Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is the
program that brings you
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news, views, discussion,
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updated information
about religious liberty.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
editor of Liberty magazine.
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And my guest on the
program is Dr. Ganoune Diop.
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Very interesting name, Ganoune,
that reflects you're African
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and I think it hints at
the European connection too.
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You lived in France.
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Now you are at the
world head quarters
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of The
Seventh-day Adventist Church
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in Washington, D.C.
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heading up our
religious liberty public affairs
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and religious liberty work.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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They're connected but
they are not quite the same.
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Are they? No, actually--
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May you could
explain the difference.
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They are
intersections but public affair
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is we need the broader umbrella
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that this is the visible face
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of the church, the relationship.
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And projecting
the church itself,
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not just our
religious liberty message.
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Actually public affairs is
like sharing the reputation,
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the good
reputation of the church,
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Adventist assets to society.
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Adventists are
blessings to society.
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But instead of letting
other people define that
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or interpret on their own
you know, and so forth so on,
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we also have our
voice to share who we are.
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This is about
relationships with governments.
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But relationship
with civil leaders,
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public
officers, just an example,
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every Seventh Adventist church
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had to acquire
license to build somewhere.
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But how do you do that?
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How do you introduce this
Seventh-day Adventist Church
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to a mayor, to
a public official?
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How do you make a case
that you are an asset to society
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rather than a nuisance?
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This is not just
improvised. True, and we know.
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We believe in
experiences showing churches
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are a positive in the community.
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Absolutely.
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This is a very
good role of you Diop.
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But you have to make a case.
And also there are problems.
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I mean, as you
know, we Adventist,
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we celebrate the
Sabbath, the seventh's day.
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In many areas
there will be problems
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because some people did
not recognize that right.
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So we have to be
proactive. Explain ourselves.
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Talk to people,
explain that yes,
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there are Christians
who also are loyal to this,
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to a God through the Sabbath
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and that's not a
judgment against.
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You know that's not a judgment
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because people have
the right to choose.
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Again, the right to believe
whatever they want to believe.
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That's not a judgment
into religious liberty sense.
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In a mission sense, we
have to project our views.
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No question. Yes.
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Maybe that at times
that it could be counted,
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you know, can be put
against some other view
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that we could say as wrong.
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But religious liberty
is not about condemning
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another person's faith, is it?
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Well. No. It can't be.
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It's the right of
everyone to believe everything.
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In fact, I once
said, I remembered
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we were lined up
for a meeting in Hawaii
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with a number of
different church leaders
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and we were talking about this
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and I said, "For me
religious liberty means
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that even I find your
belief puerile, foolish,
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I will defend your right
to believe it do the death."
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Yeah.
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But to be a true
religious liberty activist,
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doesn't have to mean.
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in fact, it shouldn't require
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that I have any particular
affinity for what you hold.
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I believe in your right
as a fellow human being.
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No question and I think
this part of the understanding
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religious liberty for all,
freedom of conscience for all.
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Again that almost, you know,
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what we have
repeated here several times.
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That is because
every human person
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has infinite dignity
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and a right to
believe or not to believe,
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freedom of
thought, of conscience,
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of belief is part of
what it means to be human.
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And definitely but, however,
there is another aspect.
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Religious liberty
means also responsibility.
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It doesn't mean,
"Okay, I have the right,
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you know, I can
do whatever I want."
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That's not the idea.
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This is the reason
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why in the
Seventh-day Adventist tradition,
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it is not just
religious liberty,
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it is also truth.
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And that is truth about
God, truth about human being.
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Because my respect is not just.
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okay, my respect
of any human being
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is not based just
on an enlightenment
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humanistic
principle which is good
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because I mean, you
know, people believe that...
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You are getting at
what I specifically said
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at program there
is constitutional,
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historic and
theological aspects.
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Absolutely, so
theological and social
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and you know,
the-- and spiritual
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because this is one aspect
I did not mention earlier.
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You see, yes,
constitutional and so far,
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but the
spiritual aspect is there
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because God is a God of freedom.
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And I mentioned Jesus
has emphasized freedom.
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I mean, He pressed his disciple,
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"don't you want to go."
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You know, so I mean,
you're free to change religion.
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You know. Yeah.
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But furthermore
though, furthermore,
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Christianity itself according
to Galatians Chapter 5,
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And this is extremely important.
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Galatians 5 begins with
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"Christ has
called you to freedom.
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Christ has set
you free for freedom."
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But it doesn't stay there.
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Well, Paul calls
the gospel itself.
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The gospel of
liberty. Of Liberty.
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It's all about freedom.
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But it continues
in that same Chapter
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in a magnificent way.
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How do we know a free person
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according to Paul's
prospective in Galatians.
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This is the Chapter
where he talks about
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the fruit of the spirit.
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So basically that means then.
And freedom in not license.
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He says, "Do we
do all these things?
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God forbid." Yeah, absolutely.
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So freedom is
to position oneself
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actually to receive the
fruit of the Holy Spirit,
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the nine fruits
and beautifully said.
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Paul talk about
love... All the manifestations.
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Love, so freedom to love,
joy, freedom to live in joy,
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peace, freedom
connected to peace.
