Welcome to the
"Liberty Insider."
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This is the program bringing
you up-to-date news, views,
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discussion and insights
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on religious liberty
developments around the world.
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My name is Lincoln Stead,
Editor of Liberty Magazine
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and my guest on the
program is Dr. Ganoune Diop.
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Welcome, Ganoune. Thank you.
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You've fairly
recently been elected director
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for public affairs
and religious liberty
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for the world headquarters
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of the
Seventh-day Adventist Church
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but not just the head
quarters, for the world.
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May be in another program
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we can talk about
your background, Ganoune.
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Is there a literal
meaning to the word Ganoune?
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It's sort of foreign
from John or Lincoln.
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Yes, actually the word Ganoune
originally is a Semitic word.
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"Hanoune" from
"Hannah" means grace actually
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and then but in where
I was born in Senegal,
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they don't have
the guttural "Hanoune,"
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so Ganoune, anyway
so I got that name.
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Anyhow, it's a very
unique name and I'm sure
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people are
going to learn to know
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and recognize your name
because you're already showing
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very strong
leadership for religious liberty
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in the
Seventh-day Adventist Church.
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We had some meetings recently
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where somebody
who knew in college
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remarked that they
remembered you with your afro
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and I can't look
at you the same now
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because nobody looks at me
and remembers my hair either.
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But, you grew up in Senegal
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but you were
educated in France, right.
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Well, part in Senegal, part
in France, and part in the US.
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So, I have studied in
three different countries.
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And in common
with your predecessor
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you got a
doctorate at the Sorbonne
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in France, Paris.
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Well, I-- at the
Catholic University,
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but I got a doctorate
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at Andrew's University actually.
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Oh, but you did
study at the Sorbonne?
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I did study at the Sorbonne.
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I got also a master's
degree in Paris in particular.
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Pretty good, just to be in Paris
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for sometime would
be enviable I think.
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One of the roles that you've
continued from your predecessor
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Dr. Graz was-- you are secretary
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of the Christian
World Communions.
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Correct.
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Now, I know that this
is quite an influential
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position and organization.
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Explain a little bit about it
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because I know
in our own church,
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you and I of course
Seventh-day Adventist,
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we have, had historic suspicion
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of joining with too many
other churches in particular
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the world council of churches,
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good organization on many levels
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and made up of many
wonderful church groups.
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But their goals of decades ago
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well stated
were to sort of bring
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all the churches together
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in a synchronistic sort of union
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which we are uncomfortable with.
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How does the
Christian World Communions work?
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Is it on that
same sort of wavelength
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or is it something
a little different?
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No, this, not the
same but before may be
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while the
Christian World Communions
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is an organization that
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is that doesn't
require membership per say.
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This our Christian communions
various actually this--
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you are talking about
literally representative
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of about two billion
Christians having a forum
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where its communion can
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while keeping its distinctive
voice talk to one another.
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This is a forum where
people communicate share--
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So, it's more of a
forum than an organization?
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Exactly.
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For example there's no
place where we can say,
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this is the
headquarters or something unlike
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the World Council of Churches.
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For example, where we
have secretary general
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and then an organization,
a coalition of churches
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or the Global Christian Forum
which is another organization,
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where Christians
meet in an order to share
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their Christian
journey in particular.
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So, there's no, the
Seventh-day Adventist
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has as a principle not
to join informal membership
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to a canonical organization
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but the Seventh-day
Adventist Church accept,
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observe the status in many.
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We are living in a
world where it is necessary,
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absolutely to mingle
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with other people,
with other Christians.
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Good point, I know that
not just your predecessor
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Dr. Bert Beach who had the
same position for many years.
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He had the observer status
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and would as
often as he could go
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and in that sense participate
in World Council of Churches
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but we were not a
member and we certainly are not
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a part of the dynamic
that I think has weakened
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a bit from that organization
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but trying to bring
everyone into an umbrella,
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singular Christian voice
but tell me if I'm wrong,
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I don't think
Seventh-day Adventist
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have any thing against
joining with other Christians
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in fact, that
should be the goal.
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We don't believe in joining
without on a disparate terms.
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We should all
come together in Christ
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and on a clear
understanding of Him.
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But different churches hold
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very particular
doctrinal understandings
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that are incompatible
from our perspective
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as we would be from this
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in compatible with
that full communion.
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You know, may be we can
look at this even from a,
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from another angle,
meaning the issue of unity
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because that is really what is--
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What's I was doing at long
hand but you come with it, yes.
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But that's really
what is at stake here.
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Now, should Adventist be
seen as the enemies of unity
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that would mean the Adventist
would be the enemies of God
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because God is a
God of unity. Yeah.
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Christ prayed for
unity-- That they may be one.
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Absolutely, in John 17
but what is at stake is here
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is Adventists resist
doctrinal alliances syncretistic
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and I mean--
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And I used that word
before too, syncretism.
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Or unity that is not grounded
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on what Christ defines as unity.
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Because when you look
carefully at John 17 the prayer,
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Christ prayed for unity
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but that unity
is based on truth,
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that unity is based on
being kept from the evil one,
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that unity is--
All based on God,
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it's the closeness and
spiritual affinity to God.
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God. God.
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And so it is basically
also a unity in sanctification,
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a unity in
fellowship with Jesus Christ.
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So Adventist should
be champions of unity
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but not the wrong one.
