Welcome back.
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We had a little time
to gather our breathe
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before we get right
into this heavy stuff again
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but, Bruce, talking
about the culture war
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that this perhaps represented
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very much front and center
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in this pending
legislation in California
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that could
negatively impact our schools,
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who you would
hope would fend off
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if it's to force them
into a different moral norm
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that the Bible recommends.
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But do you think that
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there is an element
of provocation on this
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that those representing
the new found rights
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of the gay and transgender,
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homosexual and
lesbian community.
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You know, by the
way the description gets
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bigger and
bigger, have you noticed?
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Yes.
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Queue is the latest addition
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those who are
questioning what's going on.
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But you know, these
people in the civil sense.
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Yeah, they have every right
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to seek rights through,
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you know, public forum
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and so and the
society is moved that way.
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Even I could see
sign of the times,
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but this is the civil right.
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But for them then to
take this new found right
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and use this as a cudgel against
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someone of a faith and a moral
viewpoint that disagree with,
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I think it's a little...
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Well, it's more
than little unfortunate.
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It's a provocation.
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I said before the break
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that they determine
to make the church kneel,
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so the question is why is that?
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Why would they use a cudgel?
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Why would they want
the church to kneel?
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And I think the
answer is very easy
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when you think about this.
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What is the principle opposition
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to homosexual rights,
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homosexual marriage?
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It's probably in Christians.
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I mean there is no sort of other
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organized opposition.
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Well, it's true.
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There is no other
sort of more I believe,
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all the opposition is based
on church's religious belief,
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just like with
the Civil Rights Act,
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the churches were in
favor of nondiscrimination
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with regard to raise.
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In this case a
large number of churches
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and believers think that
this is an immoral activity,
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that's why if they are
going to achieve normalcy,
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that they are just
like everyone else,
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they've got to
eradicate this belief,
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they've got to bury this belief
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that it is
immoral and inconsistent
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with biblical principles.
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Well, I would
take it even further.
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I've said it on
this program before.
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I was like a little
spongier when I was a kid,
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and in Australia my father
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often used to
take us or me I think,
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I don't remember my
mother going or my sister.
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He would take me...
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In fact I know, it was just me
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on the Saturday night.
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He was a temperance leader
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and so we would
go downtown Sydney
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and he would go
to the different pubs
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and so want to talk
to the different drunks
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and so on,
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so he's witnessed to that one,
that was an interesting thing.
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But before that Sunday...
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They allow small
children to be in bars and...
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Not...
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Well, it was another era.
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I just wanted to know.
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But anyhow he's witnessing,
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but my point is
these were two activities
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that I remember
clearly and then it was either,
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I think it was
this Sunday afternoon,
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go down to Hyde Park in Sydney
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where in the tradition
of the Hyde Park in London,
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anybody can stick a
soap box and rant everyone,
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talk against the government,
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talk communism,
sedition, this was the cold war,
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but you could get up there
and no one would bother you,
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well, they could bother you.
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Free speech so they can scream
back at the guy and all that.
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And I remember listening
to a whole bunch of people,
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I think probably
the best connection
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to make as a
socialist secular agenda,
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but deep Marxist stuff, right,
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and they were railing
against the patristic society,
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the western society,
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they wanted to
overturn all the norms.
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And I believe
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and I want to rent
this stuff over the years.
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It's not that every
gay or transgender person
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had deepen to the philosophy,
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many of them live
their lifestyle and they...
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but the
philosophical engine driving
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this whole movement
is connected with that,
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I think it doesn't just
want to empower their lifestyle,
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it wants to breakdown
the whole Judeo-Christian
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what they see
patristic structure of society,
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destroy the family
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and the whole
hierarchical system
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as they see it,
it's quiet revolutionary.
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And it's coming out of
the educational institutions
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of higher learn.
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Yes, there are lot of those that
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are pushing not the same stuff,
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but the same a
grand social agenda
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or at least the principles
that are driving this agenda.
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See I might rare bird to be
a conservative law professor.
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Yes, I know.
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I just read a survey,
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in fact there
are several surveys,
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80 percent of law professors
in the country are liberals
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that is to the extent that
they express their position,
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only about 11 percent
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of law professors
are conservatives,
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and in the colleges there
is a very similar mix effect
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that may be more liberals
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and so all these
students are coming through,
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and some of them are
being taught by actual Marxist,
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I mean, you know, there is...
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I read some survey that was
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discussing a
comparison of number of Marxist
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who are teaching
in the college system
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as opposed to conservatives,
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it's kind of a frightening thing
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so when you say that
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there is some sort
of unifying theory.
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I doubt that the
individual students
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have connected all the dots,
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but these
instructors are probably
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connected all the dots.
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And it's been trendy
for a long, long time.
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Back when I was a
kid, it was marginal
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because it was in the beginnings
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of the Cold War
and communism was cast
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as the absolutely evil
in Australia and America.
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You know, it was a
Judeo-Christian castle
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we were defending but
those days are gone now.
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The rot is on many, many levels
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and I do believe that
there's a bigger agenda
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than just
empowering their own lifestyle.
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And the aberrant
quirk in this that
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put most people off the
trail was the gay community
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seeking to call their
relationships marriage.
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I've read this stuff,
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they are not for
marriage in any shape,
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form or manner.
