Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
00:00:05.33\00:00:07.27
Before the break
with Greg Hamilton,
00:00:07.30\00:00:09.17
we were deep into the
weeds of party history
00:00:09.20\00:00:12.77
and American
foundational principles.
00:00:12.81\00:00:15.71
We probably should
make a note of correction
00:00:15.74\00:00:18.01
and it was brought up
just a few minutes ago...
00:00:18.05\00:00:21.02
Wendell
Willkie. Wendell Willkie.
00:00:21.05\00:00:23.69
who ran for president
changed parties from Democrat,
00:00:23.72\00:00:27.42
he was a Catholic but
from Democrat to Republican
00:00:27.46\00:00:30.33
to run against
Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
00:00:30.36\00:00:32.46
I said, he was just a Democrat.
00:00:32.49\00:00:34.76
But he actually ran as
president as a Republican,
00:00:34.80\00:00:37.00
so I wanted to clear that.
00:00:37.03\00:00:38.37
It's fascinating which I
think kind of sow the seeds
00:00:38.40\00:00:40.84
at that time for a
Republican who is conservative
00:00:40.87\00:00:44.77
but a previous,
previously Democrat
00:00:44.81\00:00:47.08
sort of was the
future forerunner of today's
00:00:47.11\00:00:50.88
Republican
Party that's dominated
00:00:50.91\00:00:52.58
by formerly
Southern Democrats today.
00:00:52.61\00:00:57.95
Maybe I'm flying
in the face of history
00:00:57.99\00:01:00.42
but it seems to me the
Republican Party lately,
00:01:00.46\00:01:03.86
not necessarily in
this current election
00:01:03.89\00:01:06.26
has been drifting
into the British system
00:01:06.29\00:01:08.90
where they have
maintained strong party order.
00:01:08.93\00:01:14.17
And like even in
dealing with Obama,
00:01:14.20\00:01:16.27
they wouldn't, none of
them would break ranks even...
00:01:16.30\00:01:18.21
President Obama, yes.
00:01:18.24\00:01:19.57
With President Obama,
none of them would break ranks
00:01:19.61\00:01:21.58
and even on the
Supreme Court appointment.
00:01:21.61\00:01:23.95
You know, they're
holding an incredible line,
00:01:23.98\00:01:25.75
that's how the
British system as it's called.
00:01:25.78\00:01:27.68
If you cross the floor
to support the other party,
00:01:27.72\00:01:31.65
that's an element of betrayal.
00:01:31.69\00:01:34.82
So the party line is
rigorously maintained,
00:01:34.86\00:01:38.09
but for a lot of the U.S.
history it wasn't there...
00:01:38.13\00:01:41.13
It's more common that people,
00:01:41.16\00:01:42.50
imagine for
people to change parties.
00:01:42.53\00:01:44.20
Oh, absolutely...
00:01:44.23\00:01:45.87
And I don't think
inflexible, rigid,
00:01:45.90\00:01:50.61
old boy or you
know the Tammany type.
00:01:50.64\00:01:56.34
Yeah.
00:01:56.38\00:01:57.71
Most people what they want,
00:01:57.75\00:01:59.08
at least with
the Tammany Hall like
00:01:59.11\00:02:00.45
the semi mafia type
party control is not good.
00:02:00.48\00:02:04.29
And I don't know why
people are always saying
00:02:04.32\00:02:06.69
third parties are not good.
00:02:06.72\00:02:08.06
There are plenty of
countries in the world
00:02:08.09\00:02:09.56
with constitutional democracies
and representative systems
00:02:09.59\00:02:13.80
that have multiple parties,
00:02:13.83\00:02:15.56
and if you have lots of parties,
00:02:15.60\00:02:17.03
I think it leads to
a more egalitarian rule
00:02:17.07\00:02:20.27
where two or three small parties
00:02:20.30\00:02:22.87
have to join
together to form a government.
00:02:22.90\00:02:25.61
Then they, they have to pay
attention to the various causes
00:02:25.64\00:02:30.38
within their own party coalition
00:02:30.41\00:02:33.18
and they can be
removed very easily.
