Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), John Nay
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000297B
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00:06 Welcome back to 'The Liberty Insider,'
00:07 before the break with guest Ambassador John Nay, 00:11 we've gone through a little bit of your career 00:13 and philosophy as an ambassador 00:15 and we'd ended up on the environment 00:17 which while there were threats there, 00:19 it was actually very pleasant in Suriname. 00:24 But you said that you made that somewhat of a focus 00:28 or a theme of your tenure there. 00:31 I did. 00:32 You know, ambassadors are able to chose the art 00:36 that goes on the walls in the ambassadorial residence 00:39 and in the public areas 00:40 where you'll be having receptions. 00:42 And so for example, my academy art teacher 00:47 who's now have been teaching art 00:49 at Union College James McClelland. 00:52 We were lucky enough to have 00:54 and he was kind enough 00:56 to loan us two of his paintings. 00:58 We had those on the walls 01:00 and we had others by one of the art teachers 01:04 at Andrews University and a number of others. 01:08 And again, they would often 01:10 would wind up being something of a focus of conversation 01:13 when we were having receptions. 01:14 Now you were telling me what I always understood 01:17 that an ambassador's residence in many ways 01:22 is sort of a little island 01:25 in another place of his own country, 01:26 right, to represent them? 01:28 In a sense, yeah. It would be. 01:30 But I can remember years ago going to an ambassador 01:35 to the Vatican residence. 01:39 And I was startled. 01:41 Everything in the house was to do with the Vatican City. 01:46 I don't think it was forbidden but it was interesting. 01:50 That it turned the things on their side 01:52 because a few others that I've gone to. 01:54 Yeah, they are little island in this case of America. 01:59 I was trying to highlight Michigan artists, 02:01 from Michigan and yeah, very much so. 02:05 I definitely saw myself as a representative 02:08 of the United States and was trying to do 02:11 what I could to represent the U.S. well. 02:14 Yeah, now I'm sure very responsible relationship. 02:18 And I'm sure very rewarding too. 02:20 I'm originally an Australian 02:22 and in a little, little way I understand that 02:25 and in fact, I tried to relate 02:27 that to the Christians role in the world. 02:30 You know, as an Australian, no matter how long 02:32 I stay my accent betrays me 02:34 and people make judgments on my country 02:36 no matter how I behave 02:37 and what I tell them about the country. 02:39 So I'm sort of projecting 02:41 that as Christians our home is heaven 02:44 but that doesn't let us off the hook. 02:46 We have to really let people around us know 02:51 what the citizen of heaven is like 02:53 and how good a citizen of any country that'd be. 02:56 Yeah, well, I mean, the term ambassador 02:58 is actually used in the Bible. 03:00 Yeah, I had forgotten that. Yes. 03:02 You know, when my father died about eight years ago, 03:06 after a very short illness and he actually died 03:09 after final surgery. 03:11 As they wheeled him away to the surgery 03:12 they not even been told a couple of minutes earlier 03:14 that he had to have, we knew this was the end of it. 03:19 But he said to the, he says. 03:21 "Do you know I'm an ambassador? 03:23 He looked at him. 03:25 You know, what he's talking about. 03:26 He says, "I am an ambassador for heaven." 03:27 Okay. 03:29 So that they brought him to me 03:31 that this relationship as a Christian 03:33 and how we represent another world. 03:36 But yeah, they said the environment 03:39 you really saw as an issue. 03:45 Well, when you presenting America it's just a sign that 03:48 this is a responsible nation on the environment. 03:50 It's a common concern of all human kind. 03:53 Exactly and this is something we care about. 03:56 Something that we hope other countries 03:57 will care about and without overdoing it, 04:03 without getting into a bullying mode or anything. 04:05 But simply please keep these concerns in mind 04:08 because they are part of you preserving the beauty 04:13 and resources of your own country. 04:17 So-- 04:19 Do you see well, in a way I know the answer to it, 04:25 on the environment there is potential 04:27 for disagreement among nations obviously? 04:29 Of course. 04:31 And so how do you think both as citizens 04:34 and in your case you are representative 04:36 of the government of a particular country 04:39 but as citizens and Christians 04:41 how can we influence mankind to take this seriously 04:44 because I do see it as a matter of stewardship 04:47 of creatures of a Creator God. 04:49 He made this for us as not just a matter of, 04:53 you know, making life better for us here. 04:55 It's got a moral component. 04:56 We owe it to the Creator to minimize pollution 05:03 and some of it comes with just living. 05:05 I would say we owe it to our fellowmen also. 05:07 Right. 05:09 Well, as far as how do you influence, 05:10 I mean, by example is probably the best way 05:15 and of course our example hasn't always been good. 05:18 When we speak to some countries like Brazil and Suriname, 05:22 we can make our best case and they always listened 05:26 I always felt like the Suriname officials listened. 05:30 On the other hand, Brazil 05:33 and some of the other countries will point out that 05:35 our own history isn't exactly perfect on these issues. 05:39 We had forests that covered America 05:42 and they mostly, mostly got cut down. 05:45 It's always been an amazement to me, 05:47 how quickly that was done. 05:48 Yes. 05:50 And even in Australia which is as big as the U.S. 05:51 with only 25 million people today. 05:53 This is just huge, of countryside 05:56 that has been transformed. 05:57 That must've been done within a generation. 05:59 Within a few generations anyway 06:01 and so we have to be a little bit mindful 06:04 that we can make our best case 06:07 and other countries may well, say, 06:09 "But we want to develop 06:12 and make life better for our people." 