Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Melissa Reid
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000316B
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00:05 Welcome back to the discussion.
00:07 We were solving the world's problem, 00:09 particularly as it relates to religion. 00:12 And goodness knows the world as, you know, 00:15 I'm not God in space 00:17 but from space this must look like... 00:19 A mess? 00:20 A mess, and you know, 00:22 and there's prayers, and crosses, 00:25 and Quranic exaltations all of the religious garble 00:29 coming up must be not mystifying 00:33 but attention getting for the God in heaven. 00:37 And how do we solve it because, you know, 00:39 religion is needed. 00:40 Faith is needed, because I'm giving my answer, 00:43 I make a distinction between religion and spirituality. 00:47 But you know, we got too much religion and it's violent. 00:51 Not always, but the violent elements 00:52 seems to be coming to the fore. 00:54 Yeah, well, I mean, I think you, 00:56 I think you answered it within the question 00:58 as far as you know, focusing on our individual faith in God, 01:02 in our individual relationships with God 01:03 and rather than a religion or a doct, you know, 01:07 sort of doctrine and allegiance 01:11 to a human made sort of organization. 01:15 Particularly, I mean we all think 01:17 that our faith and our belief system 01:18 is the correct one. 01:20 But you know, so many of these faith systems, you know, 01:23 they seem inconsistent with, you know, 01:25 a God of love in some of the practices that we see. 01:29 And you know whether that's incorrect interpretations, 01:32 or you know, that it's, you know, 01:34 a power hungry individual who has sort of, you know, 01:37 created these or whatever but 01:40 it's just you know some of 01:42 the activities and beliefs, you know, 01:44 that inspire them is just so troubling. 01:49 Let me take another tech. 01:51 I think part of what's not causing the problem 01:54 but exacerbating the problem 01:56 is dishonesty in religious dialogue. 02:01 I know Christians, and Christianity is not in a-- 02:06 I mean it's not a violent religion inherently, 02:08 but in the Middle Ages, under the medieval church, 02:11 it had very violent tendencies. 02:14 Christianity at the moment is not. 02:17 But I think to protect itself, it doesn't, 02:20 it's sort of backing off. 02:23 And thus it's not aggressive about any faith proclamation. 02:27 Whereas Islam at the moment is in the, 02:30 not necessarily the ascendancy, 02:32 but it's an ascendant aggressive stage. 02:36 But Christians and others 02:38 are not willing to call it for what it is. 02:41 Even the president continuing to say, 02:43 "Islam is a religion of peace." 02:44 It doesn't even mean peace, it means submission. 02:48 And, Islam has with a vengeance what even Christianity has, 02:53 the idea that everybody should be a Muslim. 02:55 Their goal is total worldwide conversion. 02:58 And until that's accomplished, persuasion is good, 03:02 violence might be necessary. 03:05 Well, you know, not all, 03:06 by any means of adherence 03:08 of any religion would be inclined to be violent. 03:11 But if it's inherent in you, in your faith, talk about it. 03:14 Don't dodge it. 03:16 You know, even as people are being bombed 03:18 and destroyed around the world and we say, 03:20 "This is not the religion." 03:22 It's sort of like the argument with the-- Now, 03:24 I'll get into trouble with our viewers the, 03:26 the gun argument. 03:28 You know, guns don't kill people. 03:30 People kill people. 03:31 Right. Yes. 03:33 Well, you can say, "No, Islam never hurt anybody. 03:34 But this person, well I say, they're Islamic, 03:36 they did this." 03:38 Not really Islam. 03:39 After a while, it's the elephant in the room, 03:42 of course, it's Islam. 03:43 Right. 03:45 And I've already said in other programs, 03:47 I'm committed to protecting Islam 03:50 or heaven's gate for that matter to exist. 03:55 When they harm other people, that's a question, 03:56 but people can believe what they want. 03:58 That's religious freedom. Right. 04:00 But I don't think it furthers religious freedom 04:02 to deny aspects of a given faith. 04:05 We need to really discuss them openly. 04:08 And I agree with you too with what you were saying as far as. 04:12 We need to be upfront about our own belief system. 04:16 And maybe even proud of our own belief system, 04:19 and rather than sort of white washing it, so that it's, 04:22 you know, we all have this universal faith, 04:24 or belief in this higher power and they're not... 04:26 Right and that's where we are going, 04:28 I believe that there's going to be an attempt with globalism 04:31 to morph globalism with a safe religious center. 