Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000304A
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00:22 Welcome to the "Liberty Insider."
00:24 This is a program bringing you news, discussion, 00:27 up-to-date views and overall analysis 00:29 of religious liberty around the world 00:32 and in the United States today. 00:34 My name is Lincoln Steed, Editor of "Liberty Magazine" 00:38 and my guest on the program Dr. Ganoune Diop. 00:41 Welcome, Ganoune. Thank you. 00:43 Your recently elected position is head of public affairs 00:48 and religious liberty for the world church 00:50 of the Seventh-day Adventist. 00:52 Well, headquarters of the Seventh-day Adventist church. 00:55 Let's talk about the issue religious liberty. 01:01 In an earlier program we gave it a biblical starting point 01:06 but how is it perceive today? 01:08 What is, you know, how can religious liberty 01:11 in its truest, fullest, most biblical, 01:13 most transcendence sense be applied 01:16 to modern political structures and social structures 01:18 because those are changing rapidly, aren't they? 01:21 Oh definitely. 01:22 I mean, especially in, I mean, in America right now 01:26 that probably every day you here 01:29 this word religious liberty, religious liberty 01:32 and usually applied to this narrow field-- 01:37 Well, I call it entitlement. 01:39 This has become an entitlement call 01:40 not true religious liberty. 01:42 Religious liberty is broader, you know, 01:44 again we mentioned earlier 01:46 that religious liberty is primordial freedom. 01:49 But not only that, what is really important 01:51 about religious liberty is that 01:53 it is connected to all other freedom. 01:56 There is a saying at the United Nations 01:59 and may be we can talk about that later, 02:02 whereby people say, all human rights 02:05 are interrelated, interdependent and indivisible. 02:10 Okay. 02:11 Now when it comes to fundamental freedoms-- 02:15 Now we got to be careful, some of our viewers 02:18 I'm sure that don't understand the United Nations. 02:21 They say, well, that's just globalism. 02:24 Well, we will conclude that-- One world government. 02:27 We will-- 02:28 And in that part of that they are very afraid of 02:29 so you're fill-- you're talking about 02:31 philosophically from the United Nations 02:34 this concept not about governing 02:36 principle for welfare. 02:37 Ofcourse, but before we come to the UN I would like to just, 02:41 you know, define this concept of 02:44 why religious freedom is really foundational. 02:47 And the UN, you know, we will talk about that soon. 02:51 But reason why I mentioned that the human rights 02:53 are interdependent-- interrelated, 02:57 interdependent and indivisible so they go together. 03:00 If I defend this right 03:02 it should be connected to another right too, 03:04 you know, its not we can choose-- 03:06 No. So they are interrelated. 03:08 And they said many times and I think, 03:10 I particularly remembered Hillary Clinton 03:12 speaking at our Liberty dinner just before you came I think 03:16 but she said, you can pretty much 03:19 tell the state of human rights in a country 03:23 by have a treat religious liberty. 03:24 It was a litmus test. 03:26 Well, because it is central to all other freedom 03:29 and so it is a primordial freedom, 03:31 it is central to all other freedom. 03:34 It is connected to all of them and the reason being 03:38 religious liberty is connect 03:39 as I mention earlier to freedom of conscience. 03:42 It is the freedom to profess, 03:47 to practice and to propagate one's faith. 03:51 You know, without being coarse or force not to do so. 03:56 And it's a freedom to change your religion. 03:58 Of course, that too. 03:59 You know, you mentioning the United Nations, 04:02 what about this Universal Declaration 04:03 of Human Rights? 04:05 Well, Article 18 is very explicit precisely that-- 04:08 If it is just tell out these things. 04:09 Yes, express out 04:11 and including the one that you have just mentioned 04:13 which is a difficult one for many nations 04:15 who had not really embraced that part meaning, 04:18 the freedom to change one's religion. 04:21 But actually if you don't have 04:23 the freedom to change your religion 04:25 that means you won't have the freedom of choice. 04:27 You see again, you don't follow your conscience. 04:31 So this is why the same way that people say human rights 04:36 are interrelated, interdependent and indivisible. 