Welcome to 'The
Liberty Insider.'
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This is the program
that brings you up-to-date
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news, views,
discussions, insight
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and an analysis of
Religious Liberty events
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that you probably
won't get anywhere else.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
editor of Liberty Magazine
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and my guest on the
program is Ambassador John Nay.
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And that's really
opens up a lot of discussion
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just to talk
about your background.
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Your last
position, your retired now.
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But your last position
was US Ambassador in Suriname,
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almost like
Shangri-La for most people.
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They wouldn't
even know where it is.
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Where is Suriname?
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It is on the north
shoulder of South America.
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And it was the former
colony of Dutch Guiana.
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Received its
independence in 1975
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and it was a wonderful job,
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very enjoyable
country, wonderful people.
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Now there's like,
what's the country next door?
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Is that--
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Directly east of
it is French Guiana.
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Directly west of it is Guiana
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which used to be British Guiana.
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And then on the other
side of Guiana is Venezuela.
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And I brought
that up for a reason
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when you talk
about religious issues
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and one of the
most aberrant cases.
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Remember the Jonestown? Yes.
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There it was probably
not too many hundred miles
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from where you were
based there in Guiana.
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Yeah, I never made it
over there to Jonestown but.
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Well, probably not good for--
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'Cause I thought
this was quite some time
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before you were there.
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Yes.
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But I remember U.S. congressman
made the mistake of going
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and shaking on them.
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When I think
about your experience
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and you've told me a
little bit privately,
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you know, I can't
help thinking about
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some of the Biblical figures
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that has distinguished
themselves in government,
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you know, Seventh-Day Adventist
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from a prophetic view point.
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I think can
study a lot on Daniel.
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But we sometimes
don't really think
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what his
government service meant.
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That was a
position of trust. Yes.
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Through the
different administrations
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so even though he
didn't move around much
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in essence he was the foreign
service there, wasn't he?
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Representing of
morality and honesty
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because of his position.
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Did you find any
tension between your faith
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as a Seventh-Day
Adventist Christian
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and what you
were called upon to do
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in representing your country?
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Not much really
and there are people
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from every background
in the foreign service.
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There are many
other devout Christians.
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There is a regular
weekly prayer breakfast
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by some of them in
the State Department
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and so no I would say
that you walk the line
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because of course you're
working for the government
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and you're not out
there to be spreading
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the gospel actively on
behalf of the government.
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But it was a great
job, a great career.
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I really enjoyed it.
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Yeah, now maybe I think
we can delve into a little
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if not your career then
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than what in the
course of that career
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what you saw in
different parts of the world.
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It does seem to me that
no so much diplomatic service
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but public government service
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has certain risks like
at the moment in the U.S.
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There's a lot of
furor and discussion about
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those you want to be president
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or in the sort of a
pre-condition it'll get.
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The disease will
become more advanced yet.
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And there's even a
Seventh-Day Adventist
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running for the top
office and I feel badly for him
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because I think
hurly-burly of parties
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and political campaigning
there's always the risk
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that someone will compromise
their personal morality
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and perhaps even compromise
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or disgrace the faith
that they identify with.
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I see that is very dangerous.
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But I do believe
that career politicians
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are in a different moral level.
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You know, I think there are,
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highly ethical
career politicians
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and the there are
people who are non-politicians
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who also are highly
ethical and then of course
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some on both side who are not.
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So I probably
wouldn't characterize
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politician or not as
inherently unethical or--
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No but it's more dangerous.
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I think it's
inherently more dangerous
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than an appointee or
some one that's in the,
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with the bureaucracy
itself rather than running
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for the rough and
tumble of the election process.
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I think has become so rough.
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And one of the terrific things
is of course is fund raising.
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And there is no question that
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for those who are
having to raise funds,
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they are going to wind
up having to give access
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to those who have
donated to their campaigns.
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There was a wonderful statement
that our viewers might know
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who it was about
but I want to mention
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but national
politicians raising funds
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in front of wealthy people.