06:15 So they aren't always going to agree 06:17 and at some point we have to respect their choice. 06:21 And I'm sure that the, not the ambassadors 06:24 but the U.S. Military are thinking about this too 06:27 and I read many articles where they realized 06:29 that famines and other natural calamities 06:33 have military implications for conflict 06:36 and I think the environment 06:38 is bringing us to a flash point between different countries 06:43 and aims and the disruptions that are causing so. 06:46 Well, I mean you look-- 06:48 You look how instability within the country. 06:49 Not just against another country. 06:50 Exactly. 06:52 I mean, you can get civil disorder 06:53 when people are starving you can expect that 06:56 they are going to search for a place 06:58 that they can go to that's better. 07:00 You will wind up with refugee flows 07:02 and it has all sorts of implications. 07:05 Now as a Christian, as a Seventh Day Adventist, 07:07 I felt that while the church needs 07:09 to avoid getting into a social gospel 07:12 that substitutes for spirituality 07:14 and in the case of our church 07:17 preparing for the Lord's soon return. 07:19 But I think that we need to embrace 07:21 as an imperative concern for the environment 07:25 just as certain things like the anti-abortion and so on. 07:28 We know why that sort of out of kilter 07:30 perhaps in the U.S. 07:31 But it's still something that should have 07:33 a moral resonance with any follower of the Bible 07:36 and the environment I think, on an individual basis 07:40 or perhaps even as the church entity, 07:42 I think we should speak more strongly 07:44 to this as the Catholic churches done. 07:46 And you know, there're certain things going on there. 07:48 There's a Protestant perhaps not comfortable with. 07:51 But it's not a bad cause to espouse. 07:53 I completely agree. 07:55 I think that, in fact, 07:57 when you used the term social gospel, 07:59 there have been times 08:00 when I've talked to fellow Christians 08:03 and made the case that 08:06 we should be doing more for the poor and every now 08:11 and then unfortunately you'll wind up having 08:13 people be a bit dismissive. 08:15 "Oh, that's the social gospel. We don't do that." 08:18 And you know, it doesn't do much good 08:23 to preach to people if they're hungry. 08:26 And when you look at the kind of good 08:29 that the Salvation Army has done over the years 08:32 and when you go to a Salvation Army 08:35 soup kitchen and volunteer 08:37 and see the people who are getting help there, 08:40 I think it's something where we need 08:42 to keep it very much in mind and that is not to say that 08:45 the Adventist Church doesn't do a lot because it does. 08:49 But I do think it makes me uncomfortable 08:52 when people are dismissive of the term social gospel 08:54 because it sometimes seems like they're making an excuse. 08:59 Yeah, now I think we're in agreement. 09:02 I think it's a matter of balance 09:05 even bit of emphasis. 09:07 That's not why we are here as Christians 09:10 just to fix this world here. 09:12 But as Christians we should be concerned 09:14 to fix whatever we can 09:16 on our way to the heavenly kingdom. 09:19 And I'm certain that the things like 09:21 maybe the environment in particular is going to be 09:24 the central point in the years ahead 09:27 and we can't afford to be 09:28 left out of this discussion or this concern. 09:31 Well, and economically it's got, 09:33 it has huge implications for us too. 09:36 I mean, everything from people's health to-- 09:41 Even survival. 09:42 I can remember as a young kid being 09:47 amazed to read that in Japan at that point 09:49 'cause it was rapidly industrialized. 09:51 People can buy a sniff of oxygen on street machine, 09:54 wending machines. 09:56 That's moved to china now. Yes. 09:58 It so immediately hazardous 10:01 to people's lives in these bigger cities 10:03 that they have to have a little uptake 10:05 of real oxygen just to make it through. 10:07 So we're on the edge. 10:09 The environment is just slowly destroying 10:11 what we have. 10:12 It's imminent threat to life in them. 10:14 In some places it certainly is. 10:15 And back to the Seventh-Day Adventist system 10:19 of reaching out to other people unless there's a clear mind 10:23 people can't understand spiritual things. 10:25 I agree. 10:27 So, yeah, I think your environmental 10:31 concern was well placed. 10:34 As both as a representative of the country 10:36 and as a Seventh-Day Adventist Christian. 10:38 Okay. 10:40 So what was your take away though for Suriname 10:42 and the environment and what you are putting 10:45 into this as a responsible steward? 10:49 Well, it was a great opportunity, 10:52 it was a great job and it was a wonderful chance 10:56 to get to know a very diverse community in a country 11:01 that maybe many of us don't know 11:02 but which I think has examples that they can show us. 11:08 So I look forward to going back and seeing them again. 11:14 When you look at recent history 11:15 there are not many examples of leaders 11:19 who put their ambitions aside and stepped aside. 11:26 I remember Nelson Mandela 11:28 who was actually been a revolutionary 11:30 in his pre-imprisonment days 11:32 but after serving only a short time stepped aside 11:36 for the good of his country. 11:38 Of course in the United States 11:39 that's still quite a memory of George Washington, 11:42 the father of the Nation, 11:45 saying farewell to the presidency 11:47 and going back to his farm. 11:49 These examples I think will give a little window 11:53 into the mind set of some one who is not a ruler to rule 11:56 but a leader to lead 11:58 because of an inner moral compass. 12:02 The Christian serving the state, the civil interest, 12:07 I think is a stronger ruler, a stronger steward 12:10 because of this moral compass 12:13 and I do believe that in our world, 12:15 we need more people who can walk away 12:18 if need be, if there's a moral conflict 12:20 within office can exemplify moral power. 12:26 For Liberty Insider this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2015-09-10