Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Greg Hamilton
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000324B
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00:05 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:07 Before the break with Greg Hamilton, 00:09 we were deep into the weeds of party history 00:12 and American foundational principles. 00:15 We probably should make a note of correction 00:18 and it was brought up just a few minutes ago... 00:21 Wendell Willkie. Wendell Willkie. 00:23 who ran for president changed parties from Democrat, 00:27 he was a Catholic but from Democrat to Republican 00:30 to run against Franklin Delano Roosevelt. 00:32 I said, he was just a Democrat. 00:34 But he actually ran as president as a Republican, 00:37 so I wanted to clear that. 00:38 It's fascinating which I think kind of sow the seeds 00:40 at that time for a Republican who is conservative 00:44 but a previous, previously Democrat 00:47 sort of was the future forerunner of today's 00:50 Republican Party that's dominated 00:52 by formerly Southern Democrats today. 00:57 Maybe I'm flying in the face of history 01:00 but it seems to me the Republican Party lately, 01:03 not necessarily in this current election 01:06 has been drifting into the British system 01:08 where they have maintained strong party order. 01:14 And like even in dealing with Obama, 01:16 they wouldn't, none of them would break ranks even... 01:18 President Obama, yes. 01:19 With President Obama, none of them would break ranks 01:21 and even on the Supreme Court appointment. 01:23 You know, they're holding an incredible line, 01:25 that's how the British system as it's called. 01:27 If you cross the floor to support the other party, 01:31 that's an element of betrayal. 01:34 So the party line is rigorously maintained, 01:38 but for a lot of the U.S. history it wasn't there... 01:41 It's more common that people, 01:42 imagine for people to change parties. 01:44 Oh, absolutely... 01:45 And I don't think inflexible, rigid, 01:50 old boy or you know the Tammany type. 01:56 Yeah. 01:57 Most people what they want, 01:59 at least with the Tammany Hall like 02:00 the semi mafia type party control is not good. 02:04 And I don't know why people are always saying 02:06 third parties are not good. 02:08 There are plenty of countries in the world 02:09 with constitutional democracies and representative systems 02:13 that have multiple parties, 02:15 and if you have lots of parties, 02:17 I think it leads to a more egalitarian rule 02:20 where two or three small parties 02:22 have to join together to form a government. 02:25 Then they, they have to pay attention to the various causes 02:30 within their own party coalition 02:33 and they can be removed very easily. 02:36 That's all fascinating. 02:37 I think the Democratic Party just to clarify things 02:41 we've talked about the transformation 02:44 of the Republican Party 02:45 how it's no longer the party of Lincoln, 02:46 it's actually the party of the Confederate south. 02:50 You now have however a Democratic Party, 02:54 that spouses to be the party of Lincoln these days 02:58 which it has been since the advent of John F. Kennedy 03:02 and Lyndon Johnson, The great deal, 03:04 The Civil Rights Movement, The Voting Rights Act, 03:07 The Civil Rights Act in 1964, 03:09 and The Voting Rights Act of 1965. 03:12 But what you see is sort of an embracement 03:15 of civil rights run amok. 03:17 And so this embracing and to show themselves 03:21 as the party of Lincoln really, 03:23 when you look at the most recent issues 03:25 whether you're talking about same sex marriage 03:28 or you're talking about transgender rights, 03:31 and the whole bath room issue that we here in North Carolina 03:35 and elsewhere these days. 03:37 It's a fascinating turn of events for a party 03:42 that seems to be going down a slippery slope 03:45 of embracing anything in the name of civil rights 03:48 and in the name of equal protection. 03:49 Yeah. 03:51 And I think that's problematic. 03:52 So we're back to were we started in another program. 03:56 As a Christian, Seventh-day Adventist Christian, 03:59 how do you vote for the party? 04:01 It's one thing to vote for an individual. 04:03 How do you vote for it when it's a movement they faced it, 04:06 how the things have been? 04:08 Ellen White saw this, she says, 04:09 "We cannot with safety take part in... 04:12 we cannot labor to please men, excuse me. 04:14 We cannot with safety vote for political parties, 04:17 for we do not know whom we are voting for." 04:19 We see the transformation of these parties 04:22 who both clearly with the right their Christian rights 04:25 and the Southern Confederate Tea Party 04:29 based Republican Party. 04:31 You look at that and they're a threat to the constitutional 04:34 separation of church and state especially with their alliance 04:38 with conservative Catholics, okay. 04:40 And then you've got the Left, okay, 04:43 who emphasizes this civil rights run amok, 04:47 which tends to now threaten religious freedom 04:51 from another direction. 