Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Melissa Reid
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000316A
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00:27 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:29 This is a program bringing you 00:30 discussion, analysis, news, views 00:33 and general information on religious liberty. 00:36 My name is Lincoln Steed, Editor of Liberty Magazine 00:39 and my guest on the program is Melissa Reid. 00:43 We worked together on several things 00:45 but the title I want to give you 00:46 is associate director of the North American Public Affairs 00:51 and Religious Liberty Department 00:52 of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. 00:54 Well, thank you so much for having me here today. 00:56 I appreciate it. 00:57 Yeah, it's good to have you 00:59 and let's get into the big discussion. 01:00 We won't talk about North America 01:01 let's talk about the world. 01:03 Oh, wow. 01:04 The whole world is in affirmant on religious entitlement 01:09 if you like. 01:12 The Bible actually speaks about it. 01:13 You know, the weak will say I'm strong and, you know, 01:15 and everybody wants their thing. 01:19 Since 9/11 the war on terrorist, 01:20 so they focused their view on Islam 01:24 and its radical expression 01:25 but it's a bit wider than that, isn't it? 01:27 Have you seen signs around the world of other religions 01:30 in conflict with either themselves or another group? 01:32 Right. 01:34 Well, unfortunately there is not really an exception. 01:36 Is there? No. 01:38 I mean, anyway we look it's just, you know, 01:43 religiously motivated violence in one way or the other. 01:46 Whether it's, you know, within a faith group 01:49 or whether it's one faith group against another unfortunately 01:53 and it's so countered to, you know, 01:55 to our God of love and our God of peace 01:58 that it's just incredible that the-- that's the, 01:59 you know, the reality we live in. 02:01 I tried to analyze 02:04 and it's possible the modernizing forces, 02:09 the modern culture and technology has brought, 02:12 has put stresses on all faiths, it's possible. 02:14 I tend to think that while that's at work, 02:17 what's really happened is as a general disillusion 02:20 and decaying set in with all the ideologies. 02:22 Remember communism collapsed 02:25 just before the year 2000 02:27 was 92 or something around there. 02:31 Even though China continues it's not really communism. 02:34 You know, its communism discredited, capitalism. 02:37 I know it dies hard with, 02:39 perhaps the Republican Party in the US 02:41 but capitalism is not held in higher statement. 02:45 Even the Pope was bold enough to criticize it 02:48 before Congress recently. 02:51 Imperialism certainly out of vogue. 02:55 And so all the isms 02:57 and all of the old structures are gone. 02:59 Even nationalism not a big thing nowadays. 03:02 Globalism is the thing. It is. 03:04 So what I see happening 03:06 is all of these old structures are fading away, 03:09 economies are collapsing 03:10 and what are people throwing back on. 03:12 They have to have some group identity. 03:14 Yes. 03:15 Sometimes it's tribal 03:16 but more often it's a religious identity. 03:19 Absolutely. 03:20 You know, there is this warning I think, 03:23 I agree with you that there is this sort of dissatisfaction 03:26 and, you know, looking around sort of the state of the world 03:29 its kind of understandable that people are dissatisfied. 03:32 You know, there are such terrible things happening, 03:34 injustice is happening but I think, you know, 03:37 rather than they're reacting, you know, in appropriate way 03:42 and certainly they are just 03:43 sort of adding to the situation. 03:46 And so well, it might be understandable that, you know, 03:50 that this is that they are dissatisfied 03:54 or they are unhappy with circumstances 03:57 this is certainly, you know, 03:58 the wrong way to go about making changes. 04:01 Well, I don't know that people always, I mean, 04:03 maybe some of the thinkers and the leaders 04:05 who could be more comfortable 04:07 but the mass of people 04:08 they don't think, they just respond. 04:10 Absolutely. 04:11 And, you know, the US history there was a great conflict 04:16 precipitated by immigration 04:18 when the Irish in particular came. 04:20 Most of them were Roman Catholics. 04:22 A religious element kicked in but what really started 04:27 it was these were people in competition 04:29 for the jobs of prior Americans 04:33 who were already economically stressed 04:35 so they didn't think it through. 