00:02:33.21\00:02:36.58
That's all fascinating.
00:02:36.62\00:02:37.95
I think the Democratic
Party just to clarify things
00:02:37.99\00:02:41.72
we've talked
about the transformation
00:02:41.76\00:02:43.99
of the Republican Party
00:02:44.03\00:02:45.36
how it's no longer
the party of Lincoln,
00:02:45.39\00:02:46.90
it's actually the party
of the Confederate south.
00:02:46.93\00:02:50.27
You now have
however a Democratic Party,
00:02:50.30\00:02:54.80
that spouses to be the
party of Lincoln these days
00:02:54.84\00:02:58.61
which it has been since
the advent of John F. Kennedy
00:02:58.64\00:03:02.71
and Lyndon
Johnson, The great deal,
00:03:02.74\00:03:04.71
The Civil Rights
Movement, The Voting Rights Act,
00:03:04.75\00:03:07.12
The Civil Rights Act in 1964,
00:03:07.15\00:03:09.08
and The Voting
Rights Act of 1965.
00:03:09.12\00:03:12.05
But what you see is
sort of an embracement
00:03:12.09\00:03:15.12
of civil rights run amok.
00:03:15.16\00:03:17.09
And so this embracing
and to show themselves
00:03:17.13\00:03:21.73
as the party of Lincoln really,
00:03:21.76\00:03:23.87
when you look at
the most recent issues
00:03:23.90\00:03:25.93
whether you're talking
about same sex marriage
00:03:25.97\00:03:28.64
or you're talking
about transgender rights,
00:03:28.67\00:03:31.47
and the whole bath room issue
that we here in North Carolina
00:03:31.51\00:03:35.54
and elsewhere these days.
00:03:35.58\00:03:37.41
It's a fascinating
turn of events for a party
00:03:37.45\00:03:42.42
that seems to be
going down a slippery slope
00:03:42.45\00:03:45.69
of embracing anything
in the name of civil rights
00:03:45.72\00:03:48.39
and in the name
of equal protection.
00:03:48.42\00:03:49.89
Yeah.
00:03:49.92\00:03:51.26
And I think that's problematic.
00:03:51.29\00:03:52.63
So we're back to were we
started in another program.
00:03:52.66\00:03:56.43
As a Christian,
Seventh-day Adventist Christian,
00:03:56.46\00:03:59.23
how do you vote for the party?
00:03:59.27\00:04:01.64
It's one thing to
vote for an individual.
00:04:01.67\00:04:03.51
How do you vote for it when
it's a movement they faced it,
00:04:03.54\00:04:06.71
how the things have been?
00:04:06.74\00:04:08.08
Ellen White saw this, she says,
00:04:08.11\00:04:09.81
"We cannot with
safety take part in...
00:04:09.84\00:04:12.25
we cannot labor to
please men, excuse me.
00:04:12.28\00:04:14.88
We cannot with safety
vote for political parties,
00:04:14.92\00:04:17.75
for we do not know
whom we are voting for."
00:04:17.79\00:04:19.89
We see the
transformation of these parties
00:04:19.92\00:04:22.66
who both clearly with the
right their Christian rights
00:04:22.69\00:04:25.96
and the Southern
Confederate Tea Party
00:04:25.99\00:04:29.70
based Republican Party.
00:04:29.73\00:04:31.50
You look at that and they're
a threat to the constitutional
00:04:31.53\00:04:34.60
separation of church and state
especially with their alliance
00:04:34.64\00:04:38.01
with
conservative Catholics, okay.
00:04:38.04\00:04:40.28
And then you've
got the Left, okay,
00:04:40.31\00:04:43.78
who emphasizes this
civil rights run amok,
00:04:43.81\00:04:47.72
which tends to now
threaten religious freedom
00:04:47.75\00:04:51.02
from another direction.
00:04:51.05\00:04:52.39
That was
certainly competing rights.
