Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Dr. John Graz
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000296B
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00:05 Welcome back to "The Liberty Insider."
00:07 Before the break 00:09 I was grilling Dr. John Graz about his early life 00:13 and you know, from my side, thinking about this 00:17 and remembering my father, 00:19 I know he did many things in his life 00:22 started off in publishing ended in- 00:24 and you shifted ending up in Religious Liberty. 00:27 But I know my father was inspired 00:29 through it all by the text from Peter. 00:32 I think it's 2 Peter, 00:34 "Casting all your cares upon Him, 00:35 for he cares upon you, cares for you." 00:38 You know, what's inspired you? 00:40 You mentioned that you were studying the Bible 00:42 as a young man and that moved you into faith. 00:45 Had there been any thoughts 00:47 or Bible texts that have really been 00:49 your guiding light? 00:50 As I said you know, when I became an Adventist 00:54 or a Christian really, the text that you know, 00:57 "Seek first the kingdom of God" 00:59 was very impressive for me and I took that really. 01:04 And but after when I became 01:06 an Adventist and that changed my life. 01:08 I had to face many challenges, you know, to study again 01:11 and so on and so on. 01:13 And normally I should have said that's not possible. 01:15 But another text came to my mind 01:17 was the word of Jesus, 01:19 "Everything is possible for the one, 01:21 for he who believes, everything is possible." 01:25 And I said, "with God everything is possible." 01:27 It means it was like an explosion in my life. 01:31 I had a lot of limitations in my mind. 01:33 You know, many, most of the time, 01:35 the limitations are not physical limitations 01:38 but it's in your mind. 01:40 I thought that I will never able to study 01:43 after the secondary school. 01:45 I thought many things like that. 01:47 I thought that I will never, 01:48 never be able to go to the university. 01:51 Never be able to speak in public 01:54 and to speak another language and so on and so on. 01:57 But you know, the moment 01:58 the way I became Christian, if Jesus in my life, 02:03 everything became possible and I said, 02:05 "With God everything is possible." 02:07 Then after when I had all these challenges 02:11 and I see all of these challenges 02:13 and how God helped me. 02:16 And another verse, that was in 2006, 02:19 I remember well, 02:20 after ten years at the General Conference 02:22 as a director of Religious Freedom, 02:25 I thought that I was re-elected 02:27 and I thought that you know, I have to do something new 02:30 because you know, I don't want just to 02:33 do a regular thing that we have to continue 02:36 the regular thing like the congresses, 02:38 the simple doing... 02:40 but there is something else to do 02:41 and I dreamt about this big, 02:43 you know, festival of Religious Freedom. 02:45 It means big celebration but how to do that. 02:49 how to do that? 02:51 And you know, at this time 02:52 a verse in the Bible, a verse came to me to my mind, 02:56 that was in Deuteronomy, yeah, I read and read again, 03:00 "The Lord will make you the head and not the tail." 03:03 And I think that could be also for my ministry 03:06 not for me personally but for my ministry. 03:08 Well, Adventist pioneer, Ellen White, 03:10 applied that to the Adventist movement, didn't she? 03:13 We ought to be the head and not the tail. 03:15 Yeah, exactly. 03:16 Exactly that applies to Religious Liberty. 03:18 Yeah, this is what I thought 03:19 you know, it has to be applied to every ministry, 03:22 every school, every institution, 03:23 everything which gives to God as you know, as an offering. 03:28 And I said to God, "That's not my problem 03:32 how many people will come, I know that you can do that." 03:35 And I saw the answer, you know, 03:38 that a lot, that's a really miracle 03:40 at the very time, you know, 03:42 someone where in this department 03:44 for a short period of time. 03:47 But the guy who was there, he was able to put 03:50 15,000 people in a stadium at the beginning. 03:53 And it shows to the other 03:56 but 20 people outside, it shows to the other 04:00 that we can do that. 04:01 And after we had a peak with 40, 50,000 people. 04:05 And where was the first program again? 04:06 The first mass festival was in Sao Paulo. 04:09 Yeah, I knew it was in Latin America. 04:10 And Williams Costa, you know, was the organizer. 04:13 And that was fabulous and afterwards in Lima, 04:15 fabulous program, 45,000 people. 04:18 And from the beginning the plan involved 04:20 young people and music, didn't it? 04:22 Young people and music and so on and that was, 04:25 you know, I thought it will happen in 2009 04:27 and it was in 2006. 