Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Paul Anderson
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000309A
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00:22 Welcome to "The Liberty Insider."
00:24 This is the program bringing you news, views, 00:26 up-to-date information and analysis 00:29 on religious liberty events 00:31 in the United States and around the world. 00:33 My name is Lincoln Steed, Editor of Liberty Magazine. 00:37 And my guest on the program is Commander Paul Anderson. 00:43 It's good to be here. Thank you. 00:45 You haven't been on the program before 00:47 and as our crew knows, I'm not good on names, 00:49 and I want to affirm your name, Paul. 00:53 And you are a commander, 00:54 because you've been a chaplain-- 00:56 I was a chaplain. 00:58 In the US Navy. 00:59 Yes, for 20 years, made it to the rank of Commander, 01:02 and recently retired. 01:04 Well, retired from the military, 01:06 but not from chaplaincy. 01:08 Correct. Correct. 01:09 And this is what I want to discuss with you. 01:11 You're presently director of Chaplaincy Ministries 01:15 for the North American division 01:16 of the Seventh-day Adventist church. 01:17 I am. And it's a new assignment 01:19 because here before in the North American division, 01:22 the Adventist Chaplaincy Ministries 01:26 was handling glove with the General Conference. 01:28 So in November, last year, 01:31 NAD voted to join the other divisions 01:36 and have their own ACM Department. 01:37 Well, you've clarified for me because I had that ambiguity, 01:40 I wasn't really sure 01:42 of a difference between the GC and the NAD. 01:44 And the General Conference is our world headquarters 01:49 operation for the Seventh-day Adventist church. 01:50 They're both presently in the same building, 01:53 but your responsibility is for North America. 01:55 Correct. 01:56 Now, a lot of our viewers may not even understand 01:59 how chaplaincy works, 02:01 because in the United States, 02:03 we do have a separation of church and state 02:06 and yet, a chaplain, as I see it, 02:10 and I think it's true, is thoroughly, 02:13 what was the word they use with the report 02:15 is embedded into the military. 02:17 It is. You even hold rank. 02:19 And yet, you're there to present religious viewpoints 02:22 and religious services 02:24 to the enlisted or to all military personnel. 02:29 You know chaplaincy 02:31 has been a part of the American fabric 02:34 since the Revolutionary War. 02:37 Chaplaincy is a concept, is reflected back 3,000 years. 02:42 And most cultures have some sense 02:45 of spiritual leader 02:49 in the cultural dynamics. 02:51 But as it relates to chaplaincy 02:55 in the American fabric during the Revolutionary War, 02:59 George Washington petitioned Congress to establish 03:03 a chaplaincy for the soldiers. 03:06 He felt that having 03:08 a man of God amongst the troops 03:11 would help to perpetuate civility 03:15 and decorum in the conduct of war strangely. 03:19 Yeah, and I don't doubt that he was wrong. 03:22 Again, let's discuss further, you know, 03:23 the separation of church and state 03:25 derives from the constitution and in particular 03:28 in amendment of the Constitution. 03:31 And all of that wasn't passed 03:33 and confirm by the states until quite some time 03:37 after George Washington's military experience. 03:41 So do you know anything about the debate? 03:44 Did that come up for further debate 03:45 as the Constitution was ratified? 03:48 Actually it has but 03:51 in the First Amendment right to 03:55 to worship juxtaposed against not establishing 04:02 a state religion was supported 04:06 and the Congress has always had a chaplain 04:09 who started the sessions of Congress 04:12 with prayer from the very beginning. 04:14 Oh, yeah, the house 04:16 and the Senate both have chaplain. 04:17 And it's very interesting. 04:19 You and I know much take it with the fact 04:21 that one of your-- He was, 04:24 he is a commander of yours, 04:26 Barry Black is the chaplain to the US Senate, 04:29 the Seventh-day Adventist chaplain. 04:31 And a Roman Catholic chaplain that's in the house. 