Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider,
00:00:04.33\00:00:06.03
with guest, Ganoune Diop.
00:00:06.07\00:00:08.64
We've been talking about Daniel.
00:00:08.67\00:00:10.14
You've been giving a
wonderfully positive outlook
00:00:10.17\00:00:14.78
on a book that covers
a period of desperation
00:00:14.81\00:00:17.78
for the nation of Israel.
00:00:17.81\00:00:19.15
Yeah, but the
good news as you know,
00:00:19.18\00:00:20.75
as you were mentioning earlier
00:00:20.78\00:00:22.38
is that God gives the good news,
00:00:22.42\00:00:25.92
universal and eternal in
the midst of desperation.
00:00:25.95\00:00:30.33
And this is really
the comprehensive gospel.
00:00:30.36\00:00:35.36
The Kingdom, you
know, Jesus says,
00:00:35.40\00:00:38.53
"Seek ye first God's kingdom."
00:00:38.57\00:00:39.90
Of course the
kingdom as Jesus outlined,
00:00:39.93\00:00:41.64
it really had two
phases immediately within you
00:00:41.67\00:00:45.21
and finally a
re-established new world kingdom
00:00:45.24\00:00:51.55
here on the earth that's remade.
00:00:51.58\00:00:53.72
Yeah. An eternal kingdom.
00:00:53.75\00:00:55.15
Yeah, but clearly the
Book of Daniel insists
00:00:55.18\00:00:57.49
on one day there's a
kingdom that will coming
00:00:57.52\00:00:59.45
that will not be
succeeded by any other.
00:00:59.49\00:01:02.02
So that is our hope.
00:01:02.06\00:01:04.19
You see, and this
is why when Jesus came,
00:01:04.23\00:01:06.03
He said, He came
to preach the kingdom.
00:01:06.06\00:01:08.10
Interestingly,
even the Apostle Paul.
00:01:08.13\00:01:11.07
When you look at
the Book of Acts,
00:01:11.10\00:01:12.47
last chapter, 28, at the end
00:01:12.50\00:01:14.77
that he remained
two years in Rome.
00:01:14.80\00:01:19.27
The text say, "Preaching
about the kingdom of God."
00:01:19.31\00:01:21.78
So this was a very important.
00:01:21.81\00:01:23.81
Then second--
00:01:23.85\00:01:25.18
Rome, of course, was the
center of the earthly kingdom,
00:01:25.21\00:01:27.75
the greatest empire in some ways
00:01:27.78\00:01:30.95
that the world has known.
00:01:30.99\00:01:32.32
So this was very bold
then really from God to share
00:01:32.35\00:01:38.16
with His people that I have
a project, I have a purpose.
00:01:38.19\00:01:43.63
I will establish
an everlasting kingdom
00:01:43.67\00:01:45.57
and that will bring you hope.
00:01:45.60\00:01:46.94
Second, there will
be an everlasting King.
00:01:46.97\00:01:50.34
You see, when the Bible say
00:01:50.37\00:01:51.71
that "all knee
will bow before Christ
00:01:51.74\00:01:54.04
and confess that he is Lord,"
00:01:54.08\00:01:56.34
this is what he's
prophesied in Daniel 7.
00:01:56.38\00:01:59.51
And then to know
that God has a sanctuary,
00:01:59.55\00:02:04.29
you know, where a high
priest is for God's people.
00:02:04.32\00:02:07.99
This in is not just about
some theological technicalities.
00:02:08.02\00:02:11.06
No, it is about a person
00:02:11.09\00:02:13.50
who has every
human being at heart.
00:02:13.53\00:02:16.93
It was interesting
in the Old Testament
00:02:16.97\00:02:18.70
to see the priest
had the name of Gods,
00:02:18.73\00:02:21.34
you know, God's people--
00:02:21.37\00:02:22.70
On the
breastplate. On the breastplate.
00:02:22.74\00:02:24.07
Now, so Christ, the priest
is interceding, intervening,
00:02:24.11\00:02:31.01
encouraging, sustaining
those who believe in him.
00:02:31.05\00:02:35.92
So everlasting--
00:02:35.95\00:02:37.29
And Pope repeats that
saying we have a High Priest
00:02:37.32\00:02:38.89
who is interceding for us.
