Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Tim Roosenburg
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000290B
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00:06 Welcome back to the Liberty Inside.
00:07 Before the break, we were dealing 00:10 with some interesting dynamics on disputes. 00:14 One that's also involved even my own church, 00:17 it's a matter of authority. 00:19 And I remember reading, in our own church history 00:24 in one occasion Australia was-- 00:25 Ellen White, one of our pioneers 00:28 and a woman that I think, receive some communications 00:33 from a divine nature which helped her discern 00:36 in the situation and she made a comment 00:39 when there was a hotly contested election 00:41 for a president of the work in Australia and she said, 00:44 neither one of them is appropriate, 00:45 they're both unfit. 00:47 But she says, well, at least we'll get the, 00:50 you know, the best of the worst of the bad thing. 00:53 And I think she said that 00:54 because it was just personalities appliance, 00:57 she was never comfortable with that. 00:59 People both striving for power. 01:00 Yeah. 01:02 And the term that she used and I think it's valid, 01:04 she railed against kingly power. 01:06 And power corrupts and-- 01:08 And the attorney general under George Bush, 01:13 now I forgot his name. 01:14 You know, he was a Christian and a song writer 01:17 and he did a song, "No King but Jesus." 01:19 Ashcroft? 01:20 Ashcroft, Attorney General Ashcroft. 01:22 No King but Jesus. 01:24 And yeah that's the way we should think, 01:27 and I had a discussion with one of that church leaders 01:29 recently about something very serious going on 01:32 in the church and I said, this is 01:34 the most important thing, and he says 01:36 oh, no, Jesus is the most important thing. 01:38 Well, I disputed him on the dynamic of the occasion, 01:42 but that really should be-- 01:43 Yeah. You've said it nicely. 01:45 You know, we did we Christ scented people. 01:48 You know, it doesn't say in the Bible, 01:50 the Spirit of Christ constraints me. 01:53 We should model-- 01:55 there was a quarterly that our church came out 01:57 with some years ago, Jesus the model Man. 01:59 People reacted against it like it was a poison 02:02 and it was the very epitome of what the gospel's bring. 02:05 He just was able to give us an example not in-- 02:09 thus say, in every regard but you know, 02:11 in some ways we can never be like Him. 02:12 He was born in that holy thing and so on. 02:14 But He was modeling, for us, 02:17 the way, heaven would have us there. 02:18 With the more I look at Jesus, the more I realize, 02:20 how far for, how far-- should I go with that? 02:22 Well, that's a natural consequence of that. 02:24 Keeps you humble. Yeah. 02:26 Not on the way, we didn't know our strengths 02:28 as well as weaknesses. 02:30 But when you have a high reference point 02:32 you can't sort of rest on the laurels 02:33 and say, you know, look at me. 02:35 Look at each other and we can do that, 02:36 but not when we look at Him. 02:38 You may compare it by comparison. 02:39 Yeah. 02:40 You know, I'm humble than looking at most people. 02:44 Certainly it's certain there, and you on His love, 02:47 you got the field almost to yourself 02:49 in interpreting Daniel 11 and-- 02:53 Well, now I say it to myself that anyway. 02:55 No, I mean, you're, you're leading a pack. 02:58 All these are their opinions. 02:59 Yes, that's what I'm telling-- 03:00 Can I have a few too? 03:02 But it's going to be exciting to see, as history unfolds 03:05 and God's will is revealed in our day. 03:07 Just-- 03:08 I would tell people that all the time. 03:09 How prescient this really was? 03:11 We'll find out soon enough if my opinions are on track. 03:14 Yeah. 03:15 Well, it's more than your opinion 03:16 I know you've studied this deeply. 03:18 My interpretations. 03:20 But this matter of authority, 03:21 I think, is really where it's gonna come down to. 03:26 And I was telling you 03:27 not long ago about the Bible event. 03:30 Its fine to even say, I rest on the Bible only, 03:34 this is you know the final authority for me. 03:36 But you really need to think that through, 03:38 because there is even a line of argument. 03:40 I've seen on Roman Catholic websites 03:42 saying that since the-- 03:44 this is their claim which isn't as simple as they say, 03:48 since it was Roman Catholic church councils 03:50 that established some of the collections 03:52 that lead to the present day Bible 03:55 and that these councils relied on the churches authority 03:57 that therefore their authority lies behind this. 04:01 I think that's horrible. 