Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000292B
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00:02 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider
00:04 before the break with guest Dr. John Graz. 00:08 He was growing very enthusiastic about 00:10 the role of the IRLA in the world 00:12 because with reason, 00:14 fabulous things have been happening, many things. 00:17 But you know, the question could be asked 00:20 isn't that enough for IRLA 00:21 to just have the meeting of experts 00:23 or you could do the other. 00:25 Isn't that enough just to have some rallies? 00:27 Is there a reason for these, 00:29 the spread of activities that you have. 00:31 How do you see them fitting into a master plan? 00:33 Yeah, that's a good question but you know, first 00:36 what I thought these, when you have an event 00:39 and event is the best way to mobilize people. 00:43 You know, there are many places around the world 00:45 where if you have nothing, 00:46 nothing is interested, no one is interested. 00:50 And as we went to our religious freedom 00:52 partners in every country around the world. 00:55 If they have nothing to do where they will not exist, 00:58 you know, they will disappear. 01:00 It means, when you have an event, 01:01 you mobilize people. 01:03 You mobilize a lot of people around the event. 01:06 You give them a job to do then also the second thing, 01:10 they make religious freedom visible 01:13 because they will talk about that. 01:15 They will learn and so about that and-- 01:18 Which is very important because people, 01:20 you know, as I said before on this program, 01:22 nobody's against religious liberty. 01:24 But everybody, oh, not everybody 01:25 but many, many people have many divergent views on this 01:29 and the role of IRLA as I see it, 01:32 either at the public rallies for many people, 01:35 all the experts for some selected academics 01:38 is to define it on our terms. explain religious liberty. 01:41 You know, we published a journal 01:42 with the result of our work-- 01:44 Fides et Libertas. 01:45 Fides et Libertas, 01:47 the result of the meeting of expert 01:49 and the symposium and so on. 01:51 It mean there is also a scholar 01:53 and academic branch but you know, 01:56 first you know, you mobilize people. 01:58 Secondly, you meet officials 02:01 because when you organize an event you invite official. 02:04 And of course the officials are interested. 02:06 Certainly they are interested in religious freedom. 02:08 They are interested about their church who represent. 02:11 They are impressed because you don't come alone 02:13 but you say that we are all group of people 02:16 from different churches 02:19 or different way of thinking and so on. 02:23 It means that's not just one group 02:25 but we represent a group of believer or unbeliever, 02:30 who believe in religious freedom. 02:32 And they come most of the time, 02:33 they are happy to attend the meeting 02:36 and coming to the meeting 02:38 they think about religious freedom. 02:40 Then they became your friend 02:42 when it comes to religious freedom. 02:44 This is why you know in Brazil, Sao Paulo, 02:46 where we had so many meetings. 02:48 Now, we have a commission on religious freedom 02:51 and soon probably we will have 02:54 a state commission of religious freedom. 02:56 And when the state commission of Sao Paulo 02:58 about religious freedom will be done probably, 03:01 our people will be among the leaders, 03:04 but probably one day the government of Brazil 03:06 will decide that they should also have 03:09 a national commission on religious freedom. 03:12 Then when they have a national commission 03:14 of religious freedom, 03:15 Brazil, you know, at the international level 03:19 will speak about religious freedom. 03:21 You know, in South America very often now you know, 03:25 I'm pushing when I visit South America 03:27 and meet the government people 03:29 you know in Chile I met vice president of the senate, 03:34 the vice president of the congress. 03:36 The minister of justice in Sao Paulo. 03:39 I said to them, you know, Brazil 03:41 should become the voice of religion. 03:43 One of the voice. 03:44 Well, I'd love to hear that-- 03:45 that appeals international sensibility of course. 03:47 Yeah, and after I said the same in Chile and in Peru, 03:50 why you know, you have an international influence 03:54 you can have-- you can talk about 03:56 religious freedom as a country. 03:58 Instead to say nothing 04:00 when you have a big discussion at the United Nation 04:02 become the voice of religious freedom. 