Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Melissa Reid
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000317A
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00:27 Welcome to the Liberty insider.
00:29 This is a program that brings you 00:30 up-to-date news, views, discussion, 00:32 and information on religious liberty. 00:35 My name is Lincoln Steed, Editor of Liberty Magazine. 00:39 And my guest on the program is Melissa Reed, 00:41 Associate Director for the Seventh-day Adventist Church 00:44 in North America for the Public Affairs 00:46 and Religious Liberty Department. 00:48 Very distinct distinction 00:50 that I often have to explain to people. 00:52 Religious liberty is one aspect 00:53 but another is presenting the church 00:55 in a positive way to public officials. 00:57 Right, right, sort of our diplomatic side. 00:59 Yeah, yeah, there's one way of putting it, 01:00 yeah, the diplomats. 01:02 We're not always diplomatic. 01:05 But let's talk about North America, 01:07 the United States, 01:09 I came originally from Australia, 01:11 I still look at it with sort of fascination. 01:14 And I know that much of the world does because... 01:17 Well, every country has its unique history. 01:20 The U.S. is not such ancient vintage, 01:22 and it was established at the time of 01:25 religious and social casting off of the old norms. 01:30 It was sort of an attempted idealism. 01:34 Yes. 01:35 And the constitution 01:36 which is not as followed as it should be at level. 01:38 But it's a wonderful document of high principle secularism. 01:43 But yet, in the First Amendment protecting religious liberty. 01:46 Respect for, absolutely. 01:47 The president gave a State 01:50 of the Nation address the other day. 01:52 And he was accused of being 01:54 too idealistic in ignoring reality. 01:56 What do you think? Where are we? 01:58 What's the state of the nation on religious liberty? 02:00 Right. 02:01 Well, I really appreciate being an American. 02:05 I love the freedoms that we have here, 02:07 and I love the Constitution as far as, 02:10 I think of it as a living document. 02:13 And I like, I like the idealism. 02:17 I like the checks and balances 02:19 that are afforded within the Constitution, 02:22 you know, as far as our government. 02:24 I, you know recognize there was a reaction 02:27 to sort of the situation and, you know, 02:31 sort of centralized power 02:33 that they were coming from that, you know, 02:35 the founders were coming from but I love that. 02:39 You know, within our governing literature it's, 02:43 it's recognized a freedom of expression, 02:47 a freedom of religion. 02:49 You know, we talk about sort of the two different clauses, 02:52 we talk about the establishment cost. 02:54 You know, the government will not establish literature. 02:56 It's a two halves of half of one amendment. 02:58 Yes, yes. 03:00 So, you know, we're coming from somewhere 03:02 where there was an official church, 03:03 you know, as part of the state. 03:05 And then also the free exercise there, you know of. 03:09 You gave the loaded statement in for the point of discussion, 03:11 so we could bring out some truth. 03:13 Okay. 03:14 You made a loaded statement about living constitution. 03:16 Yes. 03:18 That's a polarizing statement 03:20 when you talk about the Supreme Court. 03:21 It is. 03:22 There are a few of the justices that hold just that view 03:26 and have been accused of sort of 03:28 making it up as they go along 03:30 which probably is a bit true, 03:32 but what they're trying on doing, 03:33 and I think what you mean by it is to apply 03:36 the overarching principles embodied in the Constitution 03:39 with the present reality. 03:41 Right. Right. 03:42 That can mean moving in directions 03:44 that clearly the people living 03:46 at the time of the signing 03:47 couldn't have even gotten their head around, 03:48 they never imagined. 03:50 Absolutely, and that's exactly what I mean by it. 03:51 As far as, you know, you look at the amendments 03:52 that have taken place over the years. 03:54 As a woman, I appreciate the right to vote. 03:56 And I'm glad that that was an amendment that was added. 04:01 I'm trying to think of a good comeback. 04:04 I may not always appreciate the candidates 04:06 that are offered to me, but I appreciate their right. 04:08 And I agree with you. 04:10 And, you know, I've studied the Constitution 04:12 and I think it's an admirable document 04:13 but it's certainly not an airtight, 04:18 you know, finished product. 