00:04:52.42\00:04:55.16
Yes.
00:04:55.19\00:04:56.52
So you've got,
you've got a problem here
00:04:56.56\00:04:59.39
and I think Ellen White
saw this way in advance.
00:04:59.43\00:05:03.03
We cannot with safety
vote for political parties
00:05:03.06\00:05:05.60
for we did not we
who we're voting for.
00:05:05.63\00:05:07.77
Now, she is saying,
"Don't be party loyal.
00:05:07.80\00:05:11.34
Vote independently."
00:05:11.37\00:05:12.81
She is not saying, "Don't vote."
00:05:12.84\00:05:14.51
A lot of people say,
00:05:14.54\00:05:15.88
Ellen White says
we shouldn't vote.
00:05:15.91\00:05:17.25
No, that's not what she says.
00:05:17.28\00:05:18.61
She is trying to help us
00:05:18.65\00:05:19.98
actually have a coherent
conversation about voting
00:05:20.02\00:05:23.99
when she is writing this.
00:05:24.02\00:05:25.35
Oh, I think it's,
to me it's clear that
00:05:25.39\00:05:28.22
we have
obligations and expectations
00:05:28.26\00:05:31.79
in our community and
what voting is one of them.
00:05:31.83\00:05:35.03
We should do it.
00:05:35.06\00:05:37.27
Now, I'll bring up
the topic that off camera
00:05:37.30\00:05:39.87
you and I were discussing.
00:05:39.90\00:05:41.37
It's one thing to vote,
should we be forced to vote.
00:05:41.40\00:05:45.71
Yeah, tell us about...
00:05:45.74\00:05:47.38
your Australian experience?
00:05:47.41\00:05:49.04
Well, the Australian
system is modeled in many ways
00:05:49.08\00:05:52.51
on the United
States Constitution.
00:05:52.55\00:05:54.58
I mean not by chance by, by...
00:05:54.62\00:05:57.09
But not on the issue of voting.
00:05:57.12\00:05:58.85
No, but it was the
first country in the world
00:05:58.89\00:06:01.39
to have secret
voting which of course,
00:06:01.42\00:06:03.96
the United States has now.
00:06:03.99\00:06:05.59
That when someone's
looking over your shoulder
00:06:05.63\00:06:08.43
and knowing how you vote,
00:06:08.46\00:06:09.80
you could be
harassed in your community
00:06:09.83\00:06:11.17
or by government or whatever,
so that's a very good thing,
00:06:11.20\00:06:13.44
and the other thing in Australia
00:06:13.47\00:06:15.80
there's 100
percent voter participation
00:06:15.84\00:06:17.97
because you are expected to vote
00:06:18.01\00:06:20.38
and there's a fine if you don't.
00:06:20.41\00:06:22.04
You don't get sent to
prison, but there's a fine
00:06:22.08\00:06:25.11
and so
essentially everybody votes.
00:06:25.15\00:06:27.88
To their credit in Australia,
they have a religious exemption
00:06:27.92\00:06:30.75
and when I was
there, I never voted.
00:06:30.79\00:06:34.26
And not purely
because of principle
00:06:34.29\00:06:38.19
but all I had to do when I
got the fine notice was write
00:06:38.23\00:06:41.06
I have religious
objections and it was gone.
00:06:41.10\00:06:43.70
So you're forced in Australia
to exercise your citizenship.
00:06:43.73\00:06:48.10
In another words,
essentially if you don't vote,
00:06:48.14\00:06:51.31
you get taxed, you
get penalized for the tax.
00:06:51.34\00:06:53.84
It sounds like...
00:06:53.88\00:06:55.21
How much is that tax?
00:06:55.24\00:06:56.58
You're debating
the, the medical...
00:06:56.61\00:06:58.35
How much is that tax?
00:06:58.38\00:07:00.35
$30, you said?
00:07:00.38\00:07:01.72
Yeah, I think it was...
00:07:01.75\00:07:03.08
Well, it was many years
ago 25 I think it was the fine.
