Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Greg Hamilton
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000323A
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00:31 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:33 This is a program bringing you news, 00:35 views and discussion and a lot of insights 00:38 into religious liberty events around the world 00:41 and in particular in the United States. 00:43 My name is Lincoln Steed, editor of Liberty Magazine 00:47 and my guest on this program is Gregory Greg Hamilton, 00:52 President of the Northwest Religious Liberty Association. 00:55 And you're not a first time guest on Liberty Insider. 00:58 No, many times. 00:59 Thank you for having me again. 01:02 I know you can talk about almost anything on this topic 01:06 without any preparation but there is something 01:08 that I know you just bubbling over about, 01:10 all of us watching the television 01:11 in the last few months 01:13 in the beginning of the US presidential race, 01:18 but watching each party chose their candidate, 01:20 it's been, it's been historic, not good but historic. 01:25 But it raises the question in religious liberty circles 01:30 or religious liberty principles, 01:32 how involved do you think a Christian, 01:34 a Seventh-day Adventist, 01:36 somebody that believes in religious liberty. 01:38 How involved should we be? 01:40 Are we free to become political creatures 01:44 and become part of the presses? 01:47 What's at play here? 01:49 Well, you know, as a Seventh-day Adventist 01:50 Christian growing up in devout Seventh-day Adventist home, 01:56 in Bakersfield, California. 01:58 We would drive up as kids, 01:59 my dad and mom would get in the car 02:01 and they drive up to Fresno, California to see my, 02:05 his folks and my grandparents. 02:07 And invariably after church and after lunch, 02:10 grandpa and my dad and my brother 02:12 and I would go to the living room 02:15 and grandpa would kind of hold forth. 02:17 And he was on politics, 02:20 and it was either theology or politics 02:23 or social issues of the day. 02:26 And he was an FDR or Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 02:30 New Deal Democrat. 02:31 And my dad who was the only child mind you, 02:35 he decided he was Barry Goldwater Republican. 02:38 Okay, so... 02:40 I remember that era, that was very contentious. 02:43 The Goldwater era in my view was the closest 02:46 to what we're going through right now. 02:48 He was portrait as the end of freedom, 02:50 you know, it's going to be the big mushroom cloud 02:52 if Goldwater was elected and in retrospect 02:55 when I read about him, probably not so bad. 02:58 Not so bad in retrospect but still 03:01 at least he was a senator, at least he had common sense... 03:06 And a track record. 03:07 And so I wouldn't exactly compare that to today's brace. 03:09 No, but the panic in the Fuhrer at the time was comparable. 03:13 But I listened to their conversations, 03:16 it was interesting because they just, 03:19 they were quite direct 03:21 and could be quite emotional at times 03:23 and I will never forget, I mean this invariably happened 03:26 almost every time we visited up there, 03:29 that wasn't just over Goldwater, 03:30 that was all elections after that. 03:34 My mom and grandma would come into the room 03:36 where they were washing dishes in the kitchen and they tell, 03:39 "You guys quite arguing and fighting." 03:41 And Grandpa would look up and Dad would look up 03:44 and say almost harmoniously. 03:46 We are having a wonderful discussion, 03:48 Go back and wash dishes 03:50 which was kind of sexist for the day, 03:52 which I'm glad more and more women are actually 03:55 involved in the political scene, 03:56 it's a fantastic thing. 03:58 And one of the things I learned from that 04:02 and specifically from my grandpa later on, 04:05 he shared with me Mark 12, the Christ being, 04:11 His encounter with the Pharisees and Herodians 04:13 who said teacher, we know you are man of integrity, 04:16 you weren't swayed by men, 04:17 you know they were really trying to like good lobbyers 04:20 trying to puff him up. 04:22 And he says, because they say 04:24 because you pay no attention to who they are, 04:26 but you teach the way of God in accordance with a truth. 04:29 Then they ask, is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not? 04:32 Should we pay or shouldn't we? 04:33 And Jesus knowing their hypocrisy said, 04:35 "Why are you trying to trap me? 04:38 Bring me a denarius and let me look at it. 04:39 They brought the coin and he asked him, 04:41 whose portrait is this and whose inscription. 