04:52 That was certainly competing rights. 04:55 Yes. 04:56 So you've got, you've got a problem here 04:59 and I think Ellen White saw this way in advance. 05:03 We cannot with safety vote for political parties 05:05 for we did not we who we're voting for. 05:07 Now, she is saying, "Don't be party loyal. 05:11 Vote independently." 05:12 She is not saying, "Don't vote." 05:14 A lot of people say, 05:15 Ellen White says we shouldn't vote. 05:17 No, that's not what she says. 05:18 She is trying to help us 05:20 actually have a coherent conversation about voting 05:24 when she is writing this. 05:25 Oh, I think it's, to me it's clear that 05:28 we have obligations and expectations 05:31 in our community and what voting is one of them. 05:35 We should do it. 05:37 Now, I'll bring up the topic that off camera 05:39 you and I were discussing. 05:41 It's one thing to vote, should we be forced to vote. 05:45 Yeah, tell us about... 05:47 your Australian experience? 05:49 Well, the Australian system is modeled in many ways 05:52 on the United States Constitution. 05:54 I mean not by chance by, by... 05:57 But not on the issue of voting. 05:58 No, but it was the first country in the world 06:01 to have secret voting which of course, 06:03 the United States has now. 06:05 That when someone's looking over your shoulder 06:08 and knowing how you vote, 06:09 you could be harassed in your community 06:11 or by government or whatever, so that's a very good thing, 06:13 and the other thing in Australia 06:15 there's 100 percent voter participation 06:18 because you are expected to vote 06:20 and there's a fine if you don't. 06:22 You don't get sent to prison, but there's a fine 06:25 and so essentially everybody votes. 06:27 To their credit in Australia, they have a religious exemption 06:30 and when I was there, I never voted. 06:34 And not purely because of principle 06:38 but all I had to do when I got the fine notice was write 06:41 I have religious objections and it was gone. 06:43 So you're forced in Australia to exercise your citizenship. 06:48 In another words, essentially if you don't vote, 06:51 you get taxed, you get penalized for the tax. 06:53 It sounds like... 06:55 How much is that tax? 06:56 You're debating the, the medical... 06:58 How much is that tax? 07:00 $30, you said? 07:01 Yeah, I think it was... 07:03 Well, it was many years ago 25 I think it was the fine. 07:04 So what it would be now? 07:05 I don't know but it's not, 07:07 it's not a make or break amount. 07:10 But their intention is to encourage 07:12 full citizen participation. 07:15 Now it's a little dangerous in the United States 07:18 even though you might not agree on 07:19 how you get there when you can have as our members 07:23 only about a third of the potential electorate 07:27 they vote in the presidential election, isn't it? 07:29 Yes, and I think the Australian way is a democratic 07:33 social experiment run amok, I think in America I personally 07:37 I'm opposed to the Australian experiment. 07:40 I wouldn't want that, I mean, 07:42 to me to stay home and not vote is the privilege 07:45 and right of every American citizen. 07:49 So I mean, I'm off for voting, don't misunderstand me here. 07:53 I think it's, I think it's a good way for Christians 07:57 to exercise their citizenship rights. 08:00 and I think that and their privileges 08:03 and I think that to not use that 08:05 and to stay home, I think is unfortunate. 08:09 I wouldn't call it entirely you're responsible, 08:11 but I think it's, I think it's unfortunate. 08:13 They should, they should look at this as an opportunity 08:16 to exercise their right to vote 08:19 who they think is the best candidate. 08:21 Now, if they don't feel either candidate is good 08:24 for the country then staying home is, 08:26 is actually a good thing. 08:28 What a lot of, I know I haven't voted 08:31 but I know a lot of people in Australia do... 08:36 if they feel they want to stay home 08:38 when they vote they do it wrongly, 08:43 check the wrong number of box or whatever 08:44 and it's called voting informally I think. 08:47 In other words it's not, it's not counted 08:49 because you disqualify yourself. 08:51 You have no idea how many times I've written in my own name 08:55 when, when I didn't like either presidential candidate. 08:59 Well, I will know when you were elected president. 09:03 I doubt if that would ever happen. 09:05 We've never had a Hamilton for a president. 09:08 In fact, they even tried to take Alexander Hamilton off 09:10 the ten dollar bill. 09:12 That is really bad news. 09:13 But you mentioned earlier that 09:15 it's the tradition of the United States 09:17 withholding the vote, 09:19 I think that came directly from Cromwell's England 09:24 and the Civil War period, 09:26 because it was the matter of the king 09:27 wanting to raise funds 09:29 that really determined the power and parliament 09:31 wanted to withhold the power of the purse. 