00:07:03.12\00:07:04.45
So what it would be now?
00:07:04.49\00:07:05.95
I don't know but it's not,
00:07:05.99\00:07:07.69
it's not a make or break amount.
00:07:07.72\00:07:10.16
But their
intention is to encourage
00:07:10.19\00:07:12.29
full citizen participation.
00:07:12.33\00:07:15.30
Now it's a little
dangerous in the United States
00:07:15.33\00:07:18.03
even though you
might not agree on
00:07:18.07\00:07:19.77
how you get there when
you can have as our members
00:07:19.80\00:07:23.14
only about a third of
the potential electorate
00:07:23.17\00:07:27.04
they vote in the
presidential election, isn't it?
00:07:27.08\00:07:29.71
Yes, and I think the
Australian way is a democratic
00:07:29.74\00:07:33.11
social experiment run amok,
I think in America I personally
00:07:33.15\00:07:37.95
I'm opposed to the
Australian experiment.
00:07:37.99\00:07:40.66
I wouldn't want that, I mean,
00:07:40.69\00:07:42.06
to me to stay home and
not vote is the privilege
00:07:42.09\00:07:45.93
and right of
every American citizen.
00:07:45.96\00:07:49.13
So I mean, I'm off for voting,
don't misunderstand me here.
00:07:49.16\00:07:53.84
I think it's, I think
it's a good way for Christians
00:07:53.87\00:07:57.87
to exercise their
citizenship rights.
00:07:57.91\00:08:00.28
and I think that
and their privileges
00:08:00.31\00:08:03.08
and I think that to not use that
00:08:03.11\00:08:05.91
and to stay home, I
think is unfortunate.
00:08:05.95\00:08:08.98
I wouldn't call it
entirely you're responsible,
00:08:09.02\00:08:11.09
but I think it's, I
think it's unfortunate.
00:08:11.12\00:08:13.69
They should, they should
look at this as an opportunity
00:08:13.72\00:08:16.66
to exercise their right to vote
00:08:16.69\00:08:19.23
who they think is
the best candidate.
00:08:19.26\00:08:21.16
Now, if they don't feel
either candidate is good
00:08:21.20\00:08:24.37
for the country
then staying home is,
00:08:24.40\00:08:26.67
is actually a good thing.
00:08:26.70\00:08:28.77
What a lot of, I
know I haven't voted
00:08:28.80\00:08:31.01
but I know a lot of
people in Australia do...
00:08:31.04\00:08:36.48
if they feel
they want to stay home
00:08:36.51\00:08:38.71
when they vote
they do it wrongly,
00:08:38.75\00:08:43.15
check the wrong
number of box or whatever
00:08:43.18\00:08:44.95
and it's called
voting informally I think.
00:08:44.99\00:08:47.06
In other words it's
not, it's not counted
00:08:47.09\00:08:49.92
because you disqualify yourself.
00:08:49.96\00:08:51.29
You have no idea how many times
I've written in my own name
00:08:51.33\00:08:55.33
when, when I didn't like
either presidential candidate.
00:08:55.36\00:08:59.10
Well, I will know when
you were elected president.
00:08:59.13\00:09:03.20
I doubt if that
would ever happen.
00:09:03.24\00:09:05.64
We've never had a
Hamilton for a president.
00:09:05.67\00:09:08.21
In fact, they even tried
to take Alexander Hamilton off
00:09:08.24\00:09:10.91
the ten dollar bill.
00:09:10.95\00:09:12.31
That is really bad news.
00:09:12.35\00:09:13.95
But you mentioned earlier that
00:09:13.98\00:09:15.35
it's the tradition
of the United States
00:09:15.38\00:09:17.55
withholding the vote,
00:09:17.59\00:09:19.19
I think that came
directly from Cromwell's England
00:09:19.22\00:09:24.09
and the Civil War period,
00:09:24.13\00:09:26.06
because it was
the matter of the king
00:09:26.09\00:09:27.90
wanting to raise funds
00:09:27.93\00:09:29.76
that really determined
the power and parliament
00:09:29.80\00:09:31.70
wanted to withhold
the power of the purse.
