Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Bruce N. Cameron
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000333B
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00:05 Welcome back.
00:07 We had a little time to gather our breathe 00:09 before we get right into this heavy stuff again 00:12 but, Bruce, talking about the culture war 00:17 that this perhaps represented 00:19 very much front and center 00:21 in this pending legislation in California 00:26 that could negatively impact our schools, 00:30 who you would hope would fend off 00:33 if it's to force them into a different moral norm 00:38 that the Bible recommends. 00:40 But do you think that 00:41 there is an element of provocation on this 00:43 that those representing the new found rights 00:47 of the gay and transgender, 00:49 homosexual and lesbian community. 00:53 You know, by the way the description gets 00:55 bigger and bigger, have you noticed? 00:57 Yes. 00:58 Queue is the latest addition 00:59 those who are questioning what's going on. 01:03 But you know, these people in the civil sense. 01:05 Yeah, they have every right 01:07 to seek rights through, 01:12 you know, public forum 01:14 and so and the society is moved that way. 01:17 Even I could see sign of the times, 01:20 but this is the civil right. 01:21 But for them then to take this new found right 01:24 and use this as a cudgel against 01:26 someone of a faith and a moral viewpoint that disagree with, 01:30 I think it's a little... 01:32 Well, it's more than little unfortunate. 01:34 It's a provocation. 01:36 I said before the break 01:38 that they determine to make the church kneel, 01:40 so the question is why is that? 01:42 Why would they use a cudgel? 01:43 Why would they want the church to kneel? 01:46 And I think the answer is very easy 01:49 when you think about this. 01:51 What is the principle opposition 01:54 to homosexual rights, 01:57 homosexual marriage? 01:58 It's probably in Christians. 02:01 I mean there is no sort of other 02:08 organized opposition. 02:09 Well, it's true. 02:11 There is no other sort of more I believe, 02:13 all the opposition is based on church's religious belief, 02:19 just like with the Civil Rights Act, 02:22 the churches were in favor of nondiscrimination 02:27 with regard to raise. 02:28 In this case a large number of churches 02:31 and believers think that this is an immoral activity, 02:35 that's why if they are going to achieve normalcy, 02:41 that they are just like everyone else, 02:43 they've got to eradicate this belief, 02:46 they've got to bury this belief 02:48 that it is immoral and inconsistent 02:50 with biblical principles. 02:52 Well, I would take it even further. 02:53 I've said it on this program before. 02:56 I was like a little spongier when I was a kid, 02:59 and in Australia my father 03:01 often used to take us or me I think, 03:05 I don't remember my mother going or my sister. 03:08 He would take me... 03:09 In fact I know, it was just me 03:11 on the Saturday night. 03:13 He was a temperance leader 03:15 and so we would go downtown Sydney 03:18 and he would go to the different pubs 03:20 and so want to talk to the different drunks 03:21 and so on, 03:23 so he's witnessed to that one, that was an interesting thing. 03:25 But before that Sunday... 03:26 They allow small children to be in bars and... 03:29 Not... 03:31 Well, it was another era. 03:33 I just wanted to know. 03:34 But anyhow he's witnessing, 03:35 but my point is these were two activities 03:37 that I remember clearly and then it was either, 03:39 I think it was this Sunday afternoon, 03:41 go down to Hyde Park in Sydney 03:44 where in the tradition of the Hyde Park in London, 03:48 anybody can stick a soap box and rant everyone, 03:51 talk against the government, 03:53 talk communism, sedition, this was the cold war, 03:56 but you could get up there and no one would bother you, 03:59 well, they could bother you. 04:00 Free speech so they can scream back at the guy and all that. 04:03 And I remember listening to a whole bunch of people, 04:07 I think probably the best connection 04:09 to make as a socialist secular agenda, 04:13 but deep Marxist stuff, right, 04:16 and they were railing against the patristic society, 04:21 the western society, 04:22 they wanted to overturn all the norms. 04:25 And I believe 04:27 and I want to rent this stuff over the years. 04:29 It's not that every gay or transgender person 04:33 had deepen to the philosophy, 04:35 many of them live their lifestyle and they... 04:37 but the philosophical engine driving 04:40 this whole movement is connected with that, 04:43 I think it doesn't just want to empower their lifestyle, 04:46 it wants to breakdown the whole Judeo-Christian 04:50 what they see patristic structure of society, 04:53 destroy the family 04:55 and the whole hierarchical system 04:58 as they see it, it's quiet revolutionary. 05:01 And it's coming out of the educational institutions 05:06 of higher learn. 05:07 Yes, there are lot of those that 05:09 are pushing not the same stuff, 05:10 but the same a grand social agenda 05:14 or at least the principles that are driving this agenda. 05:17 See I might rare bird to be a conservative law professor. 05:22 Yes, I know. 05:24 I just read a survey, 05:25 in fact there are several surveys, 05:27 80 percent of law professors in the country are liberals 05:31 that is to the extent that they express their position, 05:35 only about 11 percent 05:38 of law professors are conservatives, 05:41 and in the colleges there is a very similar mix effect 05:48 that may be more liberals 05:49 and so all these students are coming through, 05:52 and some of them are being taught by actual Marxist, 05:55 I mean, you know, there is... 05:57 I read some survey that was 05:59 discussing a comparison of number of Marxist 06:02 who are teaching in the college system 06:06 as opposed to conservatives, 06:07 it's kind of a frightening thing 06:09 so when you say that 06:11 there is some sort of unifying theory. 