09:33 You're right, that is a Protestant tradition 09:36 that emanates from that time period in England 09:39 that they brought with them 09:41 as far as the Puritans were concerned, 09:43 they brought with them. 09:44 And, you know, it's one way of accomplishing 09:46 a certain control over what your officials are doing. 09:51 But yeah, I think you and I are agreed 09:53 and we need to get this message across to our viewers 09:58 clearly both in the Adventist context, 10:01 I'm talking in a larger Christian view, 10:04 it's not, it shouldn't be forbidden. 10:06 It's not a totally off the table to participate 10:09 in elections as a citizen. 10:11 It's a right. 10:12 Sometimes even an obligation in Australia. 10:16 But you have to bring a moral sense with you, 10:19 or else you could be empowering evil. 10:21 And Ellen White did have a lot to say about 10:24 the projection that you're making 10:28 on behalf of that individual. 10:29 Well, who you vote for, 10:30 who I vote for is really nobody's business. 10:33 And I think that we need to understand one other thing, 10:36 it's not... 10:37 I think Ellen White is really addressing this. 10:39 We should not evangelize to others 10:41 the way we think somebody should vote. 10:44 We should not tell them how to vote. 10:46 We should not debate with them, 10:48 as to who they should vote for. 10:50 I mean we can emphasize religious freedom 10:53 if a candidate has a particular 10:56 strong record on religious freedom. 10:58 You don't consider that, but it's nobody's business, 11:02 not my business your business to tell anybody how to vote. 11:05 And neither should it be a matter of dissension 11:09 within the local church setting. 11:12 Especially, our churches, 11:13 the Seventh-day Adventist Church, 11:14 it's not up to each individual member sitting in a pew to say, 11:19 well, you should vote for so and so and if you don't, 11:21 you're not a good Seventh-day Adventist Christian 11:23 or you're not a Christian, that is wrong. 11:25 No, and I think by and large as a general statement, 11:30 the church assembly should be out of the political business. 11:35 And neither should pastors be preaching from the pulpit 11:38 as who should be voted for 11:41 and who the membership vote for, 11:42 I think that's totally wrong. 11:44 And, you know, that's been the sad tragedy 11:46 of the United States in the last three, four decades 11:50 as public morality dropped 11:52 and some of the actions of the country degenerated 11:55 and the religious right came up with voter registration list 11:58 and all the rest in it, 11:59 and it turned into raw political source 12:01 for as seeking of raw political power. 12:04 The Seventh-day Adventist Church 12:06 does not believe in endorsing any candidates 12:08 or Seventh-day Adventist Church 12:09 does not believe in its policies 12:12 that makes very clear that, 12:14 that candidate should not be endorsed 12:16 from the pulpit or should they even preach 12:20 about political candidates from the pulpit. 12:24 And I want to emphasize that 12:26 the Seventh-day Church encourages each person 12:29 however to vote their conscience 12:31 if they are going to vote. 12:32 It's really up to each individual person to decide 12:36 who or how they want to vote 12:38 and that includes even staying home with the protest vote. 12:42 However, in this program these two segments that we've had, 12:46 part one and part two, to vote or not to vote. 12:49 We should remember that it is not the duty 12:54 or prerogative for anyone to tell anybody how to vote. 12:58 Any discussion of political action 13:00 and the necessity of voting by Christians. 13:04 Any discussion like that among 13:06 Seventh-day Adventists has to take into account 13:09 that pioneer founder Ellen White was very much 13:14 to the fore in the whole anti-alcohol, anti-tobacco 13:18 what became known as the prohibition movement. 13:22 In fact on one occasion she said, that 13:24 "This was such an important issue 13:27 that if necessary Seventh-day Adventist 13:29 should vote on Sabbath. 13:32 Much of our religious accommodation involves around 13:35 asking for an exemption from work 13:37 and other secular worldly things, 13:40 because of the Sabbath issue. 13:41 But if there is an overwhelming moral imperative 13:45 or if there is a cow in the well, 13:47 you are to do it. 13:50 It's a very big point to what degree 13:54 Christians should be involved in the voting process, 13:57 but for Seventh-day Adventists 13:58 it was settled early on moral issues 14:02 demand and involvement. 14:05 Citizenship perhaps require 14:08 or pulls us toward involvement 14:11 but moral issues absolutely demand 14:14 and make it imperative that we have our voice heard 14:18 as Christians in the community. 14:21 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2016-07-28