Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
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Before the break
with guest Bruce Cameron,
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he'd given a very
detailed and positive report.
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Bruce on these two
recent Supreme Court cases,
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in particular the one
that really cleared the deck
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so that no one
could be compelled
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to participate in that.
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Right, Harris V. Quinn.
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Yes, and then the other
one that's very troubling,
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the potential to
force home caregivers
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for that to be
union, required union dues
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that as you were
saying after the break
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would effectively be
paid by the government.
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That's right.
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In fact the government
didn't leave it to the union
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to collect the dues
from these caregivers.
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They took it out of the payment
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that they made
to the caregivers,
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and send it
directly to the owners.
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To me that's extraordinary.
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Oh, if that had gone
through, that would be
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pure government
complicity in the union cause.
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This was going on
in numerous states,
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I mean this was going on
across the United States.
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We've been filing the lawsuits
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to stop this in
the various states,
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the earliest one
was in California.
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You can imagine,
literally millions of dollars
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in every state was being dumped
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into the coffers
of organized labor
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which would then use the money
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to help elect
friendly politicians
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that would
reinforce this scheme.
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It was as I say a scam.
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Now this is happening
in many states, right?
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Oh, many.
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California, Michigan...
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According to party or with both
parties going along with this?
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The states that
were agreeing to those
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were generally states
controlled by democrats.
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Democrats.
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They're friends
of organized labor.
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This program is not partisan
but still in describing,
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you have to realize.
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And the comment
I wanted to make,
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it's come a long way since
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the Republican
President Ronald Reagan
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tilted against the
unions very strongly.
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So to go to where the
government is complicit
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in the union cause is not good.
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Neither is good in my view.
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Right. Well...
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I don't think the government
should be openly antagonistic
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and break up any private,
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or any citizen grouping.
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I agree, labor unions
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voluntarily
supported by the government..
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I thought you would.
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You're opposed to the
non-voluntary perspectives.
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Right. I'm against the
compulsory aspect of it.
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That's the mission of
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the National Right to
Work Legal Defense Foundation
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to defeat the
compulsory aspect of this
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and this was such an abuse,
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because not only was
it compelling caregivers
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to give money to the union,
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but it also had the effect
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of dislocating
the political system
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by dumping millions of dollars
into the union conference,
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that was really taken
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from the welfare
system of the states,
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which made it
particularly ironic
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that welfare dollars are
now supporting labor unions.
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No, this was a case I think
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you said before the break was...
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Decided well but
it was five to four.
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Yes, yes.
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What does that mean to you,
because that's not an, I mean,
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that's a good decision,
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that's not an
overwhelming mandate, why?
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It is the razor's edge.
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You see the next issue on this
would be compulsory union fees,
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constitutional in ordinary
labor relations context.
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And so again, this
five-four was important.
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It was the five conservatives
on the Supreme Court...
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It split pretty
much ideological.
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Right, versus the four liberals
and when Justice Scalia died,
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we lost the fifth vote.
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So, as your
viewers no doubt know
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that Justice
Kennedy is not always
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a reliable vote
for the conservatives,
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Justice Scalia
sometimes, it was not always
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a reliable vote when it
came to organized labor.
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But now that he has
died and so four-four split
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that makes this
upcoming election
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so important for
a person like me,
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who is very invested in
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what the US
Supreme Court is doing
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for individual
liberty and religious freedom.
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You know, we've gone
over this particular case.
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This is the
reason for this program,
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but we're on the Supreme
Court, where do we go from here?
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Is it necessary to have a
balancing figure like Scalia
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or can we rely on just the
most qualified person to go on?
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Well, you know why, why...?
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You and I were
talking about this,
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why do you think the
court needs to be balance it
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ideologically?
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Why should the
court be ideological?
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Well, I want the
court balance with justice
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as that agree with me.
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The conservative
justice, being qualified,
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there are tons of people
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who are qualified both on
the left and on the right.
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And the question is
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where do you want
the country to go,
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one of the decisions
I think we'll discuss is
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the hobby-lobby case,
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a very important
religious liberty case.
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And all of these
things depend on having
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a five member
conservative majority.
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Otherwise, the union
fee cases go down the tubes,
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religious liberty cases go
down the tubes in my opinion.
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What about the theory?
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I'm playing devil's
advocate but the theory
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that competent legal
minds and they're not...
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I've been telling
people and I think I'm right,
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but confirm this,
you don't have to be
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a lawyer or a judge to
be on the Supreme Court,
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rather, there's no
constitutional requirement.
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That's right, that's right.
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It's complex enough though.
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So we think that
you need to be a lawyer
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and have a background...
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They have legal
clerks and so on.