06:14 I doubt that the individual students 06:16 have connected all the dots, 06:19 but these instructors are probably 06:21 connected all the dots. 06:23 And it's been trendy for a long, long time. 06:25 Back when I was a kid, it was marginal 06:27 because it was in the beginnings 06:29 of the Cold War and communism was cast 06:31 as the absolutely evil in Australia and America. 06:34 You know, it was a Judeo-Christian castle 06:37 we were defending but those days are gone now. 06:40 The rot is on many, many levels 06:42 and I do believe that there's a bigger agenda 06:44 than just empowering their own lifestyle. 06:48 And the aberrant quirk in this that 06:52 put most people off the trail was the gay community 06:56 seeking to call their relationships marriage. 06:59 I've read this stuff, 07:00 they are not for marriage in any shape, 07:03 form or manner. 07:05 It's basically free love and free association, 07:09 and you know, in communist Russia 07:12 which was not connected in every way 07:14 what they are thinking, but remember, 07:16 children were initially at least pulled away 07:20 from their parents and run in sort of, 07:23 you know, like the sea lion colony, 07:27 because the words of the state, 07:29 it was a new social experiment 07:31 to pull people away from the loyalty 07:34 and the control of the parents. 07:36 And so I don't believe 07:38 that marriage is what this is all about at all. 07:41 It's like the dog that caught the car. 07:44 Once the dog catches the car he's not sure 07:47 what it wants do with it. 07:49 I think you're right, that's been my observation, 07:52 obviously I'm not an expert on this 07:54 but it seems that monogamy... 07:58 Well, I thought this could be. 08:00 I've read and I don't read regularly 08:01 but I've read the Blade, Washington Blade and others, 08:03 and I've seen people writing in there saying, you know, 08:06 how come we're pushing for marriage, 08:08 we're not for this and all of that. 08:10 This is betraying the, you know, the cause. 08:13 I know within the system there's agitate their system, 08:17 there is agitation that even questions they attack, 08:20 but it's worked for them. 08:22 I think it flushed some Christians 08:25 out in the Bush administration 08:27 for pushing for the marriage amendment 08:29 which in my view is an inordinate power 08:33 to try to use the government to legislate your morality. 08:37 I don't want the government to be 08:38 defining what a marriage is, 08:40 the church should define it. 08:41 Well, you know, Lincoln, 08:44 when we talk about these kinds of issues, 08:46 I think it comes back 08:48 to the very important religious liberty issue 08:50 which is the church should be able to say 08:53 what it thinks about morality, 08:55 church should have institutions... 08:57 Not should be able to, it's obligated to. 08:59 Obligated to, right, 09:01 with regard to the external law, 09:03 they should be able to say in our schools 09:06 what we think about this. 09:07 They should be able to hire faculty 09:10 who are consistent with their beliefs, 09:12 and so what's really going on here 09:15 and the real threat 09:16 to religious liberty is a threat 09:18 to religious speech in practice. 09:22 And that's the problem, 09:23 I mean, if homosexuals want to go out 09:26 and have relationships, 09:28 there are all sorts of things that go on in the country 09:30 that I don't approve of... 09:32 This is one among many. Right, I don't believe. 09:34 This is a very unfortunate 09:36 part of this in this particular clash. 09:38 Christians are being cast more and more as, 09:41 you know, fixated on this one issue. 09:43 I don't think that could 09:45 or should be or even is the case. 09:47 Right. 09:48 The fixation particularly 09:50 from a religious liberty point of view 09:52 is forcing the churches speech in practice 09:56 and that is the end goal I believe here. 09:58 Yeah. 10:00 This is the greatest threat to religious liberty 10:02 that I've seen in my life time. 10:04 Yes, and it's not going to ease of any time soon, is it? 10:08 I fear not. I fear not once... 10:11 But we need to keep up the defense. 10:14 Once again as I've been discussing, 10:18 the Supreme Court is on the razor's edge here, 10:22 and who is elected may very well determine, 10:25 or likely determine 10:27 whether or not there will be Supreme Court 10:28 that'd be friendly to gay rights 10:30 as opposed to religious freedom rights. 10:32 Yeah, so there's a lot at stake. 10:34 We're definitely the crest sides of history, aren't we? 10:37 Yes, yes I think so. 10:39 You know, it's important for Christians 10:42 to pay attention what's going on 10:44 and be alert to the protection of their religious liberty. 10:48 These kinds of events that we've been discussing 10:52 in which people talk about homosexual rights, 10:55 abortion rights or what have you, 10:57 generally have an undertone of religious freedom 11:01 being in jeopardy. 11:03 And so I asked the viewers 11:05 when you look at these kinds of situations 11:07 to say is this what appears on the surface, 11:11 or is this ultimately something that will harm the church 11:16 and harm the freedom of believers. 11:20 Reading the Bible, 11:22 I'm struck at the biblical record 11:25 of the schools of the prophets 11:26 that were run in Old Testament times. 11:31 Part of the reason 11:32 I'm struck is that Elisha was mentioned there 11:34 and Elisha looked a little like me. 11:38 But it's worth remembering 11:40 that schooling education has had a close affinity 11:44 with religious instruction for a long time. 11:46 Indeed in early America, 11:48 education was the province of the churches. 11:52 Now in our era with the state so much involved everything, 11:56 what a great irony, if the control of money, 12:00 if the application of civil principles 12:04 some of which are based on moral norms 12:07 that religion and churches don't accept 12:10 if those are used to restrict religious education. 12:16 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2016-09-26