Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Andy Im
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000336A
|
00:28 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:30 This is the program bringing you news, 00:32 views, discussion, analysis on religious liberty events 00:36 in the US and around the world. 00:38 My name is Lincoln Steed, editor of Liberty Magazine. 00:42 And my guest on this program is Andy Im. 00:47 You're director of communications 00:49 within the Seventh-day Adventist Church in Michigan. 00:52 You've also, 00:54 and I wanna pick up on this, 00:55 you're in a leadership position for campus ministries. 00:58 That's right. 01:00 Is it just with Seventh-day Adventist young people 01:03 or it's a broader audience? 01:04 Oh, we work with all the major universities 01:06 in the state of Michigan. 01:08 Yeah, and there's quite a few there. 01:09 There is, yeah. 01:11 Some of them even very good at sports. 01:13 That's right. That's right, yeah. 01:15 I don't follow it that much but I often see the... 01:17 Yes. 01:19 Well, UOM and MSU, 01:21 you know it's Michigan and Michigan state, 01:23 of course, are big rivalries and... 01:25 Right. 01:26 Well, on religious liberty. 01:29 It's long troubled me 01:31 that while there were many tens, hundreds of thousands 01:35 of activists all over the world 01:36 and people giving their lives for religious liberty. 01:40 Often young people are not on the forefront. 01:46 Young people, many of them and I've spoken to groups, 01:49 I don't think they quite understand 01:53 the underlying principles. 01:55 So there's a huge challenge there. 01:57 So I want to discuss with you 01:59 how can we address that both within our church 02:03 which takes a strong leadership position 02:06 on religious liberty, 02:07 through Liberty Magazine which I edit, 02:10 a little advertisement here. 02:12 Yes. 02:13 You know, we're printing nearly 200,000 Liberty magazines 02:16 every issue 02:17 and they almost totally go out to secular government leaders 02:22 and community leaders not to our church members. 02:24 That's unique. 02:27 But even our own young people, 02:30 I don't think are fully motivated 02:32 and what's the key? 02:34 I'm just looking for the key. 02:35 I know in religion in general, 02:38 the torch hasn't easily passed to the next generation, 02:42 very secular era 02:44 and young people are following the Pied Piper 02:46 elsewhere, many of them. 02:48 But on religious liberty how do you think we can, 02:51 we can, 02:53 you're reaching out to them 02:55 but how can we get them in to do something, 02:58 to take a lead in religious liberty? 03:01 You know that's a big challenge. 03:02 You know much of the discussion in our church is, 03:05 is how can we impact the millennials 03:07 and how do we get them, you know, more proactive? 03:10 Yeah, I said young people but broken it down. 03:13 Yes. 03:14 And that's a challenge working with students 03:17 on secular campuses, 03:18 a lot of them are focused on their academic careers 03:23 and so forth. 03:24 And to bring them back to a mission focus 03:28 is one of the challenges we go through. 03:31 You know there is a lot of movements taking place 03:35 in which young people are also included. 03:37 There are many rights that are being violated. 03:42 You see the police brutality, 03:44 you see minority issues 03:49 and the whole host of issues taking place in our country. 03:54 And as a result of that 03:56 you have a lot of movements that have sprung up. 03:58 One of them being the "Black Lives Matter Movement," 04:02 reacting to that now, it's "all lives matter" 04:05 and should our young people... And now police lives matter. 04:10 Police lives matter, exactly. 04:12 And should our young people get involved... 04:14 My point is, a lot of these are trivialisms 04:16 but it's a sad commentary on where we are, 04:19 they need to be restated because we have troubles. 04:22 That's right. 04:24 I do believe that 04:26 the solution is not so much socio-activism 04:31 and of course everyone needs to follow their own conscience 04:35 in regards to the activism that they get involved with. 04:40 I'm just very hesitant 04:42 just simply because I don't see the solution 04:47 coming from more activism. 