00:09:31.73\00:09:33.80
You're right, that is
a Protestant tradition
00:09:33.84\00:09:36.30
that emanates from
that time period in England
00:09:36.34\00:09:39.11
that they brought with them
00:09:39.14\00:09:41.14
as far as the
Puritans were concerned,
00:09:41.18\00:09:43.11
they brought with them.
00:09:43.14\00:09:44.48
And, you know, it's
one way of accomplishing
00:09:44.51\00:09:46.45
a certain control over
what your officials are doing.
00:09:46.48\00:09:51.79
But yeah, I think
you and I are agreed
00:09:51.82\00:09:53.96
and we need to get this
message across to our viewers
00:09:53.99\00:09:58.46
clearly both in
the Adventist context,
00:09:58.49\00:10:01.06
I'm talking in a
larger Christian view,
00:10:01.10\00:10:04.30
it's not, it
shouldn't be forbidden.
00:10:04.33\00:10:06.60
It's not a totally off
the table to participate
00:10:06.63\00:10:09.54
in elections as a citizen.
00:10:09.57\00:10:11.37
It's a right.
00:10:11.41\00:10:12.74
Sometimes even an
obligation in Australia.
00:10:12.77\00:10:16.21
But you have to bring
a moral sense with you,
00:10:16.24\00:10:19.38
or else you could
be empowering evil.
00:10:19.41\00:10:21.42
And Ellen White did
have a lot to say about
00:10:21.45\00:10:24.42
the projection
that you're making
00:10:24.45\00:10:28.12
on behalf of that individual.
00:10:28.16\00:10:29.52
Well, who you vote for,
00:10:29.56\00:10:30.89
who I vote for is
really nobody's business.
00:10:30.93\00:10:33.09
And I think that we need
to understand one other thing,
00:10:33.13\00:10:36.46
it's not...
00:10:36.50\00:10:37.83
I think Ellen White is
really addressing this.
00:10:37.87\00:10:39.50
We should not
evangelize to others
00:10:39.53\00:10:41.84
the way we think
somebody should vote.
00:10:41.87\00:10:44.37
We should not
tell them how to vote.
00:10:44.41\00:10:46.11
We should not debate with them,
00:10:46.14\00:10:48.94
as to who they should vote for.
00:10:48.98\00:10:50.91
I mean we can
emphasize religious freedom
00:10:50.95\00:10:53.68
if a candidate has a particular
00:10:53.72\00:10:56.02
strong record on
religious freedom.
00:10:56.05\00:10:58.85
You don't consider that,
but it's nobody's business,
00:10:58.89\00:11:02.09
not my business your business
to tell anybody how to vote.
00:11:02.12\00:11:05.09
And neither should it
be a matter of dissension
00:11:05.13\00:11:09.36
within the local church setting.
00:11:09.40\00:11:12.10
Especially, our churches,
00:11:12.13\00:11:13.47
the Seventh-day
Adventist Church,
00:11:13.50\00:11:14.84
it's not up to each individual
member sitting in a pew to say,
00:11:14.87\00:11:19.51
well, you should vote for
so and so and if you don't,
00:11:19.54\00:11:21.64
you're not a good
Seventh-day Adventist Christian
00:11:21.68\00:11:23.14
or you're not a
Christian, that is wrong.
00:11:23.18\00:11:25.55
No, and I think by and
large as a general statement,
00:11:25.58\00:11:30.05
the church assembly should be
out of the political business.
00:11:30.09\00:11:35.19
And neither should pastors
be preaching from the pulpit
00:11:35.22\00:11:38.39
as who should be voted for
00:11:38.43\00:11:41.46
and who the membership vote for,
00:11:41.50\00:11:42.83
I think that's totally wrong.