04:03 If this material in it came from heaven, 04:06 they would just handmade it 04:08 if you feel like to pass this on. 04:10 It doesn't stay or fold on any church body's authority. 04:15 It's kind of like saying, 04:16 whoever hands it went through, it's theirs. 04:18 No, it's, who started it. Yeah, right. 04:21 And that's, it's not the church that is my authority. 04:24 It's the one who originated it. 04:26 Absolutely, but we do need to have some confidence 04:30 on this and you know, I've-- 04:32 we've zigzagging around this topic 04:35 but I really believe that all Christians 04:37 and as a Seventh-day Adventist, 04:38 particularly Seventh-day Adventist Christians, 04:40 really need to examine this book. 04:43 What is it? Its fine, it looks all in one binding. 04:46 Where did it come from? 04:48 It's over a span of about 3,000 years. 04:54 These books were gathered, they had poetry, some prophecy, 04:57 some just books of history, it's an interesting mix. 05:01 But even the history's about how God is working. 05:03 Oh, no, there's a reason for it. 05:05 But does everyone know the reason that's mine point. 05:07 But one of the interesting things about Bible 05:09 is the Bible characters. 05:12 It shows the good and the bad. 05:14 Right. 05:15 It's not like the legends and something there, 05:17 it's all just the good stuff for-- 05:19 Well, no, yeah. 05:24 I've studied the origins of it and I've been fascinated by it. 05:27 I do believe it's slit by most people. 05:31 They don't even realize the different versions. 05:33 This is an essence to Protestant Bible. 05:35 There's the Roman Catholic, the Jews version. 05:37 Why are there those books there? 05:41 We shouldn't be troubled by it, but we should be aware of it. 05:45 At the end of the day, if there is a challenge 05:47 to your faith and you know it deeply 05:49 and you got a strong relationship to God 05:52 and you're about to account, I think God will-- 05:54 as He said, promises give you the words to speak. 05:57 You're not without recourse, 05:59 but just as a matter of intellectual openness, 06:04 I think it makes perfect sense, 06:06 especially if you listen to this program, 06:08 if you know, there's a reason why you should find out more, 06:11 investigate a little bit. 06:12 Don't you think? 06:14 And you know, I always-- 06:15 But, you don't read it for yourself, 06:17 how do you know, you're being told the truth? 06:18 Right, and in our own church, I'll say this freely 06:22 because I think it needs to be counteractive. 06:24 There were some people, 06:26 who read a book that one of our houses published, called 06:31 "The Clear Word Bible" originally, 06:33 it was never really a Bible, but it was marketed, 06:37 unfortunately in that form and they showed that 06:40 they didn't know the real Bible, 06:42 by using it in a lazy fashion because it was 06:45 personal narrative by a wonderful-- 06:47 Paraphrase? Godly man. 06:48 Well, it wasn't a paraphrase, it was worse than a paraphrase. 06:51 In a structural sense, it was just, 06:55 a parallel narrative from the Bible, 06:58 throwing in research information, 07:02 Ellen White comments and so on, 07:04 in a very loose thing and there was no great area 07:08 that I could ever see, that wasn't the point. 07:10 But for someone that didn't know the Bible, 07:13 it was a horrible substitute and laughable for someone 07:16 who knew the Bible. 07:17 You know, what you got this for? 07:19 And so they did it to themselves at the service 07:21 and it gave unfortunate cause for people outside 07:25 the church to say, oh, you've your own Bible. 07:27 All we had was a bad publishing policy 07:29 and lazy people that hadn't read the Bible, 07:32 we're depending on it. 07:33 We should be students of the Bible. 07:35 Was that the Bereans? Yes. 07:36 Studied, were commended by Paul of that day. 07:39 They search that truth. 07:40 They ask questions and we're commended for it. 07:42 Yes. 07:43 So yeah, the questioning itself is not a bad thing. 07:46 I think God encourages that. Yeah. 07:48 And even if you're questioning, send you on a bit of a zigzag, 07:53 I don't think God holds you culpable, 07:54 if you're honest person reaching toward God. 07:57 It's a double-edge sword. 