04:40 I can say the same thing as far as fundamental freedoms. 04:43 They are interrelated, interdependent and indivisible. 04:47 Freedom of conscience 04:49 is connected to religious freedom, 04:50 is connected to freedom of thought, 04:52 it is connected to freedom of propagating on one's faith, 04:57 it is connecting therefore to freedom of expression. 04:59 Again this is why freedom, 05:02 religious freedom is so important. 05:04 Now as I mentioned earlier it is important 05:07 because if I deprive you, 05:10 I mean, I may allow you to vote, 05:12 I may allow you to, 05:13 I mean, so to speak of course to do many things 05:17 but if you do not have freedom of religion or belief 05:22 because it is also the freedom to not believe, you know. 05:26 Yes, and that's the important element 05:28 that many people forget. 05:30 Absolutely. 05:31 Even an atheist or an agnostic is exercising 05:33 their religion freedom. 05:35 This is a freedom for all 05:36 so they call it religious freedom 05:37 because, you know, I mean 05:39 historically it started like that 05:40 but actually right now at the UN 05:42 and we will come back to the UN issue. 05:46 It is labeled as freedom of religion or belief 05:50 because and that means non-belief also. 05:52 Now may be this is the good time to interject 05:54 for our viewers. 05:56 You just recently been made elected 06:00 director for public affairs and religious liberty 06:02 but in the years before that you were functioning 06:04 as liaison at the United Nations. 06:08 Yes. 06:09 So you know that aspect very, very well I know. 06:12 Yes. Yeah. 06:13 Now may be let me just-- may be we can come back 06:15 to the religious freedom issue later 06:18 but it's important to realize 06:22 as far as the Seventh-day Adventist church is concerned 06:25 it is not just now that the Seventh-day Adventist Church 06:27 has a official liaison or an ambassador 06:31 to the United Nations and people ask why. 06:34 If you go to the Adventist constitution 06:37 and specifically the working policy 06:39 the mandate is written, this is vote, 06:42 a voted document known. 06:45 It is available on the web and so forth 06:48 whereby the Adventist church says very clearly 06:51 that the PARL department, 06:53 the department of Public Affairs 06:55 and Religious Liberty 06:56 has to make connection with government that's clear, 07:01 so political entities-- 07:03 Apostle Paul said, that that was 07:04 an imperative for Christian witness. 07:07 Absolutely. 07:09 Speaking before kings and authorities. 07:10 Absolutely. 07:11 And this is one of the most neglected field of mission 07:14 by the way, but-- 07:16 so the Seventh-day Adventist church 07:17 is intentional about connecting to, 07:22 I mean, connected with government 07:24 with international organizations 07:26 and actually in the working policy 07:28 it is very clearly stated 07:30 that United Nations in particular the ECOSOC, 07:36 Economic and Social Council-- 07:38 Yes, you got the social status. Yes. 07:39 Acronyms, ECOSOC means Economic and Social Council. 07:42 Yes and cultural-- this is the entity 07:45 that actually basically monitored 07:47 and served the world in terms off-- 07:50 And we are there 07:51 as a non-governmental organization. 07:52 Non-governmental organization. Or an NGO. 07:54 NGO. Again acronym. 07:56 Exactly. 07:57 But this is not something that, 07:59 you know, some of us would be passioned about-- 08:01 no, no, it's a mandate from the church. 08:04 But why is that so? 08:06 Again you have to understand what the UN is fundamentally. 08:10 I am not talking about conspiracy theories 08:13 and so forth. 08:14 People say so many things against. 08:16 Now, of course there is no perfect human organization 08:20 on earth, not one, okay. 08:23 So that's one thing. 08:24 Second we could not-- we would not expect every person 08:29 in every organization to be morally or to have an agenda 08:33 that is confirm to the kingdom of God. 08:35 But when you look at the United Nations fundamentally 08:39 you have three pillars. 08:41 Now you have to remember this organization was formally, 08:45 you know, organized right after World War II. 08:51 When you think about it-- Well, you are right. 08:52 It shows its ancestry that goes after World War I 08:55 with league of nations. 08:56 Correct. 08:58 And that were designed to after huge human problems 09:00 bringing the nations together to talk rather than to fight. 