04:43 And of course they said Caesar's, 04:45 and then Jesus said to them, 04:47 give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's. 04:49 Now lot of people say, 04:50 well how can you get anything out of that 04:52 in regard to voting. 04:54 You can't, but would you can get this one thing, 04:57 and this is what my grandfather taught me, 04:59 and that is, you know, 05:01 we have a responsibility for good citizenship 05:04 as Christians on this earth. 05:06 And that's what Jesus is saying here. 05:08 Give in to Caesar what is Caesar's, 05:10 which is our citizenship duty. 05:13 All right, so to speak. 05:14 And then given to God what is God's. 05:16 So we have a role to play. 05:18 So evangelical Christians who assume that we should be 05:21 isolationist and go somewhere is, is not true. 05:27 Second of all, the whole idea 05:30 of not voting is actually an American tradition. 05:34 If you go back to the beginning of elections, 05:40 Protestants would stay home many times 05:43 and not vote as a means of protest. 05:45 And so even Mark Twain has commented about this 05:48 and the idea of staying home 05:50 and protesting by not voting is actually 05:54 a long held American tradition. 06:00 Maybe not a good tradition 06:01 because I'm sure you can argue from history 06:04 some rather abhorrent things have happened 06:07 over the years because only a minority of people voted 06:11 when the people that might have thought otherwise stayed home. 06:13 Well, that was my grandfather's point is that 06:17 we really do have a role as citizens to play 06:19 and we really should exercise that role. 06:22 And I think 06:25 one of the most wonderful opportunities we have, 06:28 privilege that we have, a right if you will, 06:31 is the right to vote. 06:32 And I think we have to exercise it. 06:34 And you know they're better... 06:35 well, not better, that was some good text 06:37 and I've used that mostly to share 06:40 that we should stay out of politics. 06:42 And it is interesting, 06:44 the Pharisees and the Herodians, 06:46 they were a political faction. 06:47 Right, so Jesus did think that they were trying to trick him, 06:52 but remember Jesus Himself said, 06:56 didn't he say Herod that fox. 06:58 So he tilted against 07:02 not a political faction in the modern sense 07:04 but with the political force. 07:06 So he wasn't silent on that. 07:08 But there is no evidence Jesus was occupied 07:10 but to emphasize your point, 07:13 I think if Jesus was giving an example of abstaining 07:20 from the real hurly-burly of the world. 07:22 He'd been like, perhaps John the Baptist type to know, 07:26 but the Assyrians, you know we think that 07:29 John the Baptist part of these things, 07:31 community aside somewhere, 07:32 just studying and contemplating. 07:34 Like the forerunners of the monks. 07:36 Right and we know that Jesus didn't do that 07:39 with His disciples, they traveled around 07:41 and they were part of everything. 07:43 Right. 07:44 And one of the things I've noticed is wherever I go, 07:48 I run into so many Seventh-day Adventists well meaning, 07:50 wonderful Seventh-day Adventist Christians, 07:53 wonderful folks who say especially, you know, 07:57 the little old grannies and the grandfathers, 08:00 well we shouldn't vote 08:01 because Ellen White says we shouldn't vote. 08:03 And I say, well, show me that. 08:04 Invariably they'll come up with this reference, 08:07 from Fundamentals of Christian Education, 08:10 page 475 by Ellen G. White. 08:13 We should spell out a little for our viewers, 08:16 and show regular viewers are familiar 08:18 with this but Ellen G. White was a... 08:23 really a pioneer of Adventism in the most practical form, 08:28 she and her husband James White 08:30 and the few others Loughborough and so on. 08:32 They were the guiding lights in the formation of 08:35 what is now a church. 08:37 But as well as that she was the women that had visions 08:39 who was seen as the visionary prophet, 08:42 so she had a dual role, 08:44 but she was looked up to her a lot, 08:46 not always accepted automatically by the Adventist, 08:48 so they tested the spirits big time, 08:52 but what she said on this carries a lot of weight 08:55 with Seventh-day Adventists. 