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He says, you know, here he says,
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"I'm happy to be here
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in front of my
natural constituency,
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the haves and have mores."
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Yes.
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And you know, he
was free to say that
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but apart from anything else
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on a Christian level of morality
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I can't imagine a
responsible Christian
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normally saying that.
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That's just sort
of stepping outside
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what I would be
comfortable with.
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I think you want to
have an approach of being,
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having a lot of
concern for the have not
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or the have less people, so--
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Now I mentioned
Guiana that was next door
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to where you were in Suriname
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and that was a
Religious Liberty situation.
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Those people
supposedly went willingly
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but in the name of religion
to either kill themselves
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or allow
themselves to be terminated
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in the name of religion.
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That's a pretty amazing thing.
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How did you find though
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'cause that was an
imported situation,
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how did you find
the religious community
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and the mix of religious
sensibilities in Guiana?
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Well, of course I was
in Suriname next door.
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Sorry, in Suriname.
That was my mistake.
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Suriname was actually
very diverse society amazingly
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so, both
ethnically and religiously.
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It has 15 to 20% of
its population is Muslims
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and that is percentage
wise the highest level
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of any country in
the western hemisphere.
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You have another 20
to 25% who were Hindu,
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about 25% Catholic,
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about 20 some percent Protestant
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and then a number
of other smaller faiths
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including a very long
standing Jewish community.
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And remarkably they
get along very well.
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There is religious freedom
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and ethnically
the various groups,
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they do often tend to
vote for various parties,
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political parties
somewhat based on ethnicity.
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But I was very impressed.
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People actually
get along very well.
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Yeah, in advance of this program
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I looked up Suriname
even though I said Guiana.
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I looked up and I saw
that instantly that this was
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very diverse population
and it was almost like
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everybody came
from somewhere else
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and brought their religion
and their ethnicity with them.
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Yes.
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That must have been
a sort of a test case,
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you know, unusual
situation to observe that.
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Well, it was and that
was one of the aspects
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of Suriname that I as I was
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asking to be
considered for that position.
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I had noted that there were
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all of these
different communities
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and that I have served in Africa
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and there was a very
large Afro-Surinamese community.
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I served in South East Asia
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and there was a
Javanese community.
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I served in India
and there's a large
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Indo-Suriname community.
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There's a growing
Chinese community.
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And so I had made a
pitch that I would like to be
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considered for the
job based partly on that
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and it worked.
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Well, let me
really cut to the chase.
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What were the
beaches like in Suriname?
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Actually you know,
actually Suriname doesn't have
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much in the way of beaches.
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But it's pretty close
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to a tropical
paradise, isn't it?
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Um, you know, first off,
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it is east of
the Caribbean islands
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and so along the shore
it's mostly mangrove swamps
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and the water out
in the ocean there
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is mostly brown
due to the Amazon
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having flown out
into the Atlantic
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and then the
currents curling it back up.
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Yeah, I wouldn't have thought
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but it would have
to go back to Guiana.
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So you don't actually
go to the beach too much.
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Now we love going out
there to watch dolphins,
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to watch the birds.
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It is completely tropical.
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I spent a good deal of
time in the Amazon rainforests
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and tried to promote
the idea of protecting
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the environment,
protecting the rainforests.
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but no beaches actually no.
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I would say that the
total time I spent on a beach
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was maybe 15
minutes once, you know.
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Yeah, well, at least I tried.
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I tried to characterize
your posting as a big holiday
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but no I'm sure that was
a lot of responsible work.
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You mentioned the environment
and you know this discussion
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can go in many
different directions.
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But at the moment
environmental concerns
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are just worrying everybody.
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I noticed that 2015
was the warmest year
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on record ever of course
that in a way that doesn't prove
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that it is because it's
only I think in the best part
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of the last 100 years that
paid any real attention to it.
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But certainly in our lifetimes
it's never been so warm.
