Welcome back to
'The Liberty Insider,'
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before the break with
guest Ambassador John Nay,
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we've gone through a
little bit of your career
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and philosophy as an ambassador
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and we'd ended up
on the environment
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which while there
were threats there,
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it was actually very
pleasant in Suriname.
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But you said that you
made that somewhat of a focus
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or a theme of your tenure there.
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I did.
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You know, ambassadors
are able to chose the art
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that goes on the walls in
the ambassadorial residence
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and in the public areas
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where you'll be
having receptions.
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And so for example,
my academy art teacher
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who's now have been teaching art
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at Union College
James McClelland.
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We were lucky enough to have
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and he was kind enough
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to loan us two of his paintings.
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We had those on the walls
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and we had others by
one of the art teachers
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at Andrews University
and a number of others.
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And again, they would often
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would wind up being something
of a focus of conversation
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when we were having receptions.
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Now you were telling me
what I always understood
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that an ambassador's
residence in many ways
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is sort of a little island
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in another place
of his own country,
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right, to represent them?
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In a sense, yeah. It would be.
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But I can remember years
ago going to an ambassador
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to the Vatican residence.
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And I was startled.
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Everything in the house was
to do with the Vatican City.
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I don't think it was forbidden
but it was interesting.
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That it turned the
things on their side
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because a few
others that I've gone to.
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Yeah, they are little
island in this case of America.
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I was trying to
highlight Michigan artists,
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from Michigan and
yeah, very much so.
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I definitely saw
myself as a representative
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of the United
States and was trying to do
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what I could to
represent the U.S. well.
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Yeah, now I'm sure very
responsible relationship.
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And I'm sure very rewarding too.
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I'm originally an Australian
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and in a little,
little way I understand that
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and in fact, I tried to relate
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that to the
Christians role in the world.
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You know, as an
Australian, no matter how long
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I stay my accent betrays me
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and people make
judgments on my country
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no matter how I behave
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and what I tell
them about the country.
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So I'm sort of projecting
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that as
Christians our home is heaven
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but that doesn't
let us off the hook.
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We have to really
let people around us know
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what the citizen
of heaven is like
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and how good a citizen
of any country that'd be.
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Yeah, well, I
mean, the term ambassador
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is actually used in the Bible.
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Yeah, I had forgotten that. Yes.
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You know, when my father
died about eight years ago,
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after a very short
illness and he actually died
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after final surgery.
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As they wheeled
him away to the surgery
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they not even been told
a couple of minutes earlier
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that he had to have, we
knew this was the end of it.
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But he said to the, he says.
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"Do you know I'm an ambassador?
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He looked at him.
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You know, what
he's talking about.
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He says, "I am an
ambassador for heaven."
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Okay.
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So that they brought him to me
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that this
relationship as a Christian
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and how we
represent another world.
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But yeah, they
said the environment
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you really saw as an issue.
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Well, when you presenting
America it's just a sign that
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this is a responsible
nation on the environment.
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It's a common
concern of all human kind.
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Exactly and this is
something we care about.
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Something that we
hope other countries
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will care about and
without overdoing it,
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without getting into a
bullying mode or anything.
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But simply please
keep these concerns in mind
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because they are part of
you preserving the beauty
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and resources of
your own country.
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So--
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Do you see well, in a
way I know the answer to it,
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on the
environment there is potential
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for disagreement
among nations obviously?
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Of course.
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And so how do you
think both as citizens
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and in your case
you are representative
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of the government
of a particular country
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but as citizens and Christians
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how can we influence
mankind to take this seriously
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because I do see it as
a matter of stewardship
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of creatures of a Creator God.
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He made this for us
as not just a matter of,
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you know, making
life better for us here.
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It's got a moral component.
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We owe it to the
Creator to minimize pollution
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and some of it
comes with just living.
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I would say we owe it
to our fellowmen also.
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Right.
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Well, as far as
how do you influence,
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I mean, by example
is probably the best way
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and of course our
example hasn't always been good.
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When we speak to some countries
like Brazil and Suriname,
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we can make our best
case and they always listened
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I always felt like the
Suriname officials listened.
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On the other hand, Brazil
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and some of the other
countries will point out that
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our own history isn't
exactly perfect on these issues.
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We had forests
that covered America
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and they mostly,
mostly got cut down.
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It's always been
an amazement to me,
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how quickly that was done.
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Yes.
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And even in Australia
which is as big as the U.S.
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with only 25
million people today.
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This is just
huge, of countryside
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that has been transformed.
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That must've been
done within a generation.
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Within a few generations anyway
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and so we have to
be a little bit mindful
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that we can make our best case
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and other
countries may well, say,
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"But we want to develop
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and make life
better for our people."
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So they aren't
always going to agree
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and at some point we
have to respect their choice.
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And I'm sure that
the, not the ambassadors
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but the U.S. Military
are thinking about this too
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and I read many
articles where they realized
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that famines and
other natural calamities
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have military
implications for conflict
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and I think the environment
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is bringing us to a flash point
between different countries
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and aims and the
disruptions that are causing so.
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Well, I mean you look--
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You look how
instability within the country.
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Not just
against another country.
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Exactly.
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I mean, you can
get civil disorder
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when people are
starving you can expect that
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they are going to
search for a place
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that they can go
to that's better.
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You will wind up
with refugee flows
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and it has all
sorts of implications.
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Now as a Christian, as
a Seventh Day Adventist,
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I felt that
while the church needs
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to avoid getting
into a social gospel
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that
substitutes for spirituality
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and in the case of our church
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preparing for the
Lord's soon return.