04:37 It's just that I'm threatened, my job may go 04:40 and here a guy that, you know, 04:42 that follows the Pope and all the rest who, 04:44 you know, I've got a deep prejudice against. 04:46 So that's the level that kicked in on. 04:49 Even I think with Al-Qaeda. 04:53 It didn't start off just pure religious malice. 04:56 It started that they were the interference of the west 05:00 in Saudi Arabia garrison troops 05:03 that garrison American troop garrisons in Saudi Arabia 05:08 that offended the religious sensibilities 05:10 and it sort of blossomed, and it's not a question 05:13 that the western world is sort of in your face 05:15 for a lot of the Middle East 05:18 and that had been in rejection anyway. 05:21 Religion makes it, religious always, well, 05:25 you've heard me talking about Christopher Hitchens 05:28 who is dead now, not someone I agree with him on any levels 05:31 but his analysis was correct because he says in his book 05:34 religion spoils everything. 05:35 He didn't like religion. 05:37 But religion, since it's such a powerful force 05:40 can spoil everything because it's so powerful. 05:42 Once it gets involved 05:45 and a person's view of the hereafter, 05:48 you know, absolute good and evil kicks in 05:50 you got a serious conflict in play. 05:53 Right. 05:55 I'm looking, I'm thinking about Europe 05:57 and the refugee or immigration crisis 06:00 that we've seen there, you know, 06:01 individuals from Syria fleeing just these terrible situations 06:06 where they are being persecuted. 06:07 Civil war. 06:08 Civil war happening 06:10 and so your heart goes out to those individuals 06:11 as they are trying to escape this. 06:13 You know, they have been experiencing this for years. 06:17 However, you then can understand why there is, 06:21 you know, in Europe where unemployment, 06:23 in various countries, 06:24 their unemployment rates are very high. 06:26 You know, they are very anxious about all the sudden 06:30 all these individuals now coming 06:32 and, you know, like you said 06:34 making the economic situation vulnerable, 06:36 making their own personal economic situation vulnerable. 06:41 So it's understandable I think in a lot of different ways 06:44 but I think we never want to be motivated by fear. 06:47 No. You know, we always-- 06:49 But we need to recognize the historical underpinnings 06:51 as you are explaining about Europe, think about it. 06:54 Genghis Khan and his group got on the move 06:57 and that changed the ancient world. 07:00 The Germanic tribes moved through Europe 07:03 and down into Italy and the Roman Empire fell. 07:07 We know that happened people movements 07:09 that is of the most dramatic 07:11 and confrontational elements of human history. 07:15 There would be genocide, there would be dislocation, 07:18 there would be hatred 07:19 and there was in those incidents before. 07:21 You throw in religious identity then it's much easier 07:25 for people to respond to this underlying threat. 07:28 You can't take million or two people 07:31 from one place to another 07:33 without creating social distress. 07:35 Absolutely. And that's happening now. 07:37 But this religious divider on it. 07:39 Right. 07:40 And it's a very easy 07:41 or a simple divider like, you know, 07:43 even if we move away from Africa and we go, I mean, 07:45 excuse me away from Europe and go to Africa 07:47 we see conflicts there often between 07:49 Christians and Muslim groups and, 07:52 you know, a lot of time, you know, 07:54 it's a very distinct sort of 07:56 easy divider for individual for, 07:58 you know, for groups. 08:00 I'm old enough to remember something 08:01 before I forget them Mau-Mau terror was just Muslim. 08:04 It was the animist religions were against Christianity 08:08 because what it was they saw imperialism 08:12 and I think it was the Belgian Congo 08:13 where they had the trouble. 08:15 Imperialism and other coming in on them 08:18 and so they were reacting, they would have anyway 08:20 but they enlisted their elemental animism 08:25 and it was opposed to Christianity. 08:27 I don't think every conflict between religion 08:30 is doctrinal if you like. 08:32 No. 08:33 I think it's cultural and the religion 08:35 is the identity that kicks in. 08:37 But most people in the massive 08:41 any religion don't adequately understand 08:43 their own religion little than the other one. 08:44 Yes. 08:46 And one way we can minimize this 08:47 is to educate people a little better on religious beliefs. 