09:03 Absolutely. 09:04 And why was that 09:05 but in particular I am referring here to the UN, 09:09 and think about December 10, 1948 09:12 right after the two world wars, 09:14 so people had a decision 09:17 whether to continue to wage wars 09:19 or to built in peace. 09:21 Isn't there that the statue out front of the UN, 09:23 I still remember with the-- 09:25 it says that they should-- from Ezekiel isn't it, 09:26 "They shall take their swords into plowshares." 09:30 Absolutely, but so whatever-- 09:33 So it had-- my point is there was really almost 09:36 a biblical awareness at the moment of founding that. 09:39 I would not say that 09:40 they were driven by the Bible or something. 09:42 No, no, no, but an awareness that's what I am saying. 09:44 Yes. 09:45 It was resonating with them what the Bible said 09:47 and it was such a shock for the-- 09:49 that we need to go back to-- 09:50 The desire for piece. 09:52 The desire for piece I think defiantly 09:54 and you are right, is part of the human fabric. 09:56 Of course, whatever is good I believe would resonate 09:59 with biblical ideals anyway 10:01 but I think it is really important to realize 10:05 after this two world wars and occupation 10:07 and we are taking about millions people 10:10 killed in Europe. 10:11 Sixty million. A whole generation. 10:13 Some even push this to 100 million, you know, 10:18 it was just madness, pure madness. 10:20 How could people continue to kill themselves like that? 10:22 Anyway the League of the Nations decided 10:25 let's now built piece instead of waging wars 10:29 and the UN pillars, 10:30 the foundation that's sustained. 10:32 Now we are not taking about the perfect human beings 10:35 and all those things. 10:37 No, only God is, right. 10:38 But we are taking about the people deciding-- 10:40 these are the three pillars we would like to develop. 10:43 The first pillar of UN is actually peace and security, 10:46 first pillar. 10:48 Second pillar, they realize there will be no peace 10:51 or security without justice. 10:53 So the second pillar is justice and of course development. 10:56 And then the third pillar, now we are taking about 10:59 the desire's of the nation what they want. 11:01 It doesn't mean that they succeed 11:03 they have succeeded and so but this is decide 11:06 the foundational principle what they want, 11:07 decent security, justice and development 11:10 and finally human rights. 11:13 And human rights particularly three things now, of course 11:17 people have lofty goals but it doesn't mean that, 11:20 you know, practically it has been realized 11:23 but this third pillar in particular 11:25 can be divided into three, individual liberty, 11:29 again the idea for liberty, personal equality 11:34 and then life and dignity. 11:35 Now I think you would agree with me a big part of 11:39 or big part of the dynamic of United Nations 11:42 exemplifying these principles 11:44 was the role of the United States 11:46 and it is not a material of the United Nations 11:48 is in the United States. 11:50 I think, you know, in a significant way 11:52 the US was able to project 11:53 its liberal values into this new organization. 11:57 Well, I would say-- 11:59 Well, I am saying that for a reason 12:00 because many of our viewers that I have contact with 12:04 and as I travel and I think you pick this up too. 12:06 They have this deep suspicion about the very nature 12:09 of the United Nations. 12:11 They think it something antithetical to the principles 12:14 in a liberal democracy 12:16 but it actually derived from thinking 12:18 of the liberal democratic principles. 12:20 But I would hesitate though personally 12:23 to limit the authorship 12:27 or the creation of this organization 12:29 to the US because many-- 12:30 Well the US played the leading role, obviously 12:33 as it did with the League of Nations. 12:34 Well, I mean, of course we have Mrs. Roosevelt, I mean, Eleanor 12:40 and so forth yes, but this was an international coalition 12:43 and I think we should be careful 12:45 not to give all credits to America. 12:47 Well, I know why you've caused this 12:48 because we don't want to project it is only-- 12:50 Yes, an American, no, absolutely not. 12:52 Let's take a break. 12:54 We will back with this continuing this 12:55 very interesting discursion with Dr. Ganoune Diop. 12:58 Stay with us. |
Revised 2015-10-08