where they'd be arrested, 05:18 just doesn't happen anymore. 05:20 Yeah. 05:21 And on one level I'm troubled by it, 05:24 and I call it basically a drift toward totalitarianism 05:28 or of almost a fascist model of social behavior. 05:33 But on the other level, it reveals that 05:36 people don't have this inner commitment to a value 05:40 and to a goal and to higher ideal 05:43 that the consequences be damned. 05:46 We are intimidated, aren't we? 05:49 That's absolutely right. 05:51 I mean, I don't, I think you said it 05:53 as well as it could be said. 05:55 I don't know if I can even add anything more to that. 05:57 You need to, you need to, we got time. 06:01 But no, the problem does remain, 06:04 not a problem, a challenge 06:06 and the necessity of the next generation, 06:10 the coming generations need to pick up the baton 06:14 of religious liberty and you quoted Luther, 06:19 I don't think it was this program 06:20 but in another program. 06:22 You know, we're coming up 06:23 to the five hundredth anniversary of the... 06:26 in 2017 of Martin Luther's reformation 06:30 which was not the only reformation, 06:32 but in Germany it was very pivotal development. 06:38 We got to rekindle that sort of commitment, 06:43 it changed the world. 06:45 And it changed the world I think, 06:46 because it changed lives. 06:48 That's right. 06:49 I do think that 06:50 our young people are seeing a... 06:53 or you're seeing a movement 06:55 taking place amongst our young people 06:57 for authenticity 06:59 and even self identification. 07:03 You have the whole bathroom issue in North Carolina 07:07 and so forth where people are self identifying themselves 07:13 as something that their biology says they are not. 07:18 But we are seeing a movement 07:21 in this generation towards being, 07:25 to living out their authentic-selves. 07:28 And there is good and bad to that, right? 07:29 Of course, there is. 07:31 They are often confused 07:32 about what an authentic self is. 07:34 But the Bible is very plain that 07:35 you realize your true self in God 07:39 through reference to your creator. 07:42 That's right. 07:43 And of course that's been said way back to in our youth, 07:48 they were debating whether the aimlessness of society 07:52 could be traced to the fact that God was declared dead 07:56 which is a bit bigger than just a theological determination. 08:01 It really meant that we were, our modern society was orphan, 08:05 it didn't have an antecedent. 08:07 And I don't think Darwinism or at least 08:12 what flowed from his original thoughts on the species. 08:16 The idea that you might have 08:18 come from the single cell organism, 08:19 that really doesn't give you much identity. 08:21 No, it does not. 08:23 So we can gain it as the Nazis did through 08:28 a sense of special people that were chosen by destiny 08:31 to rule everyone else. 08:35 The Jews were chosen by God directly but all of us. 08:38 Now, as creatures of the creative God 08:41 have been chosen for salvation. 08:45 Dangerous verb but predestined for salvation 08:47 as the Bible does say. 08:49 Determined ahead of time 08:51 that anyone that would take advantage 08:52 can rejoin that heavenly family. 08:55 That's got to give us an identity. 08:57 That's right. 08:58 And I believe the most important 08:59 identity for Christians 09:01 is the fact that we are Christians 09:03 first and foremost that, 09:06 that should come before any self identification 09:10 to any nation, state, to many organization, 09:15 to where you are in life as a student 09:18 or in terms of your career. 09:20 And I think if we identify 09:24 first and foremost as Christians, 09:26 then that will impact every other area of life. 09:29 Now time is drifting away quickly but I... 09:34 Remiss if I didn't mentioned 09:35 that in the United States and Canada 09:39 our Religious Liberty Department, in fact, 09:41 more than just a department, 09:44 as a direct adjunct to Liberty magazine. 09:47 My associate who is also 09:48 the associate in the department, 09:50 he's carrying on the North American 09:52 Religious Liberty Association 09:54 and it's a membership aspect within our church 09:57 to religious liberty activism. 09:59 And we are focusing on campus ministries 10:04 and recruiting young people particularly on campuses 10:08 but going after the younger, 10:10 newer generations, it's a necessity. 10:13 It is. 10:14 It's just that we don't have the secret yet. 10:17 And I don't think anybody does to be honest. 10:19 I don't think so either, yes. 10:21 But what you say I think resonates 10:23 because it's the way of spirituality. 10:26 We have to get a buy-in from them internally. 10:30 And once that happens, it will, all of it takes care of itself. 10:33 That's right. That's right. 10:35 And what stands in the way I think 10:37 are bad role models from adults. 10:39 Previous generations have seen the political solution 10:43 to religious problems and then the inconsistencies, 10:47 not just in the Church but in society. 10:52 The contradictions in our societies 10:54 I think are almost to the point of dysfunction, 10:57 well, they're total dysfunction. 11:00 And now not to mention, 11:01 just think of the most basic one, 11:04 here we've got one of the most wealthy people saying, 11:07 he's a champion of the poor. 11:09 That's right. 11:10 And he might become a good president, 11:12 it's irrelevant, 11:13 but here there is an incredible dichotomy, 11:15 that is irreconcilable on the face of it. 11:18 But no one seems to notice the dysfunction in here. 11:21 That's right. 11:23 And I think we no are longer holding people to... 11:27 or holding them accountable to what their profession is. 11:32 And I think this is a very dangerous thing 11:37 because now public polls, 11:40 public opinions are now dictating or determining, 11:46 you know, what policy measures that 11:48 we're gonna undertaking and so forth. 11:50 And it's interesting that these powers 11:51 because the founders of the US Constitution 11:55 were very afraid of the mod rule 11:58 was to be representative government not of poll, 12:02 whatever the majority says we go that way. 12:04 That's right. 12:06 And so ultimately it's gonna be very important 12:10 that we as Seventh-day Adventist Christians 12:14 don't determine our value systems from society 12:19 and the dictates of this world 12:21 that we ultimately need to go to scripture, 12:24 the word of God, 12:25 and ultimately determine our values 12:28 from that source, 12:29 the Bible and the Bible alone. 12:32 There's a line from the modernist poem that says, 12:35 "This is no country for old men." 12:39 Maybe not. 12:41 I saw recently a cartoon where the elders 12:45 were sitting around in an Indian tipi 12:47 and the flap is pulled back 12:50 and a couple of young brave stick their head 12:52 and they said, 12:53 "The young people have decided 12:55 that you need more on the council of elders." 12:59 Well, we can't voice an elder just by saying so. 13:04 But in reality the youth and their energy are needed. 13:10 And in reality, Christianity just for one example, 13:13 was promulgated and advanced by young people. 13:18 Somehow, today in our era, 13:22 young people's energy needs to be encouraged, 13:27 corralled and directed toward proclaiming religious liberty. 13:32 We know that any number of revolutionary movements 13:35 have advanced by the energy and the vision of young people. 13:39 Why not religious freedom, 13:42 why not the grandest spiritual principle 13:45 for a secular age 13:47 to allow us to represent our God in a way 13:51 that it encourages 13:53 the freedom possibilities for all. 13:57 For Liberty Insider, I am Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2017-01-30