Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000305A
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00:24 Welcome to the "Liberty Insider."
00:26 This is the program bringing you up-to-date news, views, 00:29 discussion and insights 00:31 on religious liberty developments around the world. 00:34 My name is Lincoln Stead, Editor of Liberty Magazine 00:38 and my guest on the program is Dr. Ganoune Diop. 00:42 Welcome, Ganoune. Thank you. 00:44 You've fairly recently been elected director 00:48 for public affairs and religious liberty 00:50 for the world headquarters 00:52 of the Seventh-day Adventist Church 00:53 but not just the head quarters, for the world. 00:57 May be in another program 00:59 we can talk about your background, Ganoune. 01:02 Is there a literal meaning to the word Ganoune? 01:05 It's sort of foreign from John or Lincoln. 01:08 Yes, actually the word Ganoune originally is a Semitic word. 01:15 "Hanoune" from "Hannah" means grace actually 01:19 and then but in where I was born in Senegal, 01:24 they don't have the guttural "Hanoune," 01:27 so Ganoune, anyway so I got that name. 01:32 Anyhow, it's a very unique name and I'm sure 01:37 people are going to learn to know 01:38 and recognize your name because you're already showing 01:41 very strong leadership for religious liberty 01:44 in the Seventh-day Adventist Church. 01:49 We had some meetings recently 01:51 where somebody who knew in college 01:53 remarked that they remembered you with your afro 01:58 and I can't look at you the same now 02:00 because nobody looks at me and remembers my hair either. 02:05 But, you grew up in Senegal 02:11 but you were educated in France, right. 02:14 Well, part in Senegal, part in France, and part in the US. 02:18 So, I have studied in three different countries. 02:20 And in common with your predecessor 02:22 you got a doctorate at the Sorbonne 02:25 in France, Paris. 02:27 Well, I-- at the Catholic University, 02:33 but I got a doctorate 02:34 at Andrew's University actually. 02:35 Oh, but you did study at the Sorbonne? 02:37 I did study at the Sorbonne. 02:38 I got also a master's degree in Paris in particular. 02:43 Pretty good, just to be in Paris 02:44 for sometime would be enviable I think. 02:49 One of the roles that you've continued from your predecessor 02:54 Dr. Graz was-- you are secretary 02:57 of the Christian World Communions. 03:00 Correct. 03:01 Now, I know that this is quite an influential 03:05 position and organization. 03:07 Explain a little bit about it 03:08 because I know in our own church, 03:09 you and I of course Seventh-day Adventist, 03:12 we have, had historic suspicion 03:15 of joining with too many other churches in particular 03:18 the world council of churches, 03:20 good organization on many levels 03:22 and made up of many wonderful church groups. 03:25 But their goals of decades ago 03:28 well stated were to sort of bring 03:29 all the churches together 03:31 in a synchronistic sort of union 03:33 which we are uncomfortable with. 03:35 How does the Christian World Communions work? 03:37 Is it on that same sort of wavelength 03:39 or is it something a little different? 03:41 No, this, not the same but before may be 03:45 while the Christian World Communions 03:47 is an organization that 03:49 is that doesn't require membership per say. 03:53 This our Christian communions various actually this-- 03:58 you are talking about literally representative 04:01 of about two billion Christians having a forum 04:05 where its communion can 04:08 while keeping its distinctive voice talk to one another. 04:13 This is a forum where people communicate share-- 04:17 So, it's more of a forum than an organization? 04:20 Exactly. 04:21 For example there's no place where we can say, 04:24 this is the headquarters or something unlike 04:27 the World Council of Churches. 04:29 For example, where we have secretary general 04:32 and then an organization, a coalition of churches 04:36 or the Global Christian Forum which is another organization, 04:41 where Christians meet in an order to share 04:44 their Christian journey in particular. 