08:50 Absolutely. 08:51 Well, you are absolutely right. 08:53 I mean, and we can never err in spending more time 08:56 learning about our own faith 08:58 and developing a relationship with our Savior. 09:00 But I think, you are hitting the nail on the head as far as, 09:04 you know, there is a lack of understanding 09:07 and really even just knowledge wise 09:09 but also like relationship wise emotionally, 09:13 you know, and recognizing that this is your brother. 09:15 Whether or not they believe the ways that you do, 09:18 you know, whether or not they are motivated. 09:21 You know, their conscience, it feels the same way you do. 09:24 This is your brother and your sister. 09:25 So you think more brotherhood 09:27 will diminish global religious conflict? 09:30 Well, I mean, that might be a simplistic way to say 09:32 but I think more understanding and more-- 09:34 No, there is no question that if the true spirit of Christ 09:40 and you can project that into other religions 09:42 or the true spirit that usually underlies any religion 09:45 were affective, there wouldn't be the conflict. 09:48 Right. 09:49 But it's probably not gonna happen. 09:51 No. No. 09:53 Because like you said before there's other things 09:54 that are motivating this. 09:56 It's not just religious base, it's the culture, it's the, 09:58 you know, that they are in dire economic situations 10:00 that they are vulnerable as far as, you know, 10:02 their livelihood or their, you know their family. 10:05 And so absolutely there are many forces 10:07 that are at work and, you know, 10:09 looking at our prophetic beliefs also 10:12 I think that we are only going to see things increased. 10:14 Yes, on that level I don't have quite hope. 10:17 I know that it's gonna work out but of my view of prophecy is 10:21 it may be predicted but not necessarily now. 10:24 Exactly. Yes. 10:25 So there always can be a saving moment 10:28 where good can come out. 10:31 Right. 10:32 And we certainly, you know, whether it's, you know, 10:34 next week or, you know, 20 years from now 10:36 we also are counseled not to sit quietly by 10:40 and watch people be persecuted 10:41 or peoples' rights being diminished. 10:43 Now I think a lot of it can be minimized 10:45 by explanation of the situation 10:48 by education about other religions. 10:51 It could be minimized on the part of different countries 10:55 not seeking a confrontation or, you know, 10:58 there's lot of demagogues that's just, 11:00 we can let our own country off the hook so. 11:04 And I'm originally from Australia 11:05 I can let them off the hook 11:07 but we know that there are many politicians 11:09 who knowingly will capitalize an underlying tensions 11:12 to increase the situation. 11:14 Absolutely. 11:15 And citizens themselves can cry foul when that happens. 11:19 International bodies can minimize it. 11:21 And then we have the other, you know, 11:22 we have the other situations with the Arabs Spring 11:24 where we've seen, you know, sort of the dictators removed 11:29 and then that almost open the floodgates, you know, 11:31 freedom actually brought... 11:34 Well, that's one development that I count myself among 11:38 one of the prophets of gloom. 11:40 I knew from day one that was gonna end badly. 11:43 Yeah. 11:44 It seems to have escaped a lot of people 11:46 what some of those desperates were up to. 11:48 They were actually holding the religious conflicted bay 11:52 and it wasn't a liberal generally 11:54 there were some little exceptions 11:56 but generally the Arab Spring was not a liberalizing trend. 11:59 No. 12:00 It was actually a follow through 12:02 from the provocation of Iraq that got people angry and well, 12:07 they were rejecting the status quo 12:08 but their agenda was quite radical. 12:11 Yeah. 12:13 But, you know, we can't solve a lot of this 12:15 but it's worth discussing as I said at the beginning 12:18 and you well know and our readers, our listeners, 12:21 readers of Liberty and listeners of this, 12:25 And viewers of this program know 12:27 the religious dynamic is very strong 12:32 and there's some we need to discuss it. 12:34 We can't, we can't dodge it. 12:41 We got a-- I'm hesitating 12:43 because I can be cynical on all this very easily. 12:45 Sure. 12:47 And maybe we will take a break 12:48 and come back after that 12:49 and I'll pick up this thought, 12:51 where do we go from this present world situation? |
Revised 2016-04-04