04:06 Tell me something that I've thought about 04:08 before and now and then not particularly with IRLA. 04:13 I've seen an issue how IRLA is designed 04:18 to project the certain viewpoint 04:20 on religious liberty that 04:22 the Seventh-day Adventist church 04:23 developed from its own history and for biblical principles. 04:27 But when you bring so many people together, 04:29 how do you monitor or direct their participation 04:34 to reflect that viewpoint? 04:36 Yeah, that's a good question. 04:37 Because this-- it could be seen 04:40 sometimes that you give a forum 04:41 to someone with divergent views from-- 04:44 You know, have to be flexible of course 04:47 but you have also-- you have also 04:49 to study carefully what you think about. 04:53 Because you know very often our understanding 04:55 of religious freedom is very basic 04:58 you know, religious freedom, this is religious freedom, 05:00 and which is interesting. 05:02 The Adventists are probably the best in the world 05:05 and the Adventist church 05:06 is a number one church in the world 05:08 in term of promotion of religious freedom. 05:11 But in term of academic work on religious freedom, 05:15 in term of thinking about 05:17 religious freedom, deep thinking. 05:19 We are not at the level of the other, 05:22 you know, the Catholics, 05:23 especially the Catholic have fabulous expert 05:26 on the field of religious freedom. 05:28 It means we have a lot of work 05:30 and this is why the next step 05:31 will be to have in our universities, 05:34 institute of religious freedom, 05:36 because as you said, you know, if you are not also-- 05:40 If you don't have a very strong roots about 05:43 what you believe about religious freedom, 05:46 you may follow another way which is not really the same. 05:50 Or make a forum for another way-- 05:52 Exactly. 05:53 In intended directions. 05:54 And this is what it has been one of my, 05:58 not my concern but one of my priority 06:01 is to provide excellent Adventist scholars, 06:06 but still you don't have a lot of people 06:07 in our church studying religious freedom 06:10 at the level of the others. 06:11 I mean we have still a lot of work to do 06:14 but should not lose these-- 06:15 Well, I've even discovered 06:17 and this is a little ironic side thing 06:19 that our institutional memory of-- 06:22 of the past, in particular with Liberty Magazine 06:24 and its precursor A.T Jones not so clear. 06:28 And we need a continuing academic 06:31 interest to formulas in to present these views. 06:34 Exactly. To keep them alive. 06:36 Because you know, there is some differences 06:39 as I say we all for religious freedom 06:41 but you know, even about churches, 06:43 you know, the Catholic Church has a tradition, 06:45 you know, no if I've done for the error, 06:47 but that was not just the Catholic Church. 06:49 You know, you can-- you can see that 06:51 in almost all churches in the 16th, 17th century. 06:55 Then after you know, now the question is, 06:58 I remember talking we have a priest in Bucharest 07:01 and he almost gave me a lesson you know. 07:04 He said but be careful religious freedom. 07:07 The theological root of religious freedom 07:11 is you have freedom to find the truths, 07:15 that is the reason why God gave us 07:17 the freedom to find the truth. 07:19 For us it's a little different then we have to-- 07:21 So is he saying that if you use that freedom 07:23 and you find what he thinks is error, 07:25 you've misused the freedom, right? 07:27 Yeah. 07:28 You know, for me but I think that 07:30 we should really study carefully 07:32 but according to the Protestant and Adventist tradition. 07:36 You have the freedom because God created you 07:38 as a human being. 07:41 He gave us a dignity and among the dignity 07:45 path of the dignity is the freedom to choose. 07:47 And the right to be wrong. 07:49 And the right to be wrong. 07:50 You know, it makes a difference. 07:52 It means, we have to go deep to be sure that 07:56 we don't make confusion because as you said 07:59 from something which is not correct, 08:01 you can evolve to something 08:04 which has nothing to do with religious freedom. 08:07 People defend human rights. 08:09 Religious freedom is a heart of human right, 08:12 but people are persecuting some religion 08:15 on behalf of human rights. 08:17 That's a contradiction. 08:18 But they don't see a contradiction. 08:20 So we need to-- 08:21 Again, as we said before this is a crying need 08:24 to really correctly describe religious liberty. 08:28 We have a great advantage 08:30 and you see it traveling worldwide. 08:33 Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think 08:34 you've ever come across anyone that 08:36 speaks against religious liberty. 