04:47 So, there's no, the Seventh-day Adventist 04:50 has as a principle not to join informal membership 04:57 to a canonical organization 05:01 but the Seventh-day Adventist Church accept, 05:04 observe the status in many. 05:07 We are living in a world where it is necessary, 05:11 absolutely to mingle 05:13 with other people, with other Christians. 05:14 Good point, I know that not just your predecessor 05:17 Dr. Bert Beach who had the same position for many years. 05:23 He had the observer status 05:25 and would as often as he could go 05:27 and in that sense participate in World Council of Churches 05:32 but we were not a member and we certainly are not 05:36 a part of the dynamic that I think has weakened 05:39 a bit from that organization 05:40 but trying to bring everyone into an umbrella, 05:43 singular Christian voice but tell me if I'm wrong, 05:49 I don't think Seventh-day Adventist 05:52 have any thing against joining with other Christians 05:55 in fact, that should be the goal. 05:57 We don't believe in joining without on a disparate terms. 06:04 We should all come together in Christ 06:06 and on a clear understanding of Him. 06:07 But different churches hold 06:09 very particular doctrinal understandings 06:11 that are incompatible from our perspective 06:13 as we would be from this 06:15 in compatible with that full communion. 06:18 You know, may be we can look at this even from a, 06:21 from another angle, meaning the issue of unity 06:27 because that is really what is-- 06:29 What's I was doing at long hand but you come with it, yes. 06:30 But that's really what is at stake here. 06:33 Now, should Adventist be seen as the enemies of unity 06:39 that would mean the Adventist would be the enemies of God 06:42 because God is a God of unity. Yeah. 06:45 Christ prayed for unity-- That they may be one. 06:49 Absolutely, in John 17 but what is at stake is here 06:53 is Adventists resist doctrinal alliances syncretistic 06:59 and I mean-- 07:00 And I used that word before too, syncretism. 07:02 Or unity that is not grounded 07:05 on what Christ defines as unity. 07:08 Because when you look carefully at John 17 the prayer, 07:12 Christ prayed for unity 07:14 but that unity is based on truth, 07:18 that unity is based on being kept from the evil one, 07:22 that unity is-- All based on God, 07:25 it's the closeness and spiritual affinity to God. 07:27 God. God. 07:28 And so it is basically also a unity in sanctification, 07:32 a unity in fellowship with Jesus Christ. 07:35 So Adventist should be champions of unity 07:38 but not the wrong one. 07:40 I think, and also, I think people have some 07:43 unrealistic ideas about unity because-- 07:46 okay, this idea of even a communism 07:50 sometime is misunderstood, it is as if "oh, 07:53 okay, now all the churches are, you know, together. 07:55 There's only one leader." 07:58 That kind of unity would only be possible 08:00 if people relinquish their distinctive identity 08:04 that is impossible. 08:06 Well, it has been recommendable though. 08:08 Well, well, now people again-- 08:10 You and I know practically speaking it'll be impossible. 08:13 It's impossible. 08:14 That I'll repeat again because this is a good context 08:16 if you'll allow me. 08:17 When I was in Australia last working, 08:21 this was about 37 years ago, 08:23 they united several churches together. 08:25 It was an advanced experiment 08:27 and then Archbishop of Canterbury came out 08:30 and they asked him on television, 08:32 you know, "What is this unity? How does it work?" 08:34 And he says "Well, it is, you know, theologians, 08:36 they argue about stuff." 08:38 He says, but the real unity 08:39 happens when the members of the two churches 08:41 get together over afternoon tea and fellowship 08:44 and he says the " theologians can discuss this stuff forever, 08:47 doesn't mater." 08:48 He says "join with us, let's all join together, 08:50 put aside the doctoral differences." 08:52 And he says "we can work it out later but join first." 08:56 And the interviewer said "but what about if afterwards 08:59 those things can't be reconciled?" 09:01 And I'll never forget his answer. 09:02 He says "well, then it's like a diseased part of the body, 09:05 it must be cut off and destroyed." 