00:11:42.86\00:11:44.20
And, you know,
that's been the sad tragedy
00:11:44.23\00:11:46.17
of the United States in
the last three, four decades
00:11:46.20\00:11:50.21
as public morality dropped
00:11:50.24\00:11:52.41
and some of the actions
of the country degenerated
00:11:52.44\00:11:55.18
and the religious right came
up with voter registration list
00:11:55.21\00:11:58.28
and all the rest in it,
00:11:58.31\00:11:59.65
and it turned into
raw political source
00:11:59.68\00:12:01.28
for as seeking of
raw political power.
00:12:01.32\00:12:04.92
The Seventh-day Adventist Church
00:12:04.95\00:12:06.29
does not believe in
endorsing any candidates
00:12:06.32\00:12:08.46
or Seventh-day Adventist Church
00:12:08.49\00:12:09.82
does not believe in its policies
00:12:09.86\00:12:12.16
that makes very clear that,
00:12:12.19\00:12:14.90
that candidate
should not be endorsed
00:12:14.93\00:12:16.87
from the pulpit or
should they even preach
00:12:16.90\00:12:20.34
about political
candidates from the pulpit.
00:12:20.37\00:12:24.44
And I want to emphasize that
00:12:24.47\00:12:26.57
the Seventh-day
Church encourages each person
00:12:26.61\00:12:29.14
however to vote their conscience
00:12:29.18\00:12:31.11
if they are going to vote.
00:12:31.15\00:12:32.48
It's really up to each
individual person to decide
00:12:32.51\00:12:36.12
who or how they want to vote
00:12:36.15\00:12:38.52
and that includes even staying
home with the protest vote.
00:12:38.55\00:12:42.76
However, in this program these
two segments that we've had,
00:12:42.79\00:12:45.99
part one and part two,
to vote or not to vote.
00:12:46.03\00:12:49.13
We should remember
that it is not the duty
00:12:49.16\00:12:54.04
or prerogative for anyone
to tell anybody how to vote.
00:12:54.07\00:12:58.11
Any discussion
of political action
00:12:58.14\00:13:00.88
and the necessity of
voting by Christians.
00:13:00.91\00:13:04.55
Any discussion like that among
00:13:04.58\00:13:06.41
Seventh-day Adventists
has to take into account
00:13:06.45\00:13:09.52
that pioneer founder
Ellen White was very much
00:13:09.55\00:13:14.79
to the fore in the whole
anti-alcohol, anti-tobacco
00:13:14.82\00:13:18.79
what became known as
the prohibition movement.
00:13:18.83\00:13:22.23
In fact on one
occasion she said, that
00:13:22.26\00:13:24.73
"This was such
an important issue
00:13:24.77\00:13:27.70
that if necessary
Seventh-day Adventist
00:13:27.74\00:13:29.54
should vote on Sabbath.
00:13:29.57\00:13:32.64
Much of our religious
accommodation involves around
00:13:32.67\00:13:35.41
asking for an
exemption from work
00:13:35.44\00:13:37.28
and other
secular worldly things,
00:13:37.31\00:13:40.05
because of the Sabbath issue.
00:13:40.08\00:13:41.92
But if there is an
overwhelming moral imperative
00:13:41.95\00:13:45.42
or if there is
a cow in the well,
00:13:45.45\00:13:47.66
you are to do it.
00:13:47.69\00:13:50.46
It's a very big
point to what degree
00:13:50.49\00:13:54.16
Christians should be
involved in the voting process,
00:13:54.20\00:13:57.33
but for Seventh-day Adventists
00:13:57.37\00:13:58.83
it was settled
early on moral issues
00:13:58.87\00:14:02.07
demand and involvement.
00:14:02.10\00:14:05.11
Citizenship perhaps require
00:14:05.14\00:14:08.38
or pulls us toward involvement
00:14:08.41\00:14:11.18
but moral issues
absolutely demand
00:14:11.21\00:14:14.42
and make it imperative
that we have our voice heard
00:14:14.45\00:14:18.55
as Christians in the community.
00:14:18.59\00:14:21.52
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:14:21.56\00:14:24.19