04:30 It means that when you really 04:33 want to dedicate your life to God, 04:35 don't think that it's not possible. 04:37 Everything is possible for God and God will do it. 04:41 It means you have to say to the Lord, 04:43 "I am here, I do my best but you will do the rest." 04:49 And the last verse, you know, 04:51 because after when things are going well, 04:53 you may forget that you are just... 04:54 You think you are doing it. 04:56 Well, Peter found that out, didn't he? 04:59 Stepped out to meet the Lord on the water 05:01 and then, oh, down you go. 05:02 But in my case, which was interesting 05:05 is that big things were not organized by me. 05:08 It was, I just, you know, brought the seeds 05:11 and people say, "Uh, we can do that." 05:14 But that's more vindicating of our shared goal 05:17 of Seventh Day Adventist that shows that there are 05:19 others who were willing to do this too 05:20 and together right things happen. 05:22 And that was really, you know, 05:24 people realize that that's a good idea 05:26 like the festival of Religious Freedom. 05:28 You know, the idea is to say, thank you God, publicly 05:32 and thank you to my country for Religious freedom 05:35 and the message is 05:36 "we love Religious Freedom and we want to keep it." 05:38 You know people can get that and say, 05:40 "We can do that." 05:41 You have to find but everywhere you have people 05:43 that are able to do that. 05:45 And it's not necessary, this is a rhetorical question, 05:48 that the country that you're doing it 05:50 in is circumspect in every regard 05:53 on Religious Liberty 05:55 because you are granting them the benefit of the doubt. 05:56 Exactly. 05:58 That this is the country, that is in their interest. 05:59 You don't say that they are perfect. 06:01 But you say, 06:02 "Hey, religious freedom is important for us, 06:04 we may not have the total." 06:05 And thank you for what you've done to facilitate that. 06:07 But still thank you because you know, 06:10 we have meeting, we have church, 06:12 we have hospital, we have institution and so on, 06:15 thank you for that. 06:16 There are so many places around the world 06:18 where people cannot have. 06:19 And the last one was, be humble yourself, 06:24 humble yourself on the mighty hand of God 06:27 and I like it very much because it said, the text said, 06:30 "He may you know, rise up in the due time." 06:37 I don't know what you've learned 06:38 but I've learned that life tends to be humbling anyway. 06:41 Better to give it to God and recognize 06:44 that you have to be humble before him 06:45 than to find out the hard way 06:48 before life, it beats you down. 06:49 Absolutely true. 06:51 This is why, you know, 06:52 sometime when something good happened, 06:54 well, you can say, "Oh, I did very well." 06:56 Very often just after something comes and hits. 06:59 What is that, "Pride goes before the fall?" 07:02 But I know you've done some wonderful things 07:05 you've been the lead person 07:07 to facilitate some very inspiring things 07:10 on Religious Liberty 07:11 and that might be forgotten easily, 07:13 more than forgotten, that won't be let go of. 07:15 Others are going to follow through 07:17 and carry this on and... 07:18 We have already planned for the future 07:20 and I hope that... 07:22 And you'll be there in some of them. I'm sure. 07:23 You're not going to be, they are not taking away 07:26 your frequent flying experience. 07:29 We have a World Congress, we have a World Festival 07:32 and now we are trying to develop 07:34 Continental congresses and Continental festivals. 07:37 And where is the next World Congress? 07:38 That's down in US I think. 07:40 It will be in US, it will be in 2017 07:44 and next World Festival, we are talking about 07:48 maybe in the US or maybe in Peru again, 07:50 in Lima and some places 07:52 where we can bring people really. 07:54 In Peru, you can get the huge crowd there. 07:58 Almost every year we will have an international, 08:00 a big international event. 08:02 It means that you maintain or you develop the, what is it? 08:06 Infrastructure. 08:08 The infrastructure you develop, 08:09 people are able to promote Religious Freedom, 08:12 the awareness of the authorities, 08:14 of the government and after, of course what is happening now 08:18 it's, you know, people ask us to do 08:19 more and more things. 08:21 Even government ask us. 08:22 Even organization, powerful organization ask us 08:25 to be a part of their programs and we have more and more... 08:30 I mean, this aspect of it is a very positive PR aspect. 08:34 I can't imagine any public entity 08:37 or a government being opposed to it. 08:39 They just need to see the model 08:41 and then they'll want it, like you're finding out. 08:42 Yes and sometimes, you know, people don't see, 08:44 "Yeah, you know, you organize a big meeting 08:46 but doesn't help really those who are persecuted." 