04:19 It was the product of the thinking of the times 04:22 and some of its glaring inconsistencies 04:24 where the women were not to vote. 04:26 And of course, slaves were treated as worse, 04:30 they were not allowed to vote, they were treated as chattel. 04:33 And the Constitution itself, if you really read it carefully 04:36 has a very corporate sort of stance 04:41 because early on they had quite a discussion 04:43 whether or not the voting franchise 04:45 would even be extended to non landowners. 04:48 Right. That was a property system. 04:50 Yes. 04:51 But that said, the overarching principles of the enlightenment 04:54 and of even some religious thinkers on, 04:58 on conscience issues are incorporated. 05:01 Yeah. 05:02 And, of course, where we goes the amendments, 05:04 but they were not in the original document, 05:07 but they were included as a condition of the states, 05:10 various states' acceptance of the document. 05:13 Right. 05:14 And really our Constitution 05:15 and our protection of religious freedom 05:18 has been emulated by other countries many times over. 05:21 Yeah, sure, Australia, very consciously. 05:23 When they got their independence, 05:26 1901 was when Australia had federation. 05:31 I mean they pretty much just 05:33 did a high school trick and copied it across. 05:35 Yes, yes, the cut and paste on the computer. 05:38 Yeah, that was before the computers, 05:40 that's a computer era, you know, 1980s to 2000. 05:46 But, you know, as I, as I said, you know, 05:48 while I do believe, you know, that you can't anticipate, 05:52 you know, times and changes in society 05:55 and things like that. 05:57 And again, you know, 05:59 the Constitution is not divine read. 06:01 It's not the Bible, it's not holy scripture. 06:03 And I've said that many times, yeah. 06:04 Right, and so, you know, 06:05 I appreciate that there have been 06:07 amendments along the way. 06:08 But I do really feel like, 06:10 they got it right as far as religious freedom. 06:12 You know, like certainly with our magazine, we see, 06:16 you know, that we standout both 06:18 for that free exercise of religion 06:20 but also that separation of church and state 06:22 that there is no establishment of religion. 06:24 Yeah. 06:27 You know, I like the whole history 06:28 not just from 1776 on. 06:32 But there were, there were battles being fought 06:34 in England itself over religious freedom. 06:38 And I think it's just a quirk 06:40 of the politicians in power at the time, 06:44 not even to dismiss the English king that they mishandled, 06:47 didn't think separated as they would have eventually. 06:49 But you can easily see 06:51 a parallel view of the thinking people at the time. 06:54 And remember the French Revolution followed shortly 06:57 after the American Revolution. 06:59 And people saw pernicious role 07:02 that religion had played in frustrating France 07:05 so much that they rebelled 07:06 and kicked out not just the king 07:08 but there was an anticlerical reaction. 07:10 And so America, United States 07:12 was ahead of the curve I think in, 07:14 in a positive way in incorporating 07:16 this new secular thinking. 07:19 And because there were 07:20 so many people of faith in the colonies, 07:23 they wanted to protect faith 07:25 but not let it have the high hand 07:26 that they had in the old world. 07:28 So, I know it's a pretty good model. 07:30 Right. But where is it doing now? 07:31 We're talking theoretical now. Yeah, yeah. 07:33 Well, where is it doing now it's interesting, yeah. 07:37 You know right now, as we're talking we're in the middle. 07:40 As it seems like we have been for years, 07:42 we're in the middle of a presidential cycle. 07:45 Well, the things have changed 07:46 since I first came as a teenager to the US. 07:49 The whole process used to be very, 07:51 just a few months away from the election. 07:52 Now, it starts when someone's elected, 07:55 they start campaigning and or their party starts 07:58 doing things with the mind of the next election. 08:00 Yes, yes. 08:01 And, and you know, 08:03 religious liberty or religious freedom 08:04 have been on the lips 08:06 and on the minds of individuals on our, you know, 08:08 news television programs for a couple of years now. 08:13 It almost seems like with the presidential election 08:15 that there is as the Constitution says, 08:19 there should not be a religious test for office. 08:21 You know, it seems based on the party that nomination 08:25 that you're trying to get, you need to check that stamp 08:27 that you are the right religion. 