04:34 And I should know his name off hand. 04:36 I have met him but don't remember 04:38 his name at this point. 04:41 But it's amazing, Barry Black was a trailblazer 04:46 in the Navy Chaplain Corps. 04:48 He was the youngest to become a chief of chaplains. 04:52 He was also the first African-American 04:54 and the first Seventh-day Adventist. 04:56 When he retired from the Navy, 04:58 providentially the chaplain for the Senate was retiring 05:03 and he was invited to candidate for the job and selected. 05:08 It's an amazing development. 05:11 And you know, I see God's hand in it, 05:14 that he is able to witness powerfully in that context. 05:18 And I'm very comfortable with the chaplaincy program. 05:21 But I think it need some explanation 05:23 because anybody that studies American history 05:27 and how the Constitution came about, 05:29 knows that James Madison 05:31 did campaign against, 05:35 you know, the Bible being used, Bible in schools. 05:37 He campaigned against the teachers being subsidized, 05:41 back then it was religious education. 05:43 And I know that he also said some things about chaplaincy. 05:47 But, yes, the present position of the chaplains 05:51 in the Senate and the Congress is such settled law, 05:53 settled president that it's not going to be changed. 05:56 But it does sort of ruffle 05:59 this clean divide between church and state. 06:01 I think that one of the things 06:03 that supports the chaplaincy or in the dialogue, 06:08 and the Supreme Court has ratified it 06:10 as well that holidays, the concept of holidays 06:14 and paid holidays also supports 06:17 the concept of paying chaplains from public funds. 06:21 In that when Congress and the federal government 06:25 closes for any of the list of national holidays, 06:30 the employees are still paid. 06:35 And so, that is one of the supporting pillars 06:39 of chaplaincy. 06:40 But also the fact that since 1775, 06:44 when the army in the Navy Chaplain Corps 06:46 were established, 06:47 it has been supported in Congress 06:50 and in the Supreme Court since then. 06:54 Now explain the dynamic, because I-- 06:58 Maybe I don't understand it fully, 06:59 but I know most people don't. 07:01 Now you would go into military chaplaincy, 07:05 you happen to be 07:06 a Seventh-day Adventist minister, 07:08 there's other ministers of other denominations, 07:11 they don't remain an employee of their church, do they? 07:14 That's correct. 07:16 When you are commissioned into one of the Chaplain Corps, 07:19 you become a commissioned officer 07:21 in whichever of the services you are in, 07:24 the Air Force, the Army or the Navy. 07:26 The Navy supplies chaplains to the Marine Corps. 07:29 And what role would your church play 07:32 in you becoming a chaplain? 07:34 Well, the church endorses pastors to become chaplains. 07:39 Chaplains are pastors first. 07:42 And I like to say that all chaplains are pastors, 07:45 not all pastors are called to be chaplains. 07:48 Our training process is virtually the same. 07:52 The M.Div is the gold standard for interest, 07:55 the Master of Divinity Degree is the gold standard 07:58 for entrance into Seventh-day Adventist ministry. 08:01 And all military chaplains have to have 08:05 at the very least a Master of Divinity degree. 08:07 Okay, so that's an endorsement by the church 08:11 that you belong to as part of being accepted 08:14 into the military. 08:15 And then you're a... 08:18 You know, you are truly part of the service then. 08:19 Right. 08:21 So the Adventist Chaplaincy Ministries department 08:23 is the endorsing agent for military chaplains 08:26 as well as chaplains in other disciplines, 08:30 healthcare, corrections, community service, 08:33 disaster response, those areas. 08:35 And what mechanisms are in place that would... 08:40 I got to mind my words carefully on this one. 08:41 What mechanisms are in place that the chaplains in general 08:45 are not sort of political officers 08:49 of the government? 08:52 The chaplains are... 08:54 Or commissars to use there. Makeshift word. 08:57 They are specifically chartered to be 09:02 the subject matter experts on ethics morality 09:06 and the overall 09:08 welfare of the troops. 