08:49 Yes, because it opens many doors. 08:53 You know, when you have to deal with a government, 08:56 if you know people from another country, it helps. 08:59 They can introduce you. Absolutely. 09:01 And when you have people visiting the countries, 09:04 from government where you have Christians persecuted, 09:07 all the believers persecuted and you want to deal with that. 09:11 You can be invited and talk... 09:15 I just you know, was invited for a meeting 09:19 with Prime Minister for a country 09:21 where people are really under a lot of restriction. 09:27 It could be an opportunity to talk with him 09:29 and to defend Religious Freedom. 09:31 And do you know the line of causality, 09:33 what made him aware of Religious Liberty 09:37 and the need to talk to you? 09:38 Do you know? Who the- 09:40 The invitation from the Prime Minister? 09:43 Yeah, yeah, of course I know, you know, it's very easy. 09:46 It comes from a friend who is impressed, 09:48 who has been impressed by our work. 09:50 Seeing one of these conferences? 09:52 Yeah, exactly, and it's happened like that. 09:55 You invite people to speak, they say that, 09:58 "Man, that's incredible. 10:00 I would like you to come to come to our own congress." 10:03 Then you meet official there. They introduce you. 10:06 Networking. That's the networking. 10:07 That is, in our work, 10:10 the Ministry of Religious Freedom, 10:12 the networks is really the key. 10:15 You need a large network of friends. 10:17 This is what our President, Ted Wilson, 10:20 always said you know, he said, we have to, 10:23 we need to have a good network of friends. 10:25 Make friends. 10:27 And he's been very supportive 10:28 for the Religious Liberty program, I know. 10:29 He has been very supportive-- 10:31 It's not so much to diminish any other President, 10:32 but there's no question that in his last five years, 10:36 Ted had been very close to get identified 10:37 with Religious Freedom. 10:39 Yeah, exactly and also, 10:40 he is the one who encouraged 10:41 our new program on church ambassador, 10:43 you know, this program say that in every church 10:46 you need to have an ambassador 10:47 to represent the church in the community. 10:49 And I should get an ad in for Liberty Magazine 10:52 like in our current issue 10:54 or the upcoming issue in July 2015. 10:57 There's an interview that you conducted with Ted Wilson, 11:00 where he lays out his strategic vision 11:02 for Religious Liberty. 11:04 So you know, I think it's great. Wonderful. 11:07 Great interview, yes, as a President, 11:10 he said to- I don't frankly speaking 11:13 I don't remember having heard another religious leader, 11:16 top religious leader speaking like him 11:19 about Religious Freedom. 11:20 Yeah, that's good and we hope 11:22 that it continues, pray that it continues. 11:23 Yeah, pray. 11:24 So that could be your farewell gift 11:27 to have one last indoctrination session 11:31 with our church leader. 11:32 But I'm sure that this is going to continue. 11:35 There are just so many imperatives to that, 11:39 no leader, no church can ignore this anymore. 11:41 As we said in another program, 11:43 Religious Liberty in the negative 11:45 is seen by an unprecedented persecution of Christians 11:48 and others minorities around the world. 11:51 Yeah, and you know, 11:52 what I would say Lincoln is... 11:54 It has been a great adventure we've got 11:57 and defending Religious Freedom for me. 11:59 It's a really a ministry and I am serving, 12:02 I am serving God in doing it. 12:05 Listening to Dr. John Graz 12:07 give some reminiscences of his service 12:10 for the church and for Religious Liberty 12:13 and thinking of what that really means 12:15 for those of us that remain behind, 12:17 I can't help but thinking 12:19 in the Bible of the story of Elijah, 12:22 preparing on instructions, I'm sure to meet the Lord 12:27 and go to heaven and his disciple, Elisha, 12:31 saying, "You don't leave now, 12:32 I'm not going to let you out of my sight." 12:35 We need to realize that there's a continuum in service 12:39 and that the Elijahs might 12:41 move on to another phase of work 12:43 but there are Elishas that remain behind 12:47 and with this great cloud of witnesses 12:49 as the Bible says, those that have gone before us, 12:51 we need to realize that the challenge remains 12:54 and that Religious Liberty 12:56 is such an important component of the gospel commission 13:00 that many others would be following in, behind Dr. Graz 13:05 and that the great work will be done 13:07 and the challenging times now up and standing, 13:09 a great message and a proclamation 13:11 for Religious Liberty will be given. 13:15 For Liberty Insider, I'm Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2015-08-20