Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Greg Hamilton
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000327A
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00:27 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:30 This is the program bringing you news, 00:31 views, discussion and even a little argumentation 00:35 on religious liberty issues. 00:37 My name is Lincoln Steed, editor of Liberty Magazine, 00:41 and my guest is Greg Hamilton, 00:44 President of the North Pacific Religious Liberty Association. 00:48 Well, I sure hope your voice gets better there, Lincoln. 00:49 Yeah. 00:51 As long as my mind is working, I can force it out so. 00:54 But at least I've got a guest and a little pinch 00:56 I can let you talk through most of it. 01:00 Some of my viewers might even be happy that I say less. 01:04 Let's talk about religion 01:06 'cause it goes with the religious liberty. 01:08 There is a lot of political activity of late, 01:11 not least of which because 01:12 the US presidential election coming up. 01:15 But have you notice that in the US 01:17 and in other countries also, 01:19 there is quite a rise in the influence 01:21 in political involvement of different religious leaders 01:24 and religious powers. 01:26 Yes. I think that's because 01:28 the people at large in the world 01:32 have come to distrust their leaders, 01:35 they've came to distrust politicians 01:38 and more and more they're turning 01:39 to their religious leaders. 01:41 At the local level and even on the national level, 01:45 wherever that may be 01:47 and especially in the United Sates of America, 01:49 you see it here, 01:50 and you see more and more world leaders turning to Rome 01:53 for answers especially to a pope 01:56 who is very inclusive not only of all religions, 02:00 but doesn't matter what kind of leader you are, 02:02 doesn't matter whether you're communist or a capitalist, 02:05 it doesn't matter. 02:06 I mean, the proof of that is Cuba, 02:09 and what's happened in Cuba as of late? 02:12 That's not a question that he led the way 02:14 on the political breakthrough in US and Cuba. 02:16 Right. 02:18 And, and that rapprochement 02:24 between Cuba and President Obama 02:26 was very much orchestrated by Pope Francis I. 02:31 We've got an article coming up 02:32 in Liberty written by an author that I respect a lot, 02:36 and he makes the case 02:38 and he might not see this initially 02:40 that there is a rise of tribalism in the world. 02:44 We're going back to sort of a tribal identity 02:47 and a big part of tribalism apart from racial mark is, is, 02:52 well, as Nebuchadnezzar says, you know, 02:53 you don't respect me and my gods. 02:56 This is the sort of the religion of the group 03:01 and I just wonder if that's not what's happening, 03:03 we're falling back on rather than 03:06 on the modern devices of political structures, 03:08 religious sensibility, 03:11 which is good and yet troubles them, right, 03:13 if it's done wrongly or if it's allowed to have, 03:17 have a veto power over other realities. 03:21 Economist Magazine, just of few years ago 03:23 put forward a cover of all the different protests 03:27 and revolutions that have been taking place, 03:30 and it says the world is in flames. 03:32 And I found it interesting because their solution was that 03:37 more and more the people are definitely 03:39 looking to their religious leaders for answers. 03:42 They're tired of the status quo. 03:44 They're tired of the "establishment" 03:47 and they're turning either to the religious leaders 03:50 or to secularism or some, 03:54 some answers beyond the status quo. 04:00 Well, you know... 04:02 Especially among the younger generation... 04:03 I was gonna throw... 04:04 You know, I'm always a contrarian 04:06 just the test of you. 04:07 I was gonna say where is the secularism, 04:10 but it's true at the moment Bernie Sanders, 04:13 which is largely a secular 04:15 socialist appeal that's working, 04:17 but beyond that I can't promise. 04:18 Well, he promises free tuition, 04:20 and that draws all those thousands of kids 04:24 out to hear him speak is 04:26 because they want the free tuition... 