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So some thing is happening.
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You made a focus on
that probably through dealing
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with the degradation
of rainforests and so on.
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There were several
things I was concerned about.
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And again, Suriname,
most of the population lives
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along the Atlantic coast.
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And once you go
inland you can go
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in the tropical
rainforests for many miles
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or if you fly over it it's
just a beautiful green carpet
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and so I had, I was really happy
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to get the opportunity
to go into the interior,
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climb a mountain with the head
of Conservation International
00:11:00.89\00:11:05.39
that there was no record of it
00:11:05.43\00:11:06.76
ever having been climbed before.
00:11:06.80\00:11:09.80
But the environment of Suriname
00:11:09.83\00:11:12.13
is being damaged partly
by gold mining that is not,
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it's not even large
company gold mining.
00:11:19.21\00:11:21.44
It's the small scale
miners that have float in
00:11:21.48\00:11:25.65
and are just going in
and using some of them
00:11:25.68\00:11:29.65
19th century methods
of hosing away hills and--
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I know this is a
huge problem in Brazil.
00:11:35.16\00:11:37.39
And exactly and many of
the miners are Brazilians
00:11:37.43\00:11:40.06
who have come over the border
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using mercury to
separate gold from the ore.
00:11:41.86\00:11:44.37
And that gets into the rivers.
00:11:44.40\00:11:46.74
What I'm fishing for
is you had that concern
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as a
representative of a government
00:11:50.74\00:11:52.54
to another government.
00:11:52.57\00:11:54.54
It must be
concerning the governments
00:11:54.58\00:11:56.21
but as a Christian and
as a Seventh-Day Adventist,
00:11:56.24\00:11:58.88
it seems to me as integral
to what our concern should be
00:11:58.91\00:12:01.78
because the First Angels message
00:12:01.82\00:12:04.12
is tied up for the
concern for the environment
00:12:04.15\00:12:06.35
or the Creator
of the environment.
00:12:06.39\00:12:08.66
And also Paul says, you know,
00:12:08.69\00:12:10.53
God's coming to destroy
those who destroy the earth.
00:12:10.56\00:12:12.86
So it's integrally part of our
psyche as Christians I think.
00:12:12.89\00:12:17.17
I tried my best
to make it something
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of a theme of my
three years there
00:12:19.33\00:12:21.50
of protecting the environment
00:12:21.54\00:12:25.31
including we
bicycled across the country.
00:12:25.34\00:12:30.21
Promoting the
idea that being out
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and bicycling was
more environmentally
00:12:33.31\00:12:35.52
responsible than driving.
00:12:35.55\00:12:38.35
The, much higher mileage.
00:12:38.39\00:12:41.36
Yes, and so over
the course of four rides
00:12:41.39\00:12:46.29
we bicycled all the way
across plus into the interiors
00:12:46.33\00:12:49.50
as far as the roads go.
00:12:49.53\00:12:51.03
Drew attention with TV
crews to the illegal mining
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that was going
on the national park
00:12:57.37\00:12:59.84
and it really, even the
art on the walls of our house,
00:12:59.87\00:13:07.18
we have chosen
environmental theme
00:13:07.22\00:13:09.68
trying to choose as
many Michigan artists
00:13:09.72\00:13:13.09
or artists who had a connection
00:13:13.12\00:13:15.82
to Michigan and
Christians as possible.
00:13:15.86\00:13:21.73
It's obvious as an ambassador
00:13:21.76\00:13:23.53
you can make a
statement that work, right?
00:13:23.57\00:13:24.90
You can.
00:13:24.93\00:13:26.27
We better take a break
now but please come back
00:13:26.30\00:13:28.37
after the break to
continue this discussion
00:13:28.40\00:13:31.01
with Ambassador Nay
00:13:31.04\00:13:32.57
and we're talking
about the environment.
00:13:32.61\00:13:34.14
Stay with us.
00:13:34.18\00:13:35.64