04:37 It could be a coalition of religious beliefs 04:39 that have muted their distinctive aspects, 04:43 sort of a defense compact. 04:45 Yeah. 04:46 And they will easily turn on the others 04:48 that are not in there. 04:49 Right. 04:50 No, you know, I think that, 04:53 that our faith has been inspired, 04:55 you know, we have inspired works, 04:57 we have the Bible, we have so many different things that, 04:59 that show us very, you know, purposeful, 05:02 distinctive ways to live our life and, 05:05 and I think that we should be proud of that, 05:07 and we should stand, you know, behind them. 05:10 And, yes. Not, not. 05:13 I mean religion shouldn't be radically different 05:16 from all human interchange. 05:17 I mean you don't, you don't come up to someone 05:21 and tell all the truths 05:22 about your observation of them right upfront. 05:25 You get to know them, 05:27 and then if you want to persuade them of something, 05:29 you suggest it carefully. 05:32 You know, with the dynamic, religion is the same. 05:33 Of course, religion can have a clear agenda, 05:36 but you don't hit people between the eyes with it. 05:39 But in this larger dialogue, we need to be upfront about 05:42 what we really believe, what our agenda is even if, 05:46 you know, that the other group may not accept it. 05:49 But they should accept that you hold that view. 05:51 Right. 05:53 That's sort of what's missing. 05:54 Yes. And, and... 05:56 And that you're allowed to hold that view. 05:58 Right. 05:59 You know, when we talked about before, you know, 06:02 immigration issues, and you know, we've, 06:04 we've heard individuals running for president talk 06:07 about excluding individuals from immigrating 06:11 because of their particular, you know, belief system. 06:14 I mean, I'd like to think that if that nameless individual 06:19 were elected in the real world, 06:20 it probably would translate into something close 06:24 to what we already have, where there's certain watch, 06:26 watch list countries, and anybody from that area 06:29 might have deeper scrutiny. 06:31 I mean the U.S., I've been through the system, 06:33 the U.S. doesn't just, has never had a total open door. 06:36 Right. Never has. 06:38 And there's quite, isn't there quite 06:40 a comprehensive process now for individuals who immigrate. 06:43 There's always a checking process. 06:46 Paranoia is driving, if not his statement, 06:49 the reaction to it. 06:51 And it doesn't bode well for religion generally, 06:53 if you can just sort of 06:55 box someone and categorize them. 06:56 @You know, I might have strong views on Islam, 06:58 but by no means do I think that every Muslim will act 07:02 on those, sort of worst tendencies of their faith, 07:06 and I hope they have the same for me. 07:07 Right, right. 07:09 And we're certainly not suggesting 07:10 that anyone's civil liberties should be removed 07:12 because of their, you know, the way that they believe 07:15 they're religious, you know, how they are. 07:16 No, but the way they act, yes. Absolutely. 07:18 And, and I don't even have a challenge. 07:20 If... 07:25 Let's just call the country Oceana. 07:28 If I am a citizen of Oceana and they make it illegal 07:33 to, to witness to my faith to my neighbor, 07:38 I don't have a problem with how I act with that. 07:41 I will disobey the law and take the penalty. 07:44 There's a penalty for it. 07:45 Right, I think I like that point, go ahead. 07:48 And, and there's many people living in the United States, 07:50 where they make an assumption that automatically 07:53 the law is going to guarantee 07:55 everything they do with their faith 07:56 just because it's guarantee religious liberty. 07:59 Well, that's a fortuitous situation. 08:01 But you don't act in the way you do as a person of faith 08:04 because the law allows or disallows it. 08:07 You do because you're motivated by your conscience. 08:09 I like that point a lot. 08:10 But you should understand, you cross the civil law, 08:12 then you're going to pay a penalty. 08:13 Right, I agree with that. 08:15 You know, we've had conversations on here before 08:17 about, you know, with the discrimination 08:19 in the workplace in the United States, 08:22 and talked about, you know, individuals are standing up 08:25 for their conscience. 08:26 They know the situation in that workplace, 08:28 they know that they will likely, you know, 08:30 they hope that there will be one outcome 08:32 that they'll be accommodated. 08:33 But they know that there is the possibility 08:35 that they will lose their job for God. 08:36 Even though as we're currently standing, 08:39 the law is on their side that, you know, that's just the way. 08:41 Now, this is a little bit of the obvious 08:42 of what I was explaining. 08:43 This is where the law supports you. 08:45 Yes. But there's a social penalty. 