04:51 No, I agree with it. 04:53 One thing I sort of stated early on, 04:55 it's been my view ever since I was young, 04:59 and I like to think 05:00 I can still think what it's like to be young. 05:04 My wife won't watch this program 05:05 so I could make a comment 05:07 but in dealing with our teenage, 05:11 we got a son and a daughter... Yeah. 05:12 I sometimes think 05:14 she's forgotten what it's like to be young, a teenager. 05:19 Which happens to many adults 05:21 but I can still remember, I can easily put myself, 05:25 looking at my son I can imagine myself at 18 05:27 and I know how I thought. 05:30 And one thing that I'm certain of 05:31 with young people, 05:33 I'm quite certain of this as a broad statement. 05:35 Young people are inherently idealistic. 05:40 That's why they are so easily herded 05:43 to the front lines in any battle. 05:46 That's why you know they are the ones throwing rocks 05:50 and they need rebellion or whatever. 05:51 That's right. 05:52 I don't think it's just that hey are unrestrained... 05:54 Yeah. 05:55 ..or inexperienced, they're idealistic. 05:58 Yeah. 05:59 They, in Iran and that was at the Green Rebellion 06:02 they thought that they could overthrow the mullahs. 06:06 They didn't realize what they're up against. 06:09 You know an older rational adult 06:11 wouldn't put themselves in the line of fire 06:13 because their idealism is not so visceral... 06:16 Vibrant, yes. 06:18 So I do think with young people you can channel that 06:21 but yet you're almost saying that's not enough. 06:24 Yes. 06:27 I don't, 06:28 I believe that certainly we need to be doing 06:32 much more than we are, 06:34 in training young people. 06:35 I think our church has as many avenues 06:39 to make that happen. 06:41 I wanna read a quote if you don't mind, 06:45 it's from... I envy you, you can read. 06:48 Yes. 06:49 On camera I can't... 06:50 My eyes are changing but, 06:53 I can still read on a screen here, 06:57 and this is very... 06:58 A small font? 07:00 Yes. 07:02 This is very, I think, 07:04 relevant to the context of today. 07:07 This is from the book "Desire of Ages" 07:09 written by Ellen White, 07:10 an early founder 07:12 of The Seventh-day Adventist Church, 07:13 one of them. 07:15 Desire of Ages is a book about the life of Jesus. 07:17 About the life of Jesus, a commentary on the gospels. 07:21 And she says here, 07:22 "The government under which Jesus lived 07:24 was corrupt and oppressive 07:27 on every hand were crying abuses." 07:29 We see that today. 07:31 She goes on to state extortion, 07:33 intolerance and grinding cruelty. 07:37 "Yet the Savior attempted no civil reforms. 07:40 He attacked no national abuses, 07:43 nor condemned the national enemies. 07:46 He did not interfere with the authority 07:48 or administration of those in power. 07:50 He who was our example 07:52 kept aloof from earthly governments." 07:55 That's a powerful quote. 07:56 And then, I love how she balances out 08:00 or provides a real solution. 08:02 It says, 08:03 "Not because he was indifferent to the woes of men, 08:06 meaning being aloof, 08:07 it's not because he was indifferent 08:10 but because the remedy did not lie in merely human 08:13 and external measures. 08:15 To be efficient, 08:16 the cure must reach men individually, 08:19 and must regenerate the heart. 08:21 What the world needs is heart change, 08:25 not political change, 08:26 not, you know, 08:30 from socialism to capitalism 08:33 or various ideologies. 08:35 What we need is 08:36 the transformation of the heart. 08:38 I absolutely agree with you. 08:39 This is what I've been trying to say in Liberty Magazine. 08:43 It really troubles me to see it as a political challenge, 08:48 to fight for religious liberty. 08:50 And it's why, really why, 08:53 those that hear me and specially in churches, 08:56 I've had people say to me, 08:58 I mean, they say many different things 08:59 but one comment that I pay attention 09:01 if they say, oh, it's all doom and gloom you know? 09:04 Well, I can't come to any conclusion 09:06 when I see such desperate social situations 09:10 and the attitudes of people 09:12 are so dangerously off message. 09:18 I wouldn't be encouraged. 09:21 I've gotta be careful about naming political candidates. 