Welcome to "The
Liberty Insider."
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This is the program
bringing you news, views,
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up-to-date
information and analysis
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on religious liberty events
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in the United States
and around the world.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
Editor of Liberty Magazine.
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And my guest on the program
is Commander Paul Anderson.
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It's good to be here. Thank you.
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You haven't been
on the program before
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and as our crew
knows, I'm not good on names,
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and I want to
affirm your name, Paul.
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And you are a commander,
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because you've been a chaplain--
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I was a chaplain.
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In the US Navy.
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Yes, for 20 years, made
it to the rank of Commander,
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and recently retired.
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Well, retired from the military,
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but not from chaplaincy.
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Correct. Correct.
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And this is what I
want to discuss with you.
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You're presently director
of Chaplaincy Ministries
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for the North American division
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of the
Seventh-day Adventist church.
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I am. And it's a new assignment
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because here before in
the North American division,
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the Adventist
Chaplaincy Ministries
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was handling glove
with the General Conference.
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So in November, last year,
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NAD voted to join
the other divisions
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and have their
own ACM Department.
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Well, you've clarified for
me because I had that ambiguity,
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I wasn't really sure
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of a difference
between the GC and the NAD.
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And the General Conference
is our world headquarters
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operation for the
Seventh-day Adventist church.
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They're both
presently in the same building,
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but your responsibility
is for North America.
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Correct.
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Now, a lot of our
viewers may not even understand
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how chaplaincy works,
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because in the United States,
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we do have a
separation of church and state
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and yet, a
chaplain, as I see it,
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and I think it's
true, is thoroughly,
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what was the word
they use with the report
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is embedded into the military.
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It is. You even hold rank.
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And yet, you're there to
present religious viewpoints
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and religious services
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to the enlisted or to
all military personnel.
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You know chaplaincy
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has been a part of
the American fabric
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since the Revolutionary War.
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Chaplaincy is a concept,
is reflected back 3,000 years.
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And most
cultures have some sense
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of spiritual leader
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in the cultural dynamics.
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But as it relates to chaplaincy
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in the American fabric
during the Revolutionary War,
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George Washington
petitioned Congress to establish
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a chaplaincy for the soldiers.
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He felt that having
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a man of God amongst the troops
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would help to
perpetuate civility
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and decorum in the
conduct of war strangely.
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Yeah, and I don't
doubt that he was wrong.
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Again, let's
discuss further, you know,
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the separation
of church and state
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derives from the
constitution and in particular
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in amendment of
the Constitution.
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And all of that wasn't passed
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and confirm by the
states until quite some time
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after George Washington's
military experience.
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So do you know
anything about the debate?
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Did that come up
for further debate
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as the
Constitution was ratified?
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Actually it has but
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in the First Amendment right to
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to worship juxtaposed
against not establishing
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a state religion was supported
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and the Congress has
always had a chaplain
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who started the
sessions of Congress
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with prayer from
the very beginning.
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Oh, yeah, the house
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and the Senate
both have chaplain.
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And it's very interesting.
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You and I know much
take it with the fact
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that one of your-- He was,
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he is a commander of yours,
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Barry Black is the
chaplain to the US Senate,
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the Seventh-day
Adventist chaplain.
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And a Roman Catholic
chaplain that's in the house.
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And I should know
his name off hand.
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I have met him
but don't remember
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his name at this point.
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But it's amazing,
Barry Black was a trailblazer
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in the Navy Chaplain Corps.
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He was the youngest to
become a chief of chaplains.
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He was also the
first African-American
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and the first
Seventh-day Adventist.
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When he retired from the Navy,
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providentially the chaplain
for the Senate was retiring
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and he was invited to candidate
for the job and selected.
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It's an amazing development.
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And you know, I
see God's hand in it,
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that he is able to witness
powerfully in that context.
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And I'm very comfortable
with the chaplaincy program.
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But I think it
need some explanation
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because anybody that
studies American history
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and how the
Constitution came about,
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knows that James Madison
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did campaign against,
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you know, the Bible
being used, Bible in schools.