09:07 So, that sort of an attempt 09:10 to just negate serious differences of understanding 09:16 because doctrine is just an understanding of God, 09:18 isn't it, and the methods 09:20 of christian behavior to put those aside 09:23 and then think you got real unity, 09:25 he even knew that's impossible. 09:27 You some how have to get rid of the dissonance. 09:30 And so that call to unity 09:31 I think is ultimately dangerous. 09:33 Well, yes, in that sense, 09:36 whenever violence is used against-- 09:39 Well, he was using a violent term 09:40 and how he happened to execute it. 09:42 Yeah, but push it further. What is that people fear? 09:46 Whenever violence is used against anyone 09:50 that is against religious freedom, 09:51 and this is why religious freedom is so important, 09:53 it's like an antidote-- 09:55 Or even collision because it would be physical violence 09:58 but emotional violence where you are pressured 10:00 by a community or at the churches. 10:03 I think that's wrong. 10:04 No but any form of violence 10:05 against the integrity of the human person 10:08 is a violation of that person's indignity, 10:11 that person's worth and so forth. 10:13 So, therefore anyone who would advocate the idea, 10:18 or whoever is against 10:21 this kind of a unity should be cut off 10:23 and so that is, I mean, 10:26 that is an obscurantist, that is evil 10:28 basically in that sense now with all due respect 10:31 to whoever said that. 10:33 So but the reason why I say, there's a unity 10:37 that is construed in peoples mind 10:40 as if it is a reality but it is a myth. 10:42 I mean, let me give an example. 10:45 Over now 50 years, right, some Christian traditions 10:49 are talking to one another 10:51 but they cannot even share the communion. 10:54 So in other words, it is not happening. 10:57 It is not happening now but unity to elevate suffering, 11:02 unity to help humanity but this is-- 11:06 Certain common cause we should have. 11:08 But this is where Adventist cannot isolate ourselves. 11:13 We have a portfolio that is remarkable. 11:15 I mean, I didn't mention that earlier-- 11:20 I didn't mentioned that earlier 11:21 when, you know, when we talked about the U.N. 11:26 but think about our portfolio. 11:28 Adventist invest and this is part of our 11:33 lifestyle, health, education, 11:35 humanitarian, human rights, think about it, 11:39 one of the oldest religious liberty 11:41 organization I.R.L.A. has been-- 11:44 International Religious Liberty Association. 11:45 Liberty Association, thank you, you see you are more acquainted 11:49 to this setting, you have to. 11:50 Okay, so, very, very interesting, started in 1893. 11:57 So that means very early Adventists 11:59 had this consciousness that 12:01 this freedom is really important 12:03 to focus on. It is an antidote precisely-- 12:06 And what we should say, this was only 12:07 a hand full of years after the establishment 12:09 of the church itself. No question. 12:10 So that was almost from the very beginning. 12:12 From the very beginning precisely 12:14 because they were a minority 12:16 and therefore had developed the consciousness, 12:18 you know, our rights-- 12:20 Let me tell you of one of the, the liberty precursor, 12:22 the sentinel was a few years earlier than that. 12:25 That is correct. Now you can-- 12:27 No, but the consciousness of religious liberty 12:30 in our movement that became a church 12:34 was from the very, very beginning. 12:36 And I think it was apart from prophecy, 12:39 it was because they had been ejected 12:41 as Millerites before the church. 12:42 They'd been ejected with prejudice 12:44 from many different churches. 12:45 Again, what you are mentioning about unity, 12:48 you know, to come back to that fear of many is that, 12:53 oh, they would be dismissed 12:56 if they don't confirm to the communicable world. 12:59 But not necessary, there's more to the idea of unity 13:03 and maybe, you know, next-- 13:05 Well, of course, true Christian unity is God's ideal. 13:07 Stay with us we'll be back to continue this discussion 13:09 with Dr. Diop after a short break. |
Revised 2015-10-08