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But I think that
we need to embrace
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as an imperative
concern for the environment
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just as certain things like
the anti-abortion and so on.
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We know why that
sort of out of kilter
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perhaps in the U.S.
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But it's still
something that should have
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a moral resonance with
any follower of the Bible
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and the environment I
think, on an individual basis
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or perhaps even
as the church entity,
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I think we should
speak more strongly
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to this as the
Catholic churches done.
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And you know, there're
certain things going on there.
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There's a Protestant
perhaps not comfortable with.
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But it's not a
bad cause to espouse.
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I completely agree.
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I think that, in fact,
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when you used the
term social gospel,
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there have been times
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when I've talked
to fellow Christians
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and made the case that
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we should be doing more
for the poor and every now
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and then unfortunately
you'll wind up having
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people be a bit dismissive.
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"Oh, that's the social
gospel. We don't do that."
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And you know, it
doesn't do much good
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to preach to
people if they're hungry.
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And when you look
at the kind of good
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that the Salvation
Army has done over the years
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and when you go
to a Salvation Army
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soup kitchen and volunteer
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and see the people who
are getting help there,
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I think it's
something where we need
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to keep it very much in
mind and that is not to say that
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the Adventist Church doesn't
do a lot because it does.
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But I do think it
makes me uncomfortable
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when people are dismissive
of the term social gospel
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because it sometimes seems
like they're making an excuse.
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Yeah, now I think
we're in agreement.
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I think it's a matter of balance
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even bit of emphasis.
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That's not why we
are here as Christians
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just to fix this world here.
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But as Christians
we should be concerned
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to fix whatever we can
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on our way to
the heavenly kingdom.
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And I'm certain
that the things like
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maybe the environment in
particular is going to be
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the central point
in the years ahead
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and we can't afford to be
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left out of this
discussion or this concern.
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Well, and economically it's got,
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it has huge
implications for us too.
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I mean, everything
from people's health to--
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Even survival.
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I can remember
as a young kid being
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amazed to read that
in Japan at that point
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'cause it was
rapidly industrialized.
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People can buy a sniff
of oxygen on street machine,
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wending machines.
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That's moved to china now. Yes.
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It so immediately hazardous
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to people's lives
in these bigger cities
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that they have to
have a little uptake
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of real oxygen
just to make it through.
00:10:05.37\00:10:07.80
So we're on the edge.
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The environment is
just slowly destroying
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what we have.
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It's imminent
threat to life in them.
00:10:12.47\00:10:14.48
In some places it certainly is.
00:10:14.51\00:10:15.84
And back to the
Seventh-Day Adventist system
00:10:15.88\00:10:19.71
of reaching out to other people
unless there's a clear mind
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people can't
understand spiritual things.
00:10:23.55\00:10:25.92
I agree.
00:10:25.95\00:10:27.29
So, yeah, I think
your environmental
00:10:27.32\00:10:30.99
concern was well placed.
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As both as a
representative of the country
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and as a
Seventh-Day Adventist Christian.
00:10:36.67\00:10:38.67
Okay.
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So what was your take
away though for Suriname
00:10:40.34\00:10:42.37
and the environment
and what you are putting
00:10:42.40\00:10:45.17
into this as a
responsible steward?
00:10:45.21\00:10:49.94
Well, it was a
great opportunity,
00:10:49.98\00:10:52.71
it was a great job and
it was a wonderful chance
00:10:52.75\00:10:56.65
to get to know a very
diverse community in a country
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that maybe many of us don't know
00:11:01.26\00:11:02.92
but which I think has
examples that they can show us.
00:11:02.96\00:11:08.86
So I look forward to going
back and seeing them again.
00:11:08.90\00:11:14.24
When you look at recent history
00:11:14.27\00:11:15.84
there are not many
examples of leaders
00:11:15.87\00:11:19.57
who put their ambitions
aside and stepped aside.
00:11:19.61\00:11:25.98
I remember Nelson Mandela
00:11:26.01\00:11:28.38
who was actually
been a revolutionary
00:11:28.42\00:11:30.45
in his pre-imprisonment days
00:11:30.49\00:11:32.92
but after serving only
a short time stepped aside
00:11:32.95\00:11:36.59
for the good of his country.
00:11:36.62\00:11:38.29
Of course in the United States
00:11:38.33\00:11:39.69
that's still quite a
memory of George Washington,
00:11:39.73\00:11:42.80
the father of the Nation,
00:11:42.83\00:11:45.17
saying farewell
to the presidency
00:11:45.20\00:11:47.34
and going back to his farm.
00:11:47.37\00:11:49.60
These examples I think
will give a little window
00:11:49.64\00:11:53.07
into the mind set of some
one who is not a ruler to rule
00:11:53.11\00:11:56.44
but a leader to lead
00:11:56.48\00:11:58.55
because of an
inner moral compass.
00:11:58.58\00:12:02.22
The Christian serving the
state, the civil interest,
00:12:02.25\00:12:07.02
I think is a stronger
ruler, a stronger steward
00:12:07.06\00:12:10.69
because of this moral compass
00:12:10.73\00:12:13.06
and I do believe
that in our world,
00:12:13.09\00:12:15.06
we need more
people who can walk away
00:12:15.10\00:12:18.27
if need be, if
there's a moral conflict
00:12:18.30\00:12:20.90
within office can
exemplify moral power.
00:12:20.94\00:12:26.31
For Liberty Insider
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:12:26.34\00:12:30.15