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He campaigned against the
teachers being subsidized,
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back then it was
religious education.
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And I know that he also said
some things about chaplaincy.
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But, yes, the present
position of the chaplains
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in the Senate and the
Congress is such settled law,
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settled president that
it's not going to be changed.
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But it does sort of ruffle
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this clean divide
between church and state.
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I think that one of the things
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that supports the
chaplaincy or in the dialogue,
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and the Supreme
Court has ratified it
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as well that holidays,
the concept of holidays
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and paid holidays also supports
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the concept of paying
chaplains from public funds.
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In that when Congress
and the federal government
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closes for any of the
list of national holidays,
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the employees are still paid.
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And so, that is one
of the supporting pillars
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of chaplaincy.
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But also the
fact that since 1775,
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when the army in
the Navy Chaplain Corps
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were established,
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it has been
supported in Congress
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and in the
Supreme Court since then.
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Now explain the
dynamic, because I--
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Maybe I don't
understand it fully,
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but I know most people don't.
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Now you would go
into military chaplaincy,
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you happen to be
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a Seventh-day
Adventist minister,
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there's other ministers
of other denominations,
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they don't remain an employee
of their church, do they?
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That's correct.
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When you are commissioned
into one of the Chaplain Corps,
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you become a
commissioned officer
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in whichever of the
services you are in,
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the Air Force,
the Army or the Navy.
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The Navy supplies
chaplains to the Marine Corps.
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And what role
would your church play
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in you becoming a chaplain?
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Well, the church endorses
pastors to become chaplains.
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Chaplains are pastors first.
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And I like to say that
all chaplains are pastors,
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not all pastors are
called to be chaplains.
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Our training process
is virtually the same.
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The M.Div is the gold
standard for interest,
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the Master of Divinity
Degree is the gold standard
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for entrance into
Seventh-day Adventist ministry.
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And all military
chaplains have to have
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at the very least a
Master of Divinity degree.
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Okay, so that's an
endorsement by the church
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that you belong to as
part of being accepted
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into the military.
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And then you're a...
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You know, you are truly
part of the service then.
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Right.
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So the Adventist
Chaplaincy Ministries department
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is the endorsing
agent for military chaplains
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as well as chaplains
in other disciplines,
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healthcare,
corrections, community service,
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disaster response, those areas.
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And what mechanisms
are in place that would...
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I got to mind my
words carefully on this one.
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What mechanisms are in place
that the chaplains in general
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are not sort of
political officers
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of the government?
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The chaplains are...
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Or commissars to use
there. Makeshift word.
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They are
specifically chartered to be
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the subject matter
experts on ethics morality
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and the overall
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welfare of the troops.
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We are ethical,
moral ethical adviser,
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special advisers
to the commander.
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But we're also the
subject matter expert for faith
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and faith
development among the troops.
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So we provide for
those worship services
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and sacramental
support for those with whom,
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for whom we can.
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For those whom we can't,
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as a Seventh-day
Adventists obviously,
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I couldn't conduct the mass.
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So we would facilitate
the acquisition of a priest
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through contract or
assignment to do that.
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For those for whom we
can't provide or facilitate,
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we care about them all.
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We go where they go,
we eat what they eat,
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we sleep where they
sleep and we are fully...
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Yes, you're just not,
you're not just assigned
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to care for the
spiritual wellbeing
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of Seventh-day Adventist,
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as a Seventh-day
Adventist chaplain
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or same for any other.
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To some degree
you're a chaplain for all,
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and then you work
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with the specific
needs of different faiths.
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Correct.
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If you're in a Marine
Corps, Army battalion,
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all 700 or 800 of
those soldiers or sailors,
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marines are yours.
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If you're on a ship,
360 on a smaller ship
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or 5,000 plus on
an aircraft carrier,
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each of those souls is yours
and that community is yours.
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It's not just a
church with four walls,
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it's really a
parish in the community.
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Tell me if you've got any idea,
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how many
chaplains that were hire
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in US military overall?
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I think there are about 3,000,
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may be as many as 35.