08:47 There's a social penalty. 08:48 And this is their irony in America 08:50 that needs to be spoken aloud. 08:51 There's a lot of lip service to the First Amendment. 08:55 And then its application in the workplace 08:58 through Title VII of the civil rights legislation. 09:01 But there is a huge amount of prejudice 09:03 by employers and fellow employees 09:06 that gets in the way all the time. 09:07 It's not prejudice against religious liberty. 09:10 It's prejudice against your particular 09:12 form of religious expression. 09:13 Right, right. 09:15 There is often well, why can't you just do this 09:16 or why can't you do that or this person is into that and... 09:19 But to the broader question as far as, you know, 09:22 I absolutely agree with you that people should recognize 09:25 there are consequences to, you know, 09:28 being a person of faith and we certainly, you know, 09:32 don't think that there should be unfair consequences, 09:35 but if you are in a situation where, you know, 09:38 X is not allowable but your conscience, you know, 09:42 requires you to do it then, you know... 09:45 Follow your conscience. Follow your conscience. 09:47 I have seen too many cases of people 09:49 that have had a problem and they've given in. 09:54 And then, you know, it's between them and God 09:56 in the end. 09:57 But I've hit this table, well, you know, 09:59 they wouldn't let me, or they wouldn't allow me. 10:01 That's not really an excuse, 10:04 and we're happy to use the Lord 10:06 to help someone who follows their conviction. 10:09 But you have to follow your conviction. 10:11 What does Shakespeare say, 10:12 "To thine own self, self be true." 10:14 Right. 10:16 Well, and the thing is to us 10:17 as we have seen over and over again. 10:19 Following your conviction will lead you 10:21 to a closer relationship with God. 10:23 It's going to be a witness to individuals around you, 10:27 whether it's your friends, or your family, 10:28 or your colleagues, or your countrymen. 10:31 You know, it's, it's, it's not an easy thing to do. 10:34 You know, we're saying it sort of just like, 10:36 well, of course, this is the way you should do. 10:37 There will be consequences and they will be, you know, 10:41 likely they will be unpleasant whether it's you know, 10:43 losing your employment, or your citizenship, 10:45 or something you know. 10:47 Well, sometimes they are pleasant too. 10:48 Of course. 10:50 But you don't go to-- 10:51 The point is, Christianity I understand, 10:53 but it seems to me any faith, you don't go into it 10:55 because it's going to be pleasant or unpleasant, 10:57 you go to it under conviction. 10:59 You don't go for the prizes. 11:00 And let the chips fall where they may. 11:03 And then you praise God, Allah, whoever dear to you, 11:08 you are inclined to, but you praise them 11:10 that it turns out so well. 11:12 Right, and we know that, you know, 11:14 that there is ultimately a wonderful, you know, 11:18 price sort of waiting for us at the end of time 11:21 as far as, you know, a life in heaven with, 11:23 with Christ and His believers in. 11:25 And so, we know that to be true but, you know, 11:28 just as we're going along here, 11:30 and looking at the world around us 11:33 really, it's just such a dire situation, and unfortunately, 11:37 it's because of a lot of times 11:39 the situations that are occurring 11:41 are religiously motivated. 11:42 Whether it's conflict between the own religion, 11:44 or, you know, with other religions. 11:47 And so, I'm just really so grateful 11:49 when we take the time and the opportunity 11:52 to look to Christ as our ultimate, 11:57 you know, situation of how to behave and... 12:03 How to, you know what to emulate 12:05 as far as how we deal with our relationships 12:07 with other people. 12:09 Just the other day in the car, I was playing a selection 12:11 from Handel's wonderful musical, the Messiah. 12:15 And I listened to the one of the deeper voices 12:19 singing in "Why do the nations so furiously rage together?" 12:24 The nations are raging at the moment, 12:26 and one of the reasons for that rage, 12:28 one of the expressions of that rage 12:30 is religious intolerance, religious difference. 12:34 And indeed, a murderous religious aggression at times. 12:39 We need to be aware of this and fight it on every level. 12:44 Not with swords loud clashing, 12:46 but with deeds of love and mercy, 12:48 with an exemplification of what true religion is, 12:53 whether it's Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, 12:57 they are very disparate in the way that they approach 13:00 different gods. 13:02 But the way that they practice their faith 13:04 should be dignified by a common humanity. 13:08 For Liberty insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2016-04-04