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I think, and also, I
think people have some
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unrealistic ideas
about unity because--
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okay, this idea
of even a communism
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sometime is
misunderstood, it is as if "oh,
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okay, now all the churches
are, you know, together.
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There's only one leader."
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That kind of unity
would only be possible
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if people relinquish
their distinctive identity
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that is impossible.
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Well, it has been
recommendable though.
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Well, well, now people again--
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You and I know practically
speaking it'll be impossible.
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It's impossible.
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That I'll repeat again
because this is a good context
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if you'll allow me.
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When I was in
Australia last working,
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this was about 37 years ago,
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they united
several churches together.
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It was an advanced experiment
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and then Archbishop
of Canterbury came out
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and they asked
him on television,
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you know, "What is this
unity? How does it work?"
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And he says "Well, it
is, you know, theologians,
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they argue about stuff."
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He says, but the real unity
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happens when the
members of the two churches
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get together over
afternoon tea and fellowship
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and he says the " theologians
can discuss this stuff forever,
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doesn't mater."
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He says "join with us,
let's all join together,
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put aside the
doctoral differences."
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And he says "we can work
it out later but join first."
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And the interviewer said
"but what about if afterwards
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those things
can't be reconciled?"
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And I'll never
forget his answer.
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He says "well, then it's like
a diseased part of the body,
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it must be cut
off and destroyed."
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So, that sort of an attempt
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to just negate serious
differences of understanding
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because doctrine is
just an understanding of God,
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isn't it, and the methods
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of christian
behavior to put those aside
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and then think
you got real unity,
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he even knew that's impossible.
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You some how have to
get rid of the dissonance.
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And so that call to unity
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I think is ultimately dangerous.
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Well, yes, in that sense,
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whenever
violence is used against--
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Well, he was
using a violent term
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and how he
happened to execute it.
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Yeah, but push it further.
What is that people fear?
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Whenever violence
is used against anyone
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that is against
religious freedom,
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and this is why religious
freedom is so important,
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it's like an antidote--
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Or even collision because
it would be physical violence
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but emotional violence
where you are pressured
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by a community
or at the churches.
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I think that's wrong.
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No but any form of violence
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against the
integrity of the human person
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is a violation of
that person's indignity,
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that person's
worth and so forth.
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So, therefore anyone
who would advocate the idea,
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or whoever is against
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this kind of a
unity should be cut off
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and so that is, I mean,
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that is an
obscurantist, that is evil
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basically in that sense
now with all due respect
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to whoever said that.
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So but the reason why
I say, there's a unity
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that is
construed in peoples mind
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as if it is a
reality but it is a myth.
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I mean, let me give an example.
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Over now 50 years,
right, some Christian traditions
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are talking to one another
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but they cannot
even share the communion.
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So in other words,
it is not happening.
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It is not happening now
but unity to elevate suffering,
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unity to help
humanity but this is--
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Certain common
cause we should have.
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But this is where Adventist
cannot isolate ourselves.
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We have a
portfolio that is remarkable.
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I mean, I didn't
mention that earlier--
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I didn't mentioned that earlier
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when, you know, when
we talked about the U.N.
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but think about our portfolio.
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Adventist invest
and this is part of our
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lifestyle, health, education,
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humanitarian, human
rights, think about it,
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one of the
oldest religious liberty
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organization I.R.L.A. has been--
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International
Religious Liberty Association.
00:11:44.50\00:11:45.83
Liberty Association, thank you,
you see you are more acquainted
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to this setting, you have to.
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Okay, so, very, very
interesting, started in 1893.
00:11:50.71\00:11:57.11
So that means
very early Adventists
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had this consciousness that
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this freedom is really important
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to focus on. It is
an antidote precisely--
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And what we
should say, this was only
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a hand full of years
after the establishment
00:12:07.52\00:12:09.36
of the church
itself. No question.
00:12:09.39\00:12:10.89
So that was almost
from the very beginning.
00:12:10.93\00:12:12.49
From the very
beginning precisely
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because they were a minority
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and therefore had
developed the consciousness,
00:12:16.36\00:12:18.70
you know, our rights--
00:12:18.73\00:12:20.07
Let me tell you of one of
the, the liberty precursor,
00:12:20.10\00:12:22.57
the sentinel was a few
years earlier than that.
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That is correct. Now you can--
00:12:25.77\00:12:27.81
No, but the consciousness
of religious liberty
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in our movement
that became a church
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was from the
very, very beginning.
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And I think it was
apart from prophecy,
00:12:36.82\00:12:39.12
it was because
they had been ejected
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as Millerites before the church.
00:12:41.42\00:12:42.79
They'd been
ejected with prejudice
00:12:42.82\00:12:44.43
from many different churches.
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Again, what you are
mentioning about unity,
00:12:45.96\00:12:48.30
you know, to come back to
that fear of many is that,
00:12:48.33\00:12:53.60
oh, they would be dismissed
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if they don't confirm
to the communicable world.
00:12:56.30\00:12:59.44
But not necessary, there's
more to the idea of unity
00:12:59.47\00:13:03.75
and maybe, you know, next--
00:13:03.78\00:13:05.11
Well, of course, true
Christian unity is God's ideal.
00:13:05.15\00:13:07.45
Stay with us we'll be back
to continue this discussion
00:13:07.48\00:13:09.82
with Dr. Diop
after a short break.
00:13:09.85\00:13:11.79