Welcome to the
"Liberty Insider."
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This is a program
bringing you news, discussion,
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up-to-date views
and overall analysis
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of religious
liberty around the world
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and in the United States today.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
Editor of "Liberty Magazine"
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and my guest on the
program Dr. Ganoune Diop.
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Welcome, Ganoune. Thank you.
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Your recently elected position
is head of public affairs
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and religious
liberty for the world church
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of the Seventh-day Adventist.
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Well, headquarters of the
Seventh-day Adventist church.
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Let's talk about the
issue religious liberty.
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In an earlier program we gave
it a biblical starting point
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but how is it perceive today?
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What is, you know,
how can religious liberty
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in its truest,
fullest, most biblical,
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most
transcendence sense be applied
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to modern political
structures and social structures
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because those are
changing rapidly, aren't they?
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Oh definitely.
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I mean, especially in, I
mean, in America right now
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that probably every day you here
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this word religious
liberty, religious liberty
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and usually applied
to this narrow field--
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Well, I call it entitlement.
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This has become
an entitlement call
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not true religious liberty.
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Religious liberty
is broader, you know,
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again we mentioned earlier
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that religious
liberty is primordial freedom.
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But not only that,
what is really important
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about religious liberty is that
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it is connected
to all other freedom.
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There is a saying
at the United Nations
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and may be we can
talk about that later,
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whereby people
say, all human rights
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are interrelated,
interdependent and indivisible.
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Okay.
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Now when it comes to
fundamental freedoms--
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Now we got to be
careful, some of our viewers
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I'm sure that don't
understand the United Nations.
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They say, well,
that's just globalism.
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Well, we will conclude
that-- One world government.
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We will--
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And in that part of
that they are very afraid of
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so you're fill--
you're talking about
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philosophically
from the United Nations
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this concept not about governing
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principle for welfare.
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Ofcourse, but before we come
to the UN I would like to just,
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you know, define this concept of
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why religious freedom
is really foundational.
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And the UN, you know, we
will talk about that soon.
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But reason why I
mentioned that the human rights
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are
interdependent-- interrelated,
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interdependent and
indivisible so they go together.
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If I defend this right
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it should be
connected to another right too,
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you know, its
not we can choose--
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No. So they are interrelated.
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And they said
many times and I think,
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I particularly
remembered Hillary Clinton
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speaking at our Liberty dinner
just before you came I think
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but she said,
you can pretty much
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tell the state of
human rights in a country
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by have a treat
religious liberty.
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It was a litmus test.
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Well, because it is
central to all other freedom
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and so it is a
primordial freedom,
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it is central to
all other freedom.
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It is connected to all
of them and the reason being
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religious liberty is connect
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as I mention earlier
to freedom of conscience.
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It is the freedom to profess,
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to practice and to
propagate one's faith.
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You know, without being
coarse or force not to do so.
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And it's a freedom
to change your religion.
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Of course, that too.
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You know, you
mentioning the United Nations,
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what about this
Universal Declaration
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of Human Rights?
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Well, Article 18 is very
explicit precisely that--
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If it is just
tell out these things.
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Yes, express out
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and including the one
that you have just mentioned
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which is a
difficult one for many nations
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who had not really
embraced that part meaning,
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the freedom to
change one's religion.
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But actually if you don't have
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the freedom to
change your religion
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that means you won't
have the freedom of choice.
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You see again, you
don't follow your conscience.
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So this is why the same way
that people say human rights
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are interrelated,
interdependent and indivisible.
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I can say the same thing as
far as fundamental freedoms.
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They are interrelated,
interdependent and indivisible.
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Freedom of conscience
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is connected to
religious freedom,
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is connected to
freedom of thought,
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it is connected to freedom
of propagating on one's faith,
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it is connecting therefore
to freedom of expression.
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Again this is why freedom,
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religious
freedom is so important.
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Now as I mentioned
earlier it is important
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because if I deprive you,
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I mean, I may allow you to vote,
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I may allow you to,
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I mean, so to speak of
course to do many things
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but if you do not have
freedom of religion or belief
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because it is also the freedom
to not believe, you know.
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Yes, and that's
the important element
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that many people forget.
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Absolutely.
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Even an atheist or an
agnostic is exercising
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their religion freedom.
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This is a freedom for all
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so they call it
religious freedom
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because, you know, I mean
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historically it
started like that
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but actually right now at the UN
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and we will come
back to the UN issue.
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It is labeled as
freedom of religion or belief
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because and that
means non-belief also.
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Now may be this is
the good time to interject
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for our viewers.
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You just
recently been made elected
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director for public
affairs and religious liberty
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but in the years before
that you were functioning
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as liaison at
the United Nations.
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Yes.
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So you know that
aspect very, very well I know.
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Yes. Yeah.
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Now may be let me
just-- may be we can come back
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to the religious
freedom issue later
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but it's important to realize
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as far as the Seventh-day
Adventist church is concerned
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it is not just now that the
Seventh-day Adventist Church
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has a official
liaison or an ambassador
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to the United
Nations and people ask why.
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If you go to the
Adventist constitution
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and specifically
the working policy
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the mandate is
written, this is vote,
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a voted document known.
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It is available on
the web and so forth
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whereby the Adventist
church says very clearly
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that the PARL department,
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the department of Public Affairs
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and Religious Liberty
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has to make connection
with government that's clear,
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so political entities--
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Apostle Paul said, that that was
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an imperative for
Christian witness.
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Absolutely.
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Speaking before
kings and authorities.
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Absolutely.