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Legal clerks being people
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who are straight
out of law school,
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they do have
some lifetime clerk...
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Well, you're getting
close to the part of Washington
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that troubles me the most,
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and I've been there
on some of the hearings
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and you can watch sea
span and the grey beards
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and the famous names
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that we see leading the country.
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They're upfront staying things,
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but usually
whispering in the rear row,
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lined up behind them are
all these academy students
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that look like...
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but these are all the
law students and the interns.
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And they're the ones really
that are doing the research,
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that are setting up the scene
for these politicos in my view.
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Well, that's right.
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Since I teach law students,
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I'm an advocate for law students
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and I certainly
want them to be involved
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and of course
the great thing about
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young people being involved
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is that they have energy
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and they're fresh
from their studies
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and this kind of thing.
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But I want to make a point,
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this is just my
personal opinion.
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I sometimes joke, my
wife's a very good cook,
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and I sometimes joke
that there is certain irony
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that in the United States
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we're all being
fed by high school
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and college
students working in McDonalds
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and all the fast food places.
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But the government is the same
and that's really a good thing.
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In some ways the
baton is already passed,
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because there is an
awful lot of young legal minds
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and other interns
of different types
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that are very much part of
the machinery of government.
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It's not just the
old guys, the old guard.
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There you're talking
about the distinction
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between knowledge and
ability, not just age.
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People in
McDonalds are not the same
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as the people
that are advising...
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All analogies
breakdown if you're up...
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Right.
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But see, here's
the thing about this.
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Why should we have a
lawyer on the Supreme Court
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as opposed to a non-lawyer?
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Why should we have
an experienced judge
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on the Supreme Court,
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promoted to the Supreme Court
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as opposed to an
inexperienced judge?
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It's the same reason
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why you don't want
to have brain surgery
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done by a resident.
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You want someone who
has knowledge, experience,
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someone who has
thought about the issues before
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and has the kind
of skill on his side.
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I think it makes perfect sense.
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But in seminars that
I take, I tell people
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that this isn't really a
requirement to be a lawyer,
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or a judge in the Supreme Court.
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That's correct. That is correct.
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I think it's a
practical requirement.
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What can I say, you
are correct in the...
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But most people
don't know that...
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And we're in some
ways encouraging the viewer
00:09:02.94\00:09:09.18
that it is some professional
00:09:09.21\00:09:10.55
because of the
expectations usually,
00:09:10.58\00:09:13.25
you know, it said
openly, well, you know,
00:09:13.28\00:09:17.85
juror with great experience
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and that's pretty
much the qualifications
00:09:19.95\00:09:23.06
when for my
knowledge of history,
00:09:23.09\00:09:25.09
soon as they just pluck someone
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out of the
political firmament put there.
00:09:26.49\00:09:29.16
In fact, wasn't
Grover Cleveland,
00:09:29.20\00:09:31.73
was it Cleveland that became...
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I don't know.
00:09:33.34\00:09:34.67
One of the President's
became a Supreme Court...
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Oh, yes absolutely.
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Supreme Court
justice after his tenure.
00:09:37.44\00:09:39.37
That is correct.
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I hear that Hilary Clinton,
if she selected will appoint
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Barrack Obama to
the Supreme Court.
00:09:46.35\00:09:48.55
That of course would be
one of my worst nightmares.
00:09:48.58\00:09:50.95
But with regard to the
issues that we're talking about,
00:09:50.99\00:09:55.06
but here's the thing,
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in any field that requires
00:09:56.56\00:10:00.00
skill, knowledge, ability,
00:10:00.03\00:10:04.10
you are looking for
someone, who is experienced.
00:10:04.13\00:10:06.80
And that's the reason
why you want that. Now...
00:10:06.84\00:10:09.24
And now and then that
experience plays off a set up.
00:10:09.27\00:10:12.61
Hopefully, it
always plays off...
00:10:12.64\00:10:14.78
No, but I mean,
when we're dealing
00:10:14.81\00:10:16.14
with the Supreme Court,
00:10:16.18\00:10:17.51
there's legitimate
reasons why a lot of the people
00:10:17.55\00:10:19.85
in the religious
liberty fraternity
00:10:19.88\00:10:22.52
are troubled by things
00:10:22.55\00:10:23.89
coming out of the Supreme Court.
00:10:23.92\00:10:25.25
But it's not
all bad by any means
00:10:25.29\00:10:26.96
and this is one
good case I think.
00:10:26.99\00:10:31.16
Oh, that is correct.
00:10:31.19\00:10:32.53
I will tell you, if you
move the clock back 20 years,
00:10:32.56\00:10:36.46
we were getting fairly
consistent bad decisions
00:10:36.50\00:10:41.27
from the Supreme Court
dealing with religious liberty.