04:28 Yeah, It could be that simple, but... 04:31 As for a number of political scientists 04:33 are saying on television, 04:35 they're saying that that's really 04:37 what the kids are drawn to. 04:39 There is others reasons obviously 04:41 in terms of economic disparity and so on, 04:44 that's the big factor obviously 04:45 which is his main driving message, 04:47 but it's the one thing he keeps pushing 04:51 and that's free tuition for college students 04:53 that's causing them to come out in mass. 04:55 Yeah. 04:56 But I do see a little bit reading between the lines, 05:00 I think this, this immigrant shock in Europe 05:04 is starting to have European's think 05:06 of what is their religious identity, 05:08 because they're faced with the religious other, 05:10 it's quite belligerent. 05:13 And the US, I always believe doesn't take much to trepid up 05:16 the sort of gotten contrarian. 05:18 You know, American exceptionalism 05:20 and all of that is sort of a state religion, 05:22 or religious sensibility because it's Christianity, 05:25 but it's a strange hybrid. 05:28 But I recently had an author put together an article, 05:32 it turns out we may not print in Liberty, 05:35 but commenting on in Russia with Vladimir Putin, 05:39 with the collapse of communism, 05:41 Eastern Orthodox Church reasserted its ancient role, 05:45 but something even more extraordinary 05:47 has happened very recently with Putin 05:49 and the Orthodox leaders. 05:52 They've joined at the closest possible level 05:55 and Putin is now saying that Russia is a religious state, 06:00 he is identifying the fortunes of the faith and the nation. 06:03 And Vladimir Putin and the Russian Orthodox 06:08 Archbishop Kirill have found common ground 06:12 and you see very much of a church state united 06:15 emerging in Russia right now, 06:17 which is significant because the Archbishop Kirill 06:22 and Pope Francis met in Havana, Cuba recently 06:25 Yes, it's a good point. 06:27 Most people didn't notice that it was very significant. 06:28 Yeah, they met and their main cause was to set aside 06:33 their differences over Ukraine and, 06:36 you know, the Crimea and the border there 06:41 in that inflammatory situation, 06:43 but to come together to join hands in unity 06:47 led by the United States as well 06:51 to join forces to, 06:56 to condemn the persecution 07:00 and death of Christians throughout the Middle East, 07:03 especially to find a common solution 07:06 to how to defeat ISIS 07:08 as the ISIS being the new Nazism in the world. 07:12 Yeah. 07:13 And that's why they came together, 07:14 and also the second reason was to see 07:17 if they could join hands to find a way 07:20 to bring Christians of all stripes, 07:22 specifically Orthodoxy and Catholicism together 07:26 throughout Europe and Eastern Europe. 07:29 Not in an evangelistic sense, 07:30 in fact Archbishop Kirill says 07:32 that's the nice thing about this pope, 07:34 this pope doesn't insist 07:37 on evangelicalizing or evangelizing Orthodox, 07:43 Russian Orthodox peoples, and so, 07:45 we feel comfortable meeting with this pope. 07:48 I mean it was their first meeting in what, 07:51 several thousand years. 07:53 Well, they've had some informal meetings. 07:55 Yes, but I mean between the two big leaders, 07:58 east and west coming together, it was very significant 08:01 and people seem to have missed that. 08:02 Yes, and I would. 08:04 And it's a most significant development. 08:07 I know they have, they even had 08:09 some discussions about the great schism 08:11 'cause it's a doctrinal division 08:14 that was routable for this, 08:16 and not to mention, 08:18 not to get lightly on the fourth crusade 08:21 I think it was where Rome 08:24 set the crusade against these in church. 08:27 But yes, I think we're seeing 08:29 a coming together as never before. 08:31 And although to be fair to everybody, 08:35 the Catholic Church may not be pushing 08:38 for inclusion in Roman Catholicism, 08:40 but they're pretty, 08:41 it's pretty much given that the pope is the primate. 08:46 I mean, he is calling the shots, 08:48 it's not a coming together of equals, 08:49 they don't see it that way. 08:51 Every year The Council on Foreign Relations 08:53 based in New York City calls me up 08:55 and literally invites me to come 08:58 round trip flight paid for 09:00 as well as my hotel nights in New York City 09:04 to attend their Annual Religion and Foreign Policy Conference 09:07 on Madison Avenue at their headquarters. 09:09 And there's about 300 religious leaders 09:11 across the United States who are picked for that, 09:14 just common low grassroots like myself 09:17 here in United States to discuss the big issues, 09:20 and the number one issue that has pervaded 09:22 the last three years 09:24 or two and half years has been ISIS. 09:28 How do we get moderate Muslim Imams 09:33 together to unite against ISIS? 09:36 How can we cause Islam to rise up against ISIS? 09:40 How can we cause the religious world to come together 09:45 to unite on the bases of shared 09:48 more political and social values. 