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And this is one of the
most neglected field of mission
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by the way, but--
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so the
Seventh-day Adventist church
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is intentional
about connecting to,
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I mean,
connected with government
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with international organizations
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and actually in
the working policy
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it is very clearly stated
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that United Nations
in particular the ECOSOC,
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Economic and Social Council--
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Yes, you got the
social status. Yes.
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Acronyms, ECOSOC means
Economic and Social Council.
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Yes and
cultural-- this is the entity
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that actually
basically monitored
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and served the
world in terms off--
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And we are there
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as a
non-governmental organization.
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Non-governmental
organization. Or an NGO.
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NGO. Again acronym.
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Exactly.
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But this is not something that,
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you know, some of us
would be passioned about--
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no, no, it's a
mandate from the church.
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But why is that so?
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Again you have to understand
what the UN is fundamentally.
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I am not talking
about conspiracy theories
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and so forth.
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People say so
many things against.
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Now, of course there is
no perfect human organization
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on earth, not one, okay.
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So that's one thing.
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Second we could not-- we
would not expect every person
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in every organization to be
morally or to have an agenda
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that is confirm to
the kingdom of God.
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But when you look at the
United Nations fundamentally
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you have three pillars.
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Now you have to remember
this organization was formally,
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you know, organized
right after World War II.
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When you think about
it-- Well, you are right.
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It shows its ancestry
that goes after World War I
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with league of nations.
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Correct.
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And that were designed
to after huge human problems
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bringing the nations together
to talk rather than to fight.
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Absolutely.
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And why was that
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but in particular I am
referring here to the UN,
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and think about
December 10, 1948
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right after the two world wars,
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so people had a decision
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whether to continue to wage wars
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or to built in peace.
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Isn't there that the
statue out front of the UN,
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I still remember with the--
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it says that they
should-- from Ezekiel isn't it,
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"They shall take their
swords into plowshares."
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Absolutely, but so whatever--
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So it had-- my point
is there was really almost
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a biblical awareness at
the moment of founding that.
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I would not say that
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they were driven by
the Bible or something.
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No, no, no, but an awareness
that's what I am saying.
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Yes.
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It was resonating with
them what the Bible said
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and it was such
a shock for the--
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that we need to go back to--
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The desire for piece.
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The desire for
piece I think defiantly
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and you are right, is
part of the human fabric.
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Of course, whatever is
good I believe would resonate
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with biblical ideals anyway
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but I think it is
really important to realize
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after this two
world wars and occupation
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and we are taking
about millions people
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killed in Europe.
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Sixty million. A
whole generation.
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Some even push this
to 100 million, you know,
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it was just
madness, pure madness.
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How could people continue
to kill themselves like that?
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Anyway the League
of the Nations decided
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let's now built piece
instead of waging wars
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and the UN pillars,
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the foundation that's sustained.
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Now we are not taking
about the perfect human beings
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and all those things.
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No, only God is, right.
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But we are taking
about the people deciding--
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these are the three pillars
we would like to develop.
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The first pillar of UN is
actually peace and security,
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first pillar.
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Second pillar, they
realize there will be no peace
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or security without justice.
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So the second pillar is justice
and of course development.
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And then the third
pillar, now we are taking about
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the desire's of the
nation what they want.
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It doesn't mean
that they succeed
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they have succeeded
and so but this is decide
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the foundational
principle what they want,
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decent security,
justice and development
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and finally human rights.
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And human rights particularly
three things now, of course
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people have lofty goals
but it doesn't mean that,
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you know,
practically it has been realized
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but this third
pillar in particular
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can be divided into
three, individual liberty,
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again the idea for
liberty, personal equality
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and then life and dignity.
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Now I think you would
agree with me a big part of
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or big part of the
dynamic of United Nations
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exemplifying these principles
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was the role of
the United States
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and it is not a
material of the United Nations
00:11:46.74\00:11:48.70
is in the United States.
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I think, you know,
in a significant way
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the US was able to project
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its liberal values
into this new organization.
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Well, I would say--
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Well, I am
saying that for a reason
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because many of our
viewers that I have contact with
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and as I travel and I
think you pick this up too.
00:12:04.02\00:12:06.96
They have this deep
suspicion about the very nature
00:12:06.99\00:12:09.86
of the United Nations.
00:12:09.89\00:12:11.23
They think it something
antithetical to the principles
00:12:11.26\00:12:14.80
in a liberal democracy
00:12:14.83\00:12:16.30
but it actually
derived from thinking
00:12:16.33\00:12:18.67
of the liberal
democratic principles.
00:12:18.70\00:12:20.57
But I would
hesitate though personally
00:12:20.60\00:12:23.27
to limit the authorship
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or the creation
of this organization
00:12:27.14\00:12:29.01
to the US because many--
00:12:29.04\00:12:30.95
Well the US played the
leading role, obviously
00:12:30.98\00:12:33.08
as it did with
the League of Nations.
00:12:33.11\00:12:34.48
Well, I mean, of course we have
Mrs. Roosevelt, I mean, Eleanor
00:12:34.52\00:12:39.99
and so forth yes, but this
was an international coalition
00:12:40.02\00:12:43.56
and I think we should be careful
00:12:43.59\00:12:45.83
not to give all
credits to America.
00:12:45.86\00:12:47.20
Well, I know why
you've caused this
00:12:47.23\00:12:48.56
because we don't want
to project it is only--
00:12:48.60\00:12:50.10
Yes, an American,
no, absolutely not.
00:12:50.13\00:12:52.87
Let's take a break.
00:12:52.90\00:12:54.24
We will back with
this continuing this
00:12:54.27\00:12:55.84
very interesting discursion
with Dr. Ganoune Diop.
00:12:55.87\00:12:58.47
Stay with us.
00:12:58.51\00:12:59.84