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So this is the
most comprehensive.
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And then patience with others.
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You know, not
this arrogant attitude.
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So this is why when
you see a person arrogant
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or you know,
like demeaning others,
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that person is in bondage.
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When you have the
fruit of the Holy Spirit,
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that is true freedom.
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"Love, joy, peace,
patience, kindness, gentleness."
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Now think about the gentleness,
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I mean treating
other people's life.
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"There is no such law."
Absolutely, self control.
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Not self gratification
by any means necessary
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in subjugating other people.
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You see, the
Biblical prospective
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of freedom is much
deeper, is more profound than,
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you know, sometime
many people even intimate
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but there is more
to Biblical freedom.
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So you see through
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the religious
liberty department.
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We're promoting--
in promoting this,
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we're promoting the gospel.
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We are promoting deeper values.
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You see, now this is interesting
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because if you
take, for example,
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the idea of human
dignity and I come back to that
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because Immanuel
Kant, philosopher,
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now this he was
speaking in secular term,
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even though he was
talking about values,
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the foundations for
morals and so forth.
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It is interesting
that he calls human dignity
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an over lapping
principle that could be applied,
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not only in the religious
world but in secular society.
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So there are some intersections
in terms of values,
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when I mentioned the
United Nations earlier.
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It's not because.
In another program.
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Yes, it is not
because you embrace some value
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that means you
embrace the whole institution.
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No, but there are intersections,
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some common values.
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What is good can be shared
by several different entities.
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Now so the same
thing for religious liberty
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and I think that
this is some thing,
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freedom of
conscience, freedom of thought,
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human dignity,
all those good things.
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So when Christians
share an Adventist,
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in particular,
these values, of course,
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they are part of
Gospel, the fruit of the spirit,
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why am I a peace advocate?
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Why do I
subscribe in peace making?
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You know, well
because this is a,
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first of all, God
is a God of peace.
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Do you believe that, in
particular, this church,
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they do, all
Christians but in consistent
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with this view of
liberty and freedom
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and a broader intersecting view,
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do you think that
it is contingent on us
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to speak out against
say, human trafficking,
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against obortion, against
environmental degradation.
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Do you think we
should connect these things?
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Morally they are connected.
We are part of the world.
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Right?
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The well being of the world,
it should be concern of ours.
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No question about that.
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But does it mean, but again,
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it has to be undergirded
by evangelical values.
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Meaning by that, by
advocating this or that,
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I am not gonna
become a murderer of people
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who hold different values.
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This is where we
have to be very careful,
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in how we advocate things.
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I can disagree with a
person who ever that person is,
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without crossing
the boundary to violate
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the physical
integrity of that person.
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This is where I can
disagree, morally speaking,
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with this or that position,
with out looking that person
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or deserving to be eliminated
or something like that.
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You see this is where
again, when I said earlier,
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in another program
that moral values are also,
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interdependent,
integrated into one whole
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and that is God, by the way.
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I agree with you on you know,
this is wonderfully expressed.
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It seems to me
in the United States
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where the Seventh-day
Adventist Church began,
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it's not a, you know,
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it's not the long
and the short of it.
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It's a universal call
but it began in the US,
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is a happy coincidence
that the constitution
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is designed to
uphold religious liberty
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and the construct is
separation of church and state.
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That provides I think,
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an easier model to
define it publically.
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What you are fishing toward
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in these more
general statements,
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I think is
better or one of better,
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but can be also
expressed as no compulsion
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or no aggression
toward another person.
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You need to respect them.
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And it seems to me,
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at the moment in
the United States,
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we've got the
worst of both wills.
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People are against
increasingly separation
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of church and state,
claiming that it's not
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what the first
amendment really is calling for.
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Some people, because that's...
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Yes, there is always exceptions.
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But the body of those
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that are
defending religious liberty,
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they are not
seperationists anymore.
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And they are also actually
creating religious privilege
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which I think
there is a thin line
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between religious privilege
and religious aggression.
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Don't you think?
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You know, when I
demand legally an exception
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from our
religion over all others,
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in an other
context, when I force that
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or you know, when I
emphasize that it could result
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in actual physicality, violence.
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So this is why I
think religious liberty
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goes also with other,
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you know, other values
like the principle of equality.
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Yeah. Okay.
00:12:39.99\00:12:41.32
And the principal
of non discrimination.
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I mean,
again... Yes, absolutely.
00:12:43.66\00:12:46.03
The civil rights
moving in the US,
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I don't think
it was any accident
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that the churches were involved
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because it's the
spiritual principle
00:12:51.20\00:12:52.53
of religious liberty.
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But here, of course,
because we are in America
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and I am careful
in what I am saying.
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Sometime people resist
the principle of equality.
00:12:58.77\00:13:04.21
I when I say the
principle of equality,
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I'm thinking about
a general principle
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of God taking all
human beings as equal.
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And that's a central,
central understanding.
00:13:11.89\00:13:14.49
We need to
interrupt for a moment.
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We will take a quick
break, we'll be right back.
00:13:16.16\00:13:17.96
We'll continue this
discussion. Stay with us.
00:13:17.99\00:13:21.46