00:02:38.92\00:02:40.26
Absolutely.
00:02:40.29\00:02:41.62
Picking up on
that Old Testament.
00:02:41.66\00:02:42.99
This is so
important, it's vital.
00:02:43.02\00:02:44.36
And by the way, this is
part of the Reformation,
00:02:44.39\00:02:46.76
Christ alone,
precisely. Absolutely.
00:02:46.80\00:02:49.16
You now, so eternal
kingdom, eternal King,
00:02:49.20\00:02:54.24
everlasting priests,
sacrifice once and for all,
00:02:54.27\00:03:00.28
this had the good news,
the cross we're talking about
00:03:00.31\00:03:02.38
and the resurrection, of course.
00:03:02.41\00:03:04.65
You know emphasize in Daniel.
00:03:04.68\00:03:06.21
And then this
wonderful idea of bringing
00:03:06.25\00:03:08.72
everlasting righteousness,
meaning that I am not coming,
00:03:08.75\00:03:13.82
I don't deserve
heaven, nobody does.
00:03:13.86\00:03:17.13
God gives us His
righteousness freely.
00:03:17.16\00:03:20.90
And this is way by the
way, is by grace alone.
00:03:20.93\00:03:23.10
Again, another
reformation principle.
00:03:23.13\00:03:26.70
And then this
wonderful thing to know
00:03:26.74\00:03:29.70
that death doesn't have
the last word in spite of our--
00:03:29.74\00:03:34.11
we lose our
loved ones, you know.
00:03:34.14\00:03:37.28
There's tragedy,
separation, it's not natural.
00:03:37.31\00:03:40.05
But God will put an end to
that by saying, Daniel, sleep,
00:03:40.08\00:03:44.55
you will resurrect.
00:03:44.59\00:03:45.92
Since you talking about death
00:03:45.95\00:03:47.29
and of course,
the state of the dead
00:03:47.32\00:03:49.86
is an important part
of Adventist thinking,
00:03:49.89\00:03:53.06
to see it as the
Bible seems to...
00:03:53.09\00:03:56.10
consistently
portray it as asleep.
00:03:56.13\00:03:59.50
You're right, other than
a few little quirky passages
00:03:59.53\00:04:03.71
like, Jesus and Lazarus and--
00:04:03.74\00:04:08.78
you know, it's a
parable any how, just a figure.
00:04:08.81\00:04:11.41
There's no evidence.
00:04:11.45\00:04:12.78
But it seems to me...
00:04:12.81\00:04:17.19
if you have a false idea
of the state of the dead,
00:04:17.22\00:04:20.96
the faithfulness of the
saints and religious liberty
00:04:20.99\00:04:24.09
put into action
changes it's dynamic.
00:04:24.13\00:04:27.93
And yet, we have
the encouragement,
00:04:27.96\00:04:29.93
the Bible says
that figuratively,
00:04:29.96\00:04:32.37
there's a cry for
justice under the altar of God.
00:04:32.40\00:04:36.24
But those that die in the Lord,
defending their faith in Him
00:04:36.27\00:04:40.88
and their religious liberty,
00:04:40.91\00:04:42.84
they will be
vindicated at the very end.
00:04:42.88\00:04:45.15
But if you just
instantly go with God,
00:04:45.18\00:04:47.28
it's almost like
the diluted Jihadists
00:04:47.32\00:04:50.75
fly into the buildings.
00:04:50.79\00:04:52.59
You know, get you
virgins immediately,
00:04:52.62\00:04:54.59
you know, you get your paradise.
00:04:54.62\00:04:56.39
You got any comment on that?
00:04:56.42\00:04:57.76
Because I--
00:04:57.79\00:04:59.13
it doesn't...
00:04:59.16\00:05:00.96
directly bear on the
concept of religious liberty
00:05:01.00\00:05:03.70
but experientially, I think
this makes a huge difference
00:05:03.73\00:05:06.60
on practicing
the faith before God
00:05:06.63\00:05:09.34
and why you're
remaining faithful.
00:05:09.37\00:05:11.77
Well, this is part of the
hope and the trust in God.