08:56 Well, and, you know, 08:58 I look at Ellen White's example, 09:00 and if you look at her life I mean, 09:04 she encouraged people to get out and vote on issues, 09:07 we know that. 09:08 She says by voice and pen, we should be against alcohol, 09:12 we should be for prohibition. 09:14 Well, that was her big, big issue. 09:15 It was her big issue, but there was also dress reform, 09:19 there was the biggest issue of our country's history 09:24 the anti-slavery movement. 09:26 The Abolition movement 09:28 which she was a huge advocate for. 09:30 In fact, even had visions saying 09:32 that the angels were on the side of the north 09:34 but the north was culpable and just as guilty 09:37 for holding on to slavery as long as they did 09:39 as the south and so on, 09:41 and that's in the first volume 09:43 of the Testimonies for the Church. 09:45 Fascinating reading. 09:46 Although, I should throw in something 09:48 which I don't think undercuts your view 09:49 on political involvement. 09:51 But she directly said that God's punishment 09:54 rested on the south for their embrace of slavery. 09:56 Yes. 09:57 But she was the leading light among the forming church 10:01 and saying that we shouldn't be involved in military service. 10:04 Yes. 10:05 Even though, it was just war if you'd like. 10:08 This was still not enough 10:09 for Seventh-day Adventist Christians 10:11 to justify their involvement in something 10:13 that overall was not a good process. 10:15 But in reference to voting, this is what's fascinating 10:18 because people will say, well, 10:21 but she didn't believe in voting. 10:22 Well, let me give you an example, 10:23 you can find this in the book of Temperance. 10:26 She had an incident one day where the mayor of Battle Creek 10:30 had a newspaper interview and it was published, 10:33 and Ellen White read it one Sunday morning 10:35 and the mayor said "Well, I'm in easy shoe 10:37 to get related here in Battle Creek 10:39 because Adventists won't come out to vote. 10:42 So it's easy for me. 10:43 Now, this really got Ellen White upset, all right, 10:46 because here this guy was a known womanizer, 10:50 a drunk, a gambler, and as corrupt as all get out. 10:53 All right? 10:54 I mean, she got appointments 10:56 from church to church throughout that town, 10:57 Adventists and non, you know, not sermons 11:02 but just announcement period time, 11:03 hey, you know, get out and vote. 11:06 You know, she didn't say who to vote for 11:08 but get out and vote, this is important 11:11 and I think that that showed that her activism 11:15 took another step, it went to another level. 11:19 And when I look at fundamentals 11:21 of Christian Education, page 475 11:23 it's easy to misinterpret this to say 11:26 that she says that we shouldn't vote. 11:28 It's so easy to misinterpret it. 11:30 Let me read several portions of it 11:33 and we'll dwell on certain aspects of it as we go. 11:37 She says and this is in reference counsel 11:40 to educators in our schools 11:42 especially with our impression with children 11:44 where teachers would be debating about politics 11:47 and who to elect and advocating for certain people, 11:51 which she says we should not do. 11:54 And we as church believe very much in not doing that 11:57 and we should not ever endorse any candidate as a church body. 12:01 Well, she spoke against partisan or party politics. 12:05 We were not to be involved in party political factions. 12:09 Yeah, we will get to that, 12:10 but the context behind this was this background 12:15 regarding school teachers. 12:17 The Lord would have his people bury political questions. 12:21 Now obviously she was involved in the... 12:27 She was a national spokesperson 12:28 for the Women's Christian Temperance Union 12:32 and which later unfortunately was very much involved 12:37 with the National Reform Association 12:38 and Lord's Day Alliance to push for Sunday laws. 12:41 She found herself walking a very fine line, 12:45 a tight rope so to speak 12:46 because she was very much against the Sunday laws 12:48 even commissioned AT Jones, Alonzo T. 12:50 Jones, famous evidence pioneer to on Sunday law issues 12:55 to go and testify before Senator Blair 13:00 in the Senate Labor and Education 13:03 Committee in 1887 and 1888. 13:07 So, you know, she was clearly astute 13:13 and nuanced in her approach to understanding. 13:15 Absolutely, absolutely. 13:16 We will continue this after a short break. 13:18 Stay with us. 13:20 Come back for this interesting discussion of 13:23 whether Christians should vote 13:25 and what are the real issues at hand. |
Revised 2016-07-28