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It's basically free
love and free association,
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and you know,
in communist Russia
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which was not
connected in every way
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what they are
thinking, but remember,
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children were
initially at least pulled away
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from their parents
and run in sort of,
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you know, like
the sea lion colony,
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because the words of the state,
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it was a new social experiment
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to pull people
away from the loyalty
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and the control of the parents.
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And so I don't believe
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that marriage is what
this is all about at all.
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It's like the dog
that caught the car.
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Once the dog catches
the car he's not sure
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what it wants do with it.
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I think you're right,
that's been my observation,
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obviously I'm
not an expert on this
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but it seems that monogamy...
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Well, I thought this could be.
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I've read and I
don't read regularly
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but I've read the Blade,
Washington Blade and others,
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and I've seen people writing
in there saying, you know,
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how come we're
pushing for marriage,
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we're not for
this and all of that.
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This is betraying
the, you know, the cause.
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I know within the system
there's agitate their system,
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there is agitation that
even questions they attack,
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but it's worked for them.
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I think it
flushed some Christians
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out in the Bush administration
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for pushing for
the marriage amendment
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which in my view
is an inordinate power
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to try to use the government
to legislate your morality.
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I don't want
the government to be
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defining what a marriage is,
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the church should define it.
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Well, you know, Lincoln,
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when we talk about
these kinds of issues,
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I think it comes back
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to the very important
religious liberty issue
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which is the church
should be able to say
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what it thinks about morality,
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church should
have institutions...
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Not should be able
to, it's obligated to.
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Obligated to, right,
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with regard to the external law,
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they should be able
to say in our schools
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what we think about this.
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They should be
able to hire faculty
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who are consistent
with their beliefs,
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and so what's
really going on here
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and the real threat
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to religious liberty is a threat
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to religious speech in practice.
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And that's the problem,
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I mean, if
homosexuals want to go out
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and have relationships,
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there are all sorts of
things that go on in the country
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that I don't approve of...
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This is one among
many. Right, I don't believe.
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This is a very unfortunate
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part of this in
this particular clash.
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Christians are being
cast more and more as,
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you know, fixated
on this one issue.
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I don't think that could
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or should be or
even is the case.
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Right.
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The fixation particularly
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from a religious
liberty point of view
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is forcing the
churches speech in practice
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and that is the end
goal I believe here.
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Yeah.
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This is the greatest
threat to religious liberty
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that I've seen in my life time.
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Yes, and it's not going to
ease of any time soon, is it?
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I fear not. I fear not once...
00:10:08.94\00:10:11.47
But we need to
keep up the defense.
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Once again as
I've been discussing,
00:10:14.91\00:10:18.15
the Supreme Court is
on the razor's edge here,
00:10:18.18\00:10:22.18
and who is elected
may very well determine,
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or likely determine
00:10:25.25\00:10:26.99
whether or not there
will be Supreme Court
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that'd be friendly to gay rights
00:10:28.82\00:10:30.49
as opposed to
religious freedom rights.
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Yeah, so there's a lot at stake.
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We're definitely the crest
sides of history, aren't we?
00:10:34.53\00:10:37.43
Yes, yes I think so.
00:10:37.47\00:10:39.70
You know, it's
important for Christians
00:10:39.73\00:10:42.17
to pay attention what's going on
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and be alert to the protection
of their religious liberty.
00:10:44.84\00:10:48.68
These kinds of events
that we've been discussing
00:10:48.71\00:10:52.38
in which people talk
about homosexual rights,
00:10:52.41\00:10:55.25
abortion rights
or what have you,
00:10:55.28\00:10:57.22
generally have an
undertone of religious freedom
00:10:57.25\00:11:01.76
being in jeopardy.
00:11:01.79\00:11:03.19
And so I asked the viewers
00:11:03.22\00:11:05.39
when you look at
these kinds of situations
00:11:05.43\00:11:07.73
to say is this what
appears on the surface,
00:11:07.76\00:11:11.57
or is this ultimately something
that will harm the church
00:11:11.60\00:11:16.00
and harm the
freedom of believers.
00:11:16.04\00:11:20.71
Reading the Bible,
00:11:20.74\00:11:22.08
I'm struck at
the biblical record
00:11:22.11\00:11:25.21
of the schools of the prophets
00:11:25.25\00:11:26.95
that were run in
Old Testament times.
00:11:26.98\00:11:31.09
Part of the reason
00:11:31.12\00:11:32.45
I'm struck is that
Elisha was mentioned there
00:11:32.49\00:11:34.79
and Elisha
looked a little like me.
00:11:34.82\00:11:38.13
But it's worth remembering
00:11:38.16\00:11:40.40
that schooling education
has had a close affinity
00:11:40.43\00:11:44.17
with religious
instruction for a long time.
00:11:44.20\00:11:46.70
Indeed in early America,
00:11:46.74\00:11:48.80
education was the
province of the churches.
00:11:48.84\00:11:52.41
Now in our era with the state
so much involved everything,
00:11:52.44\00:11:56.44
what a great irony,
if the control of money,
00:11:56.48\00:12:00.88
if the application
of civil principles
00:12:00.92\00:12:04.39
some of which are
based on moral norms
00:12:04.42\00:12:07.82
that religion and
churches don't accept
00:12:07.86\00:12:10.46
if those are used to
restrict religious education.
00:12:10.49\00:12:16.43
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:12:16.46\00:12:19.90