00:05:11.81\00:05:17.81
There are two views, even
within the Christian world
00:05:17.85\00:05:20.52
something of, you know...
00:05:20.55\00:05:24.69
and this tends to comes to
even from the Greek philosophy,
00:05:24.72\00:05:30.89
also the same time the
immortality of the soul.
00:05:30.93\00:05:32.66
I'm glad you're saying that
00:05:32.69\00:05:34.03
because it's very
easy to track, isn't that,
00:05:34.06\00:05:35.40
as a historian not
just a the theologian?
00:05:35.43\00:05:37.83
You can see where it came from.
00:05:37.87\00:05:39.20
But at the same time you have,
00:05:39.23\00:05:41.17
yes, Christians are
divided in the understanding
00:05:41.20\00:05:44.27
of what is
happening after death.
00:05:44.31\00:05:47.88
We believe that you
know, with this word
00:05:47.91\00:05:52.31
people are sleeping,
now God is powerful enough
00:05:52.35\00:05:55.08
to remember the
formula of every person
00:05:55.12\00:05:57.32
he can resurrect,
that's not a problem.
00:05:57.35\00:05:59.65
But the way--
00:05:59.69\00:06:01.02
this is part of the
good news, the hope,
00:06:01.06\00:06:02.72
the idea of
resurrection precisely
00:06:02.76\00:06:05.09
because God has the
power to resurrect the dead.
00:06:05.13\00:06:08.43
But if the dead
aren't really dead
00:06:08.46\00:06:10.37
and they go into another place,
00:06:10.40\00:06:12.07
that some how challenges
00:06:12.10\00:06:14.24
the view of the resurrection
in that sense but...
00:06:14.27\00:06:17.24
It makes it less
important, less necessary,
00:06:17.27\00:06:20.28
less meaningful.
00:06:20.31\00:06:21.94
If they're already
up in the disembodied,
00:06:21.98\00:06:25.98
glorious state with God.
00:06:26.01\00:06:29.05
This is the reason why
this had to be shared with grace
00:06:29.08\00:06:33.59
and with conviction,
of course, but with grace
00:06:33.62\00:06:36.76
so that people realize
that this is part of the hope
00:06:36.79\00:06:40.20
in the power of God, you know,
that God can resurrect people
00:06:40.23\00:06:45.07
as He did resurrect Jesus.
00:06:45.10\00:06:47.64
You know, Jesus
did not just go to,
00:06:47.67\00:06:52.54
you know, heaven, he slept
and be resurrected as a real--
00:06:52.57\00:06:56.51
So we will be as Christ did.
00:06:56.54\00:06:58.75
That's why when we are baptized,
00:06:58.78\00:07:00.75
we die and we resurrect.
00:07:00.78\00:07:02.42
So all those things, but--
00:07:02.45\00:07:03.79
It's more than just a ritual.
00:07:03.82\00:07:05.69
It's a figurative
of a great reality.
00:07:05.72\00:07:07.19
But again, this
is part of prophecy
00:07:07.22\00:07:09.26
that they will be
a great resurrection.
00:07:09.29\00:07:11.33
Daniel said very clearly
and the Book of Revelation
00:07:11.36\00:07:14.26
also expand on that in the sense
00:07:14.30\00:07:17.73
that God, you know, again--
00:07:17.77\00:07:20.27
And remember, Paul says,
behold, I show you a mystery.
00:07:20.30\00:07:22.64
We shall not all sleep.
No question, no question.
00:07:22.67\00:07:25.17
Some will be
translated as he say,
00:07:25.21\00:07:27.44
and that was his hope also
that those of us who are alive
00:07:27.48\00:07:31.28
and so forth.
00:07:31.31\00:07:32.85
But again, this is part
of the hope. It is beautiful.
00:07:32.88\00:07:36.75
That's part of the good news
that God is going to fix it.
00:07:36.79\00:07:39.99
He will come and--
00:07:40.02\00:07:43.06
Look at this
wonderful statement from Paul,
00:07:43.09\00:07:46.06
our corruptible
bodies will be transformed
00:07:46.09\00:07:50.63
and we will inherit
uncorruptible bidies in,
00:07:50.67\00:07:54.90
you know, 1 Corinthian 15.