00:10:41.30\00:10:43.94
Yeah.
00:10:43.97\00:10:45.31
In the last five
years, we have gotten
00:10:45.34\00:10:48.14
several excellent decisions
from the Supreme Court...
00:10:48.18\00:10:51.61
And one that's on the
table that we want to talk about
00:10:51.65\00:10:54.38
in another program.
00:10:54.42\00:10:55.75
That's right. Yeah.
00:10:55.78\00:10:57.12
So, yeah, this is my view.
00:10:57.15\00:10:58.92
You know, lot of, lot of,
00:10:58.95\00:11:00.29
especially Seventh-day Adventist
00:11:00.32\00:11:01.66
when we have afternoon meetings,
00:11:01.69\00:11:03.02
and they are paranoid
about one thing or another
00:11:03.06\00:11:04.59
and there's good
reasons to be worried.
00:11:04.63\00:11:07.00
But I don't think overall
00:11:07.03\00:11:09.56
the Supreme
Court is the main one,
00:11:09.60\00:11:12.57
you need to just watch it,
because there's the even flow
00:11:12.60\00:11:15.20
and people like you
have to make an argument
00:11:15.24\00:11:18.81
before that make a case.
00:11:18.84\00:11:20.18
I mean you have to
reinvent yourself all the time
00:11:20.21\00:11:23.01
with them, but I don't see it
00:11:23.04\00:11:27.32
as a out of
control or a lost cause.
00:11:27.35\00:11:30.59
No, hardly.
00:11:30.62\00:11:32.25
But see I think we are...
00:11:32.29\00:11:33.96
With some of the fund
raising going up to some groups
00:11:33.99\00:11:36.52
as you know
portrays the court that way.
00:11:36.56\00:11:39.03
It's pretty much just
legislating from the bench
00:11:39.06\00:11:42.00
and you know the world's
come to an end and that's it...
00:11:42.03\00:11:45.13
Well, there's
certainly is that concern
00:11:45.17\00:11:47.50
and that happens I think on
both the left and the right.
00:11:47.54\00:11:54.01
But the bottom-line is
00:11:54.04\00:11:57.81
you expect the
judges will make a decision
00:11:57.85\00:12:00.78
based upon the law
in the US Constitution.
00:12:00.82\00:12:04.55
That is the law
passed by Congress
00:12:04.59\00:12:07.46
and the United
States Constitution.
00:12:07.49\00:12:09.99
Unfortunately that
doesn't always happen.
00:12:10.03\00:12:12.49
So they use a
biblical analogies to the law
00:12:12.53\00:12:15.30
and to the testimony.
00:12:15.33\00:12:17.43
Well, that's what we hope
the Supreme Court will do.
00:12:17.47\00:12:21.44
Make decisions based on
the United States Constitution,
00:12:21.47\00:12:25.37
based upon the
laws passed by Congress,
00:12:25.41\00:12:28.48
and not based upon their
own personal preferences.
00:12:28.51\00:12:33.52
There is no question
00:12:33.55\00:12:35.88
that in the
United States in our era,
00:12:35.92\00:12:40.46
if never before, or
and as never before,
00:12:40.49\00:12:44.19
the Supreme Court is
of supreme importance.
00:12:44.23\00:12:48.13
They don't
legislate from the bench
00:12:48.16\00:12:50.50
in the classic sense,
00:12:50.53\00:12:52.07
but so many important issues
00:12:52.10\00:12:53.77
that are coming before the court
00:12:53.80\00:12:55.54
that we need to be careful,
00:12:55.57\00:12:58.41
that in the case of
religious liberty particularly,
00:12:58.44\00:13:00.78
that they resolve it correctly.
00:13:00.81\00:13:03.08
There is no question
that all governments,
00:13:03.11\00:13:07.48
all across the world
given the opportunity
00:13:07.52\00:13:11.22
will intrude into
the lives of individuals.
00:13:11.25\00:13:14.16
In this case that was
discussed on this program
00:13:14.19\00:13:16.52
where private
caregivers in the home
00:13:16.56\00:13:19.96
might even be
regarded as union workers
00:13:20.00\00:13:23.16
and forced to pay
union bills or union dues.
00:13:23.20\00:13:26.70
We don't want
that sort of thing.
00:13:26.74\00:13:28.34
Religious liberty
would argue against it.
00:13:28.37\00:13:30.54
Civil liberty
would argue against it.
00:13:30.57\00:13:33.31
It's very important that
the judges judge correctly
00:13:33.34\00:13:37.08
and not as the Bible
says pervert justice.
00:13:37.11\00:13:41.05
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:13:41.08\00:13:44.95