09:52 And that's really what the mission is. 09:55 And by the way, these annual conferences are cosponsored 09:58 by the US State Department. 10:00 So it's a very serious thing and I didn't go this year, 10:03 I will not be going this year. 10:05 In fact it's coinciding with our discussions here 10:09 right now in May. 10:10 And so I, you know, 10:13 I have chosen to be here and to be in Washington DC 10:16 at the General Conference instead 10:19 because those dates conflicted, 10:21 but otherwise I'd be in New York City right now. 10:22 Not least the Liberty dinner, right? 10:23 Yes. 10:25 And so I find this significant that more and more, 10:28 even Secretary of State John Kerry said recently 10:31 in a Boston Globe. 10:32 He said, "You know, 10:34 if I had do it all over again, 10:35 I would major in religions 10:36 instead of political science and law." 10:38 And he said, you know, why? 10:39 Because religion is at the foundation 10:41 of all the world's problems right now. 10:44 You've got extremists, 10:45 and then you got the vast majority 10:47 who need to stand up and speak, 10:50 but we need to understand these religions 10:53 in order to be able to combat the extremism, 10:57 so right now the focus is on extremists 11:01 and extremism which is a very dangerous formula. 11:04 I know, in his speech to the US Congress, 11:07 the pope warned us, 11:08 he says we must devoid or reject, 11:11 I think was the word he used, 11:13 also to fundamentalism and extremism. 11:15 Yes, right. 11:16 And yet, on one level, 11:18 I don't know about you 11:19 but I'm happy to say that I'm a fundamentalist. 11:20 Right. 11:22 And to somebody else I may be an extremist. 11:24 Yes. 11:25 You know, it probably seems extremist 11:27 to a causal Bible reader 11:29 that I would worship on Sabbath and keep it rigorously. 11:33 I wouldn't go as for as fundamentalism for myself, 11:36 but I understand what you're saying 11:38 in terms of being true to your faith. 11:39 We've come to make it, to use the word. 11:42 Right. 11:43 No, I'm not a fundamentalist, I'm not an extremist, 11:45 but this is what I say is the danger, 11:48 because the termed has been shifted, 11:51 and has become very pejorative... 11:55 Extremist has probably always been pejorative 11:56 but not fundamentalist. 11:58 Yes. 11:59 In fact, I'm old enough to remember in this country, 12:01 in the United States, where we are filming, 12:03 a fundamentalist was... 12:05 If you were a fundamentalist Christian, 12:06 that was a good thing. 12:08 Yes. Yes. 12:09 Now nobody wants to be called that. 12:12 And I just wish in, 12:13 in talking about the rise of Islamic fundamentalism 12:17 in its violent elements 12:20 that they would specify this is the aspect 12:22 because we just use the terms generically, 12:25 and it can easily float to someone else 12:27 who doesn't fit the mainline mould. 12:30 But why do religious leaders intervene? 12:32 Why are they enjoying this moment in the sunshine? 12:35 Oh, I think it's precisely because of what Kerry said 12:38 that so many of these issues that root religious elements 12:43 or religious conflicts. 12:45 I think it doesn't just feed their egos, 12:47 but I think it feed their 12:48 need to help solve the world's problems. 12:50 And I think we're seeing church and state 12:52 emerging joining together in very subtle ways 12:55 that we're not paying attention to. 12:56 And it's through both the ecumenical 12:58 and interfaith moments throughout the United States 13:01 and throughout the world. 13:02 Operates on many levels and it's a long time 13:04 since on this program we've talked about it. 13:08 I see we need to take a break so, 13:10 but even the US military has gone through 13:12 several recent phases of where "fundamentalist, 13:17 evangelical identity is sort of become melted 13:21 with the military attitudes." 13:24 Oh, yes, very much. 13:25 Like I remember reading even in Harper's magazine 13:28 where the chaplain over there was giving them, 13:31 you know, hype talk to the troops 13:33 and they went off immediately after the talk on their vans, 13:37 or on their vehicles they wrote that Jesus killed Muhammad. 13:41 We'll be back after a short break 13:43 to continue this discussion, and see where it goes. |
Revised 2016-08-15