00:07:54.94\00:07:56.74
Again, this is not just
the theological dispute.
00:07:56.77\00:07:59.81
Again, we with grace,
00:07:59.84\00:08:02.01
and we have to share
this as part of the good news
00:08:02.04\00:08:05.11
that God is
capable of resurrecting
00:08:05.15\00:08:07.98
those who are
sleeping, those who died.
00:08:08.02\00:08:11.35
But to come back to our,
you know, prophetic scenario...
00:08:11.39\00:08:15.09
Yeah, what is the
prophetic underpinning
00:08:15.12\00:08:17.26
to an Adventist
view of religious liberty
00:08:17.29\00:08:20.03
and fulfilling events and--
00:08:20.06\00:08:22.46
where is that heading?
00:08:22.50\00:08:23.83
The Bible say that
especially in the last days,
00:08:23.87\00:08:27.74
there would be
great tribulation, okay.
00:08:27.77\00:08:30.47
Now, the people
go on speculating
00:08:30.51\00:08:34.21
on the how this is going to
be and so forth and so on so.
00:08:34.24\00:08:37.45
But I think there
is a better route,
00:08:37.48\00:08:39.61
because, first of all,
this is part of what is called
00:08:39.65\00:08:44.02
The Great Controversy.
00:08:44.05\00:08:46.35
There is a struggle between--
00:08:46.39\00:08:48.29
Well, it's called by--
00:08:48.32\00:08:49.66
Between good and evil.
00:08:49.69\00:08:51.23
The term is not in the Bible,
00:08:51.26\00:08:53.13
all though the dynamic
00:08:53.16\00:08:55.00
is clearly what
it's talking about.
00:08:55.03\00:08:56.70
That's a term that the--
00:08:56.73\00:08:58.37
but then Adventism
it's being called that.
00:08:58.40\00:09:00.47
And I'd make it a little larger
for those at least remember
00:09:00.50\00:09:04.11
the education of SDA,
John Milton's Paradise Lost,
00:09:04.14\00:09:08.64
very much dramatically
puts it as a controversy.
00:09:08.68\00:09:12.51
A literal war in heaven
and between Satan and God,
00:09:12.55\00:09:15.65
and there's a victory to be won.
00:09:15.68\00:09:18.62
And even on Earth, right here,
00:09:18.65\00:09:20.92
when you think
about all the martyrs,
00:09:20.96\00:09:23.93
you know, we are talking
about serious things here.
00:09:23.96\00:09:26.80
As we speak, you know--
00:09:26.83\00:09:28.33
Well, people are dying
right now. That's a good point.
00:09:28.36\00:09:30.43
And not only that--
00:09:30.47\00:09:31.80
In the United
States and the West,
00:09:31.83\00:09:33.17
we think of the
tribulation in the future,
00:09:33.20\00:09:34.60
Christians often.
00:09:34.64\00:09:35.97
But it's now.
00:09:36.00\00:09:37.34
In the Middle East, right now
00:09:37.37\00:09:38.71
you had this dramatic
exodus of Christians persecuted,
00:09:38.74\00:09:43.08
killed, and so forth.
00:09:43.11\00:09:44.45
And not just there
but everywhere else also.
00:09:44.48\00:09:45.98
Just in the city of Mosul alone,
00:09:46.01\00:09:47.55
remember, not
one Christian left.
00:09:47.58\00:09:49.92
Second largest city in Iraq.
00:09:49.95\00:09:51.69
Yeah, but here's my point,
00:09:51.72\00:09:53.86
when we talk about end time
events and all those things,
00:09:53.89\00:09:57.03
this is not just for some time--
00:09:57.06\00:10:00.80
And I tell these people,
they smile when I say this,
00:10:00.83\00:10:04.27
but people are more
preoccupied by the beast
00:10:04.30\00:10:08.40
and by than following the lamb
because the Book of Revelation
00:10:08.44\00:10:14.28
is the
revelation of Jesus Christ.
00:10:14.31\00:10:16.41
So first, this is about Jesus.