09:23 But let's just say 09:24 one of the two presidential candidates got in 09:29 and passed a flurry of laws that fixed up the constitution 09:35 for religious liberty 09:36 where it was immaculately constructed 09:39 to empower everybody 09:41 to practice religious faith and so on. 09:45 I wouldn't be particularly encouraged 09:46 because I would know that the negative social attitudes 09:50 are still there 09:51 and they are the engines driving 09:54 really my negativity. 09:56 That's right. 09:57 You know I wanna add to that. 10:01 You know, there are a lot of movements taking place. 10:03 You know, if I go on to my Facebook page, 10:07 you know, you see many young people 10:09 involved in gun right issues. 10:11 I'm talking about Seventh-day Adventist Christians. 10:13 I haven't noticed the young people in that 10:14 have they on gun rights? 10:16 Yes. 10:17 I thought that was the old middle age Virginia, 10:21 a good old boy or Carolina. 10:24 No, I think it's affecting everyone. 10:27 But you know, you have the gun rights, 10:30 you have the black lives matter, 10:31 you have a lot of these issues 10:35 that are impacting secular society. 10:38 I believe, as Christians, 10:41 we have a very specific mission 10:43 and that is to take the gospel to every nation, kindred, 10:48 tongue and people. 10:49 And I believe we need to stay on point with... 10:53 And what is the gospel? 10:55 The gospel, quite literally it's Godspeed, 10:59 a whole genuine God story, 11:00 but God's story is the liberation 11:02 from the power of sin that was given to us. 11:05 That's right. 11:06 That is a powerful message, 11:07 that we've been tasked to present. 11:12 We haven't been told overthrow, 11:15 in fact the Bible says the opposite. 11:17 It says that God sets up and overthrows kings, 11:20 not us through our actions. 11:22 Absolutely. 11:24 And we can't directly through political means 11:26 change a country 11:28 but as in the build up to the American Revolution, 11:31 we know that George Wakefield 11:33 and a few other ministers in the first grade awakening, 11:37 they really changed the social sensibility 11:41 where there was not only a revival 11:42 but there was such a commitment to that individual freedom 11:47 that came with it 11:49 that on the political front 11:50 they resisted what they saw as repression. 11:54 I'm not really saying, I mean I gotta be careful 11:57 because I don't believe 11:58 that the religious sensibility 12:00 automatically leads to civil rebellion. 12:03 Yes. 12:04 But there is, in that regard, in that time, 12:06 there was a direct line between the change in the population 12:10 through spirituality 12:12 and the way they acted. 12:13 Yeah. 12:14 And when you look at politics, 12:16 when you look at that the world in general 12:19 much of its emphasis is on what man can do, 12:22 what can we accomplish. 12:24 The gospel tells me that man can do nothing 12:28 and the emphasis of the gospels what God can do. 12:32 And so I believe that 12:35 we need to emphasize that component much more. 12:40 I like the words of John the Baptist, 12:43 let him increase but he must decrease. 12:47 Absolutely. 12:48 And that's a principle that I think should pervade 12:51 every aspect of life even when it comes to social change. 12:56 We need to be on our knees praying much more than we are. 13:00 We need to be spreading the gospel message 13:04 to this world. 13:05 What I see moving towards 13:07 and I'll mention it again 13:09 I'm sure is in the early days 13:11 of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, 13:13 the religious liberty leader AT Jones 13:16 facing legislative challenges 13:19 and indeed 13:21 declining true religious sensibility in the country, 13:27 he was convinced that the need was revival. 13:31 And yet he also gave testimony in congress 13:34 but the key element was 13:37 the spirituality you talk about. 13:38 Without the spirituality, 13:40 nothing happens on religious liberty. 13:44 We're coming up to the break. 13:45 So I was about to ask another question of my guest 13:48 but come back after the break and hear what that question is. 13:52 Join us for this discussion after a short break. 13:55 Thank you. |
Revised 2017-01-30