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The Army of course
has the largest core,
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the Air Force, the smallest,
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and I think the Navy currently
is about at 850 chaplains.
00:10:58.92\00:11:02.09
And would there
always be a chaplain
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on every base or
in every operation?
00:11:03.86\00:11:07.43
Not every operation.
00:11:07.46\00:11:10.13
The ideal is
for every 300 people
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there should be one chaplain.
00:11:12.87\00:11:15.10
But there are ships at
sea that don't have chaplains
00:11:15.14\00:11:18.14
but there is a
circuit rider chaplain
00:11:18.17\00:11:21.24
who would go from one
ship to another to another.
00:11:21.28\00:11:24.88
I think it's a good concept.
00:11:24.91\00:11:26.72
But it needs to
be, as I am sure it is,
00:11:26.75\00:11:30.09
it needs to set up
correctly or it could be,
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you know, you
mentioned before the US,
00:11:33.92\00:11:36.29
there were
chaplains in most armies
00:11:36.32\00:11:37.93
but they usually
operated alongside the drummers.
00:11:37.96\00:11:40.90
This was to urge you
on and God's with you,
00:11:40.93\00:11:44.03
and, you know,
riders on our side,
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because that
happens very easily in war.
00:11:46.53\00:11:48.94
I think people need a moral,
00:11:48.97\00:11:53.21
I was going to say an
excuse, but sort of, you know,
00:11:53.24\00:11:55.58
a moral cause to espouse them.
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And the prevailing
religion of the army
00:11:57.21\00:11:59.41
can most easily do that.
00:11:59.45\00:12:01.42
Yeah, there is
some component of that,
00:12:01.45\00:12:04.15
a wise chaplain will
understand his or her role to be
00:12:04.19\00:12:09.92
a first responder to
help soldiers recover
00:12:09.96\00:12:15.10
from the fog of war.
00:12:15.13\00:12:16.80
Or if they have been shocked
00:12:16.83\00:12:19.17
or traumatized by
the detritus of war,
00:12:19.20\00:12:23.37
to help them find
their spiritual balance
00:12:23.41\00:12:26.91
and emotional self.
00:12:26.94\00:12:28.41
Yeah, and you're getting up
00:12:28.44\00:12:30.98
what I think it's
really devolved to,
00:12:31.01\00:12:32.95
it's more focused on the
soldier rather than on the,
00:12:32.98\00:12:36.55
the service is an
auxiliary of doing
00:12:36.58\00:12:40.52
what the service needs to do.
00:12:40.56\00:12:42.09
I mean, that's the
business of the government
00:12:42.12\00:12:43.86
and generals and so on.
00:12:43.89\00:12:45.69
But human beings,
00:12:45.73\00:12:48.10
which every
soldier is one, of course,
00:12:48.13\00:12:50.13
they need that
reminder of the ministration
00:12:50.17\00:12:55.27
of heavenly grace.
00:12:55.30\00:12:56.64
Yeah, during the
Revolutionary War,
00:12:56.67\00:12:58.34
the chaplains
actually carried rifles
00:12:58.37\00:13:00.91
and ammunition they were,
00:13:00.94\00:13:04.55
for lack of a better
word, trigger pullers.
00:13:04.58\00:13:07.15
What was that statement,
00:13:07.18\00:13:08.92
something about praying to
God and keeping your powder dry?
00:13:08.95\00:13:11.62
One of the old Navy constructs.
00:13:11.65\00:13:15.29
But now chaplains
are noncombatants.
00:13:15.32\00:13:19.46
So they're not...
00:13:19.49\00:13:20.83
Yeah, that's true
and that's worth saying.
00:13:20.86\00:13:22.46
We'll be back
after a short break
00:13:22.50\00:13:23.83
to continue this
interesting discussion.
00:13:23.87\00:13:26.20
I am sure many of our viewers
really haven't heard the,
00:13:26.23\00:13:29.80
a true explanation of the
role of military chaplains.
00:13:29.84\00:13:32.81
Stay with us.
We'll be right back.
00:13:32.84\00:13:34.31