09:13 We are ethical, moral ethical adviser, 09:16 special advisers to the commander. 09:19 But we're also the subject matter expert for faith 09:24 and faith development among the troops. 09:28 So we provide for those worship services 09:32 and sacramental support for those with whom, 09:36 for whom we can. 09:37 For those whom we can't, 09:40 as a Seventh-day Adventists obviously, 09:41 I couldn't conduct the mass. 09:43 So we would facilitate the acquisition of a priest 09:47 through contract or assignment to do that. 09:52 For those for whom we can't provide or facilitate, 09:54 we care about them all. 09:56 We go where they go, we eat what they eat, 09:58 we sleep where they sleep and we are fully... 10:01 Yes, you're just not, you're not just assigned 10:04 to care for the spiritual wellbeing 10:05 of Seventh-day Adventist, 10:07 as a Seventh-day Adventist chaplain 10:08 or same for any other. 10:11 To some degree you're a chaplain for all, 10:13 and then you work 10:15 with the specific needs of different faiths. 10:16 Correct. 10:18 If you're in a Marine Corps, Army battalion, 10:20 all 700 or 800 of those soldiers or sailors, 10:24 marines are yours. 10:27 If you're on a ship, 360 on a smaller ship 10:30 or 5,000 plus on an aircraft carrier, 10:34 each of those souls is yours and that community is yours. 10:38 It's not just a church with four walls, 10:40 it's really a parish in the community. 10:42 Tell me if you've got any idea, 10:44 how many chaplains that were hire 10:45 in US military overall? 10:46 I think there are about 3,000, 10:50 may be as many as 35. 10:54 The Army of course has the largest core, 10:57 the Air Force, the smallest, 10:58 and I think the Navy currently is about at 850 chaplains. 11:02 And would there always be a chaplain 11:03 on every base or in every operation? 11:07 Not every operation. 11:10 The ideal is for every 300 people 11:12 there should be one chaplain. 11:15 But there are ships at sea that don't have chaplains 11:18 but there is a circuit rider chaplain 11:21 who would go from one ship to another to another. 11:24 I think it's a good concept. 11:26 But it needs to be, as I am sure it is, 11:30 it needs to set up correctly or it could be, 11:33 you know, you mentioned before the US, 11:36 there were chaplains in most armies 11:37 but they usually operated alongside the drummers. 11:40 This was to urge you on and God's with you, 11:44 and, you know, riders on our side, 11:46 because that happens very easily in war. 11:48 I think people need a moral, 11:53 I was going to say an excuse, but sort of, you know, 11:55 a moral cause to espouse them. 11:57 And the prevailing religion of the army 11:59 can most easily do that. 12:01 Yeah, there is some component of that, 12:04 a wise chaplain will understand his or her role to be 12:09 a first responder to help soldiers recover 12:15 from the fog of war. 12:16 Or if they have been shocked 12:19 or traumatized by the detritus of war, 12:23 to help them find their spiritual balance 12:26 and emotional self. 12:28 Yeah, and you're getting up 12:31 what I think it's really devolved to, 12:32 it's more focused on the soldier rather than on the, 12:36 the service is an auxiliary of doing 12:40 what the service needs to do. 12:42 I mean, that's the business of the government 12:43 and generals and so on. 12:45 But human beings, 12:48 which every soldier is one, of course, 12:50 they need that reminder of the ministration 12:55 of heavenly grace. 12:56 Yeah, during the Revolutionary War, 12:58 the chaplains actually carried rifles 13:00 and ammunition they were, 13:04 for lack of a better word, trigger pullers. 13:07 What was that statement, 13:08 something about praying to God and keeping your powder dry? 13:11 One of the old Navy constructs. 13:15 But now chaplains are noncombatants. 13:19 So they're not... 13:20 Yeah, that's true and that's worth saying. 13:22 We'll be back after a short break 13:23 to continue this interesting discussion. 13:26 I am sure many of our viewers really haven't heard the, 13:29 a true explanation of the role of military chaplains. 13:32 Stay with us. We'll be right back. |
Revised 2016-01-11