08:38 They just defined it in some times 08:41 very troublesome ways. 08:42 And so we can come in, you've got their attention 08:45 but then our definition can move them-- 08:47 I remember also talking with a friend you know, 08:51 and he said no, no, we are not against religious freedom. 08:55 We are in favor of religious freedom 08:58 but your interpretation of religious freedom 09:00 is not exactly the right one. 09:03 Our interpretation is good and our interpretation is, 09:08 you know, you should really limit freedom for crazy people. 09:11 We should not give, if they're wrong, 09:13 don't give them the freedom to be wrong. 09:15 You remember the trip that I went with you to Laos. 09:19 We spoke with the minister of religion and he claimed that 09:21 they allowed freedom of religion 09:23 but he says we will not allow naughty activities. 09:26 He used the word naughty and which in his case 09:29 was giving out Christian literature 09:31 that was not acceptable. 09:33 And you know, I was in a country 09:35 I visited for the first time and I remember, 09:38 I had a meeting with several evangelicals 09:42 to interest them in our association 09:45 and they were very supportive of religious freedom. 09:49 Then after they ask me, 09:51 do you have in your association people 09:54 being member of this religion. 09:56 I said yes, you know, as long as 09:58 they defend religious freedom for all. 10:00 And they say, sorry we believe 10:03 in religious freedom but we cannot be 10:05 associate with an association-- 10:07 That has them-- 10:08 That defend the right of other people. 10:11 At least they were honest to say it. 10:13 But often people won't front up. 10:15 And you remember in East Timor, 10:18 you remember when we talk-- 10:20 To the president. 10:21 No, no, we talk about the lady 10:23 who presented the Christian from an island 10:25 and she said you know, 10:27 before these island were catholic, 10:29 now they're all evangelical they said, 10:32 Pentecostal, I don't know, 10:34 but you know she said that something happened, 10:36 a missionary came from another church 10:39 and he try to open new church there. 10:41 We should do something. 10:43 Yeah, yeah, use religious freedom 10:45 to restrict the access. 10:47 And I know down in South Pacific 10:50 where I originally came from that used to be the pattern. 10:53 The Church of England would take these sort of-- 10:57 these islands and they were-- 10:58 they had a fence around them basically. 11:00 No other missionary could go there. 11:01 Adventist had this island and so on. 11:05 That's a very limited way of looking 11:06 at religious activity and I don't think 11:08 in the modern world that's got much-- 11:10 No, that's not possible. 11:11 That's not possible and I think in the modern world 11:14 we understand that really one of the best way 11:17 for people to live in peace together is to say, 11:21 is not to say you don't have the right 11:23 to have another religion, 11:25 is it just to say you have a right 11:27 because this right has been given by God to you, 11:30 protected by your constitution and your country. 11:33 And this is the best way to live together. 11:36 Yeah, believe in religious freedom 11:38 not because you-- 11:39 you know, I believe in religious freedom 11:40 because I think really 11:42 when I believe in religious freedom. 11:43 When I defend religious freedom I follow, 11:46 I follow Jesus who is my model. 11:51 IRLA there's an acronym for you, 11:55 but in actuality it's more than 11:56 just random letters of the alphabet 11:59 as the Seventh-day Adventist churches carry forward 12:02 the International Religious Liberty Association. 12:05 This is proved to be a powerful tool 12:08 for informing civil authorities and professionals 12:14 and lay people all around the world 12:17 for many years about the value of religious liberty. 12:21 I remember attending one of the IRLA events 12:24 in the Dominican Republic and it was inspiring 12:27 to sit among hundreds of people there 12:30 for all around the world dedicated to the principles 12:33 that IRLA exemplifies. 12:35 Was inspiring to hear representatives 12:38 from different nations get up 12:39 and recite their commitment to freedom 12:42 that had been brought into that reality 12:45 by the communion with the IRLA. 12:48 And I know that Dr. John Graz 12:49 has given powerful leadership for the 20 years 12:52 that he's been associated with it. 12:54 And I know that with the Lord's blessing 12:57 and continued leadership, 12:59 it will vindicate our charter from the Lord 13:03 to proclaim liberty throughout the land. 13:07 And that means is everyone should understand 13:10 not just your fellow church members, 13:12 not just your fellow citizens but everybody on this globe. 13:17 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2015-07-30