08:30 You believe in the right way, you know, 08:34 and it can be troubling. 08:36 Well, I think President Obama has done quite well, 08:41 and I take him at his word that he is a Christian. 08:46 But he was elected under the shadow of suggestions 08:50 that he was anything but... 08:53 I like to be honest 08:54 and I might have to undercut my own argument. 08:56 Thomas Jefferson was selected when the accusation was made 08:59 that he was a non-Christian. 09:02 And there were some evidence on that with Jefferson. 09:05 But the point I want to make religion-- 09:08 We seem to have adhere 09:10 to the no religious test for public office. 09:12 But many people have remarked and I think it's very true, 09:15 that if someone openly said, they were an atheist. 09:17 They would be under un-electable 09:19 in the United States. 09:21 Or probably if, they say 09:23 they are a Muslim in its current dynamic. 09:26 Currently yes. 09:28 Whether, that was always true, I don't know. 09:30 But there's a social expectation, 09:33 the person will have 09:34 an acceptable religious viewpoint even Mitt Romney, 09:37 he's little on the fringes, 09:39 I can't say that disqualified him, 09:41 but it caused him some trouble. 09:43 Right. 09:44 But I'm quite sure from what I've seen 09:47 and from also opinions that I've read that 09:49 that an openly atheist person would not be allowed. 09:53 I might personally be uncomfortable with that, 09:55 but it shouldn't be a Constitutional problem. 09:57 No, and certainly, I mean I think that 10:00 when you require something. 10:02 You know, we talk a lot about, you know, how, you know, 10:06 the examples were given by God in Christ 10:08 and how, you know, 10:11 we're allowed freedom of choice and things like that. 10:14 And I think when you have these human requirements, 10:17 you have a lot of in sense their beliefs. 10:21 Do you know what I mean like, you're sort of forcing people, 10:24 and I'm not saying, you know, 10:26 people are in their spiritual journey, 10:28 they're in different places at different times. 10:30 But I think you're requiring someone 10:33 to profess to something that may not actually be genuine or, 10:36 you know, at the same sort of level. 10:38 And, you know, I don't know, I don't think it's appropriate, 10:41 I certainly appreciate. 10:44 You know, I appreciate someone who is a dedicated Christian 10:48 because I know that, you know, 10:49 their morals are going to be this way, 10:52 in this way, you know, and they're motivated. 10:53 You know, and I think a lot of times, we talk about this, 10:57 like can you even separate as a religious person 11:00 and a politician. 11:01 You know, well, I'm not going 11:03 to let my religion affect the way 11:04 that I run the country or, or you know serve, 11:06 serve the plurality of individuals. 11:09 I think that's kind of a false requirement as well. 11:11 You can't separate a person's moral compass 11:12 from their entire life behavior. 11:15 Yeah. 11:16 But there shouldn't be a religious agenda, 11:19 or a particular faith agenda. 11:22 And, you know, he's old now and thankfully still with us. 11:26 But Jimmy Carter, I think exemplify that very well. 11:29 I can remember myself murmuring about his election 11:32 because he was such a, an active Southern Baptist. 11:36 But in office, I can't say that, 11:38 I can't really think back and think of anything 11:40 that he apparently did that was 11:43 directly a consequence of his faith identity. 11:45 But since his presidency, he's lived a wonderful, 11:50 admirable public life. 11:52 Exemplary, humanitarian really, I mean he, 11:55 he has walked his faith really. 11:56 Yeah, and the historians are not inclined 11:59 to give him a very high place, 12:00 but I don't think he could be criticized as, 12:03 as misusing his faith in office at all. 12:07 So, I'm comfortable with that sort of a thing. 12:09 And I personally, you know 12:11 wouldn't endorse anybody of any faith or no faith. 12:16 But if all of their views 12:18 and even a secularist if they had, 12:20 if a secularist was publicly stating 12:22 that I'm against religion, 12:24 I wouldn't elect such a person because, 12:26 they might tilt against the First Amendment or... 12:28 Right. Or things like that. 12:30 So, do you think, do you see secularism as sort of the real? 12:34 No. 12:37 You knew where I was going. Yeah. 12:39 Let's, let's take a break and come back 12:41 and continue this interesting discussion 12:43 on a provocative point. |
Revised 2016-04-04