00:10:16.44\00:10:19.08
How He, His lordship--
00:10:19.11\00:10:21.68
and it is so wonderful
00:10:21.72\00:10:23.39
when you think about,
precisely, the martyrs.
00:10:23.42\00:10:26.25
They are in
Revelation Chapter 12--
00:10:26.29\00:10:32.89
Chapter 11 already
when it is said that,
00:10:32.93\00:10:35.60
they did not love
their lives to death.
00:10:35.63\00:10:38.50
Why?
00:10:38.53\00:10:39.87
Because they love
God more importantly
00:10:39.90\00:10:41.34
than their own life.
00:10:41.37\00:10:42.70
Now, of course, in a world view
00:10:42.74\00:10:44.47
where everything is
anthropocentric meaning,
00:10:44.51\00:10:46.91
centered on human
beings we forget--
00:10:46.94\00:10:50.51
And I need to
insert something too,
00:10:50.55\00:10:51.88
before you get further.
00:10:51.91\00:10:53.25
This is not to be
equated with Osama Bin Laden,
00:10:53.28\00:10:55.22
who I thought in a
bizarre twist told the West
00:10:55.25\00:10:59.75
and the Christian
West, he says, trouble is,
00:10:59.79\00:11:01.46
he says, "you love
life, we love death."
00:11:01.49\00:11:04.09
The martyrs didn't love
death, they loved Christ.
00:11:04.13\00:11:06.59
If it meant dying--
00:11:06.63\00:11:08.63
As Paul says, "I count
it as gain to lose my life."
00:11:08.66\00:11:12.30
So it is very, very important
00:11:12.33\00:11:14.70
that we realize what
is happening in prophecy.
00:11:14.74\00:11:17.87
It's like God's encouragement.
00:11:17.91\00:11:20.84
Prophecy is really got
encouragement to His people
00:11:20.88\00:11:24.08
to say, things may
seem completely disordered,
00:11:24.11\00:11:27.82
you may be persecuted,
you may be discriminated,
00:11:27.85\00:11:30.52
you may be killed,
martyred, in other words.
00:11:30.55\00:11:34.09
But I control the
destiny of nations,
00:11:34.12\00:11:38.23
I control the
destiny of every human being.
00:11:38.26\00:11:41.46
Of course, that
doesn't mean you have a choice.
00:11:41.50\00:11:45.33
That doesn't mean
you didn't have a choice.
00:11:45.37\00:11:47.44
No, no, no, you have a
choice but as we trust God
00:11:47.47\00:11:51.24
who gives this prophecy,
these prophecies of Daniel
00:11:51.27\00:11:54.71
and then further on Revelation,
00:11:54.74\00:11:56.85
He encourages us
to continue in hope.
00:11:56.88\00:12:00.52
It will not do to
describe religious liberty
00:12:02.95\00:12:06.12
without Jesus Christ.
00:12:06.15\00:12:08.99
When Jesus began
His earthly ministry,
00:12:09.02\00:12:10.96
it was by no accident
00:12:10.99\00:12:12.36
that when he
stood up in Nazareth
00:12:12.39\00:12:15.06
and read from the book, Isaiah,
00:12:15.10\00:12:17.33
that he applied that message
of liberation and freedom
00:12:17.37\00:12:21.20
from captivity,
captivity to sin.
00:12:21.24\00:12:24.64
He described that in a way
that of course, is evocative
00:12:24.67\00:12:28.14
and demonstrative
of religious liberty
00:12:28.18\00:12:31.08
because the
Gospel is nothing more
00:12:31.11\00:12:33.78
than the
proclamation of liberation.
00:12:33.82\00:12:37.35
So in our day, we
discuss religious liberty,
00:12:37.39\00:12:40.42
we can of course,
invoke constitutions
00:12:40.46\00:12:42.76
and history and social norms.
00:12:42.79\00:12:45.19
But unless we invoke Christ,
00:12:45.23\00:12:48.83
unless we look
to His principles,
00:12:48.86\00:12:51.33
look to His kingdom,
it's an empty discussion.
00:12:51.37\00:12:55.37
Liberty must have Christ.
00:12:55.40\00:12:58.37
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:12:58.41\00:13:01.18