07:59 He'll--well, not a sword, but double-edged aspect, 08:02 He credits your intention 08:04 and He will guide your direction, ultimately to 08:07 what He wants you to know, anyhow. 08:09 Yes, He promises to do that, John 16, 08:11 the Holy Spirit would be sent to lead 08:13 and guide us in all truth, when we were ready, 08:15 which means if we're not ready, He won't do it. 08:17 So it comes back to where I started. 08:19 Authority, this is an authoritative book, 08:22 you treat it as that. 08:24 Behind it lies not just the experience of the people 08:27 reading about it, but God himself. 08:29 But when we drift toward looking the church leaders 08:33 or the claims of church leaders that some super authority, 08:37 it's bad and to connect you to Islam 08:40 that's where I think there's some problems. 08:42 They've got the Quran, which-- 08:44 yes, they've revered in a way physically 08:46 that few Christians do with the Bible, 08:48 but really, if the mullah says-- 08:51 here and he quotes the Quran a bit loosely, 08:53 then I'll run with it. 08:54 They've given way too much authority 08:56 to the religious authorities 08:58 and not even to their own holy book 09:01 which is a human tendency, as I've said, 09:03 Christians can do it too. 09:05 But I think in any conflict, which we expect 09:08 at the end of time, 09:09 these prophecies you're looking at sure 09:11 we'll have to account for ourselves. 09:13 And they'll say, as they did 09:15 to Peter and John in the temple. 09:16 On what authority do you say these things? 09:20 It's nice to have a proof text, 09:21 but I think it's a bit more than that. 09:23 There has to be some back up on this, or else-- 09:28 Miss the whole character of God. 09:29 The non-believer-- I've been following 09:33 Christopher Hitchens, final debate. 09:34 He was a skeptic journalist who died of cancer, 09:38 not too many years ago. 09:40 And you know, he used to make mincemeat of people of faith 09:43 who really didn't know this stuff. 09:46 And that will happen from the seculars, they know-- 09:49 he knew his Bible very well, quoted too. 09:52 Outside we will comment you like that, other 09:56 whether it's a Muslim authority or the Catholic Church, 09:59 if they were you, question you, they have their own idea 10:01 of authority and they'll bounce that against you. 10:04 Who are you to question us? 10:06 And if you don't have some experience, 10:08 you'll never be ready for it. 10:10 So we're back to another program, we'd say, 10:12 how do we involve people in religious liberty? 10:13 They get involved. 10:15 Have some experience. Yes. 10:16 Talk to some public officials and I'm sure 10:19 you're encouraging people in your seminars, 10:21 go out and share this and-- 10:22 Oh, I definitely. Talk to people. 10:26 So now when you-- 10:27 I know when you speak, you have authority, 10:29 because you feel compelled on this 10:31 and you're reaching the God's word. 10:33 But I certainly wish you the best, I know this is 10:38 probably our last program of the sequence 10:40 that you and I are doing together. 10:42 But give a final word to our viewers on, 10:47 where you want them to go in their Bible study, 10:50 finding the truth that you found. 10:52 I just want to let you know 10:54 that Jesus promised in John 14, that not-- 10:58 let not your heart be troubled. 11:00 He's coming again, He's got a place prepared for us. 11:03 And so when you look at the world 11:04 and its coming apart as it seems, don't be troubled, 11:07 look at Gods word, focus in on what does the Bible say. 11:11 And to me Daniel 11 is been very powerful. 11:14 It shows the world in conflict. 11:15 Islam and Christianity in conflict and people 11:19 led Christianity, radical Islam is about to go down, 11:23 modern Islam are about to follow 11:25 the King of the North, people led Christianity. 11:27 The pope becomes in charge, he then persecutes God's people 11:31 of faith that were caught in the middle 11:33 and God rescues His people in the middle. 11:36 That's what I'm finding in the prophecy. 11:38 You may or may not see the same thing, 11:40 I challenge you to look and follow where God leads, 11:43 but definitely ask for the leading 11:44 of the Holy Spirit, because He can 11:46 and will guide you into all truth. 11:49 Authority, it's what Jesus had when He stood 11:52 on the small mountain, I'm sure, but on the mountain 11:55 and spoke to the crowd 11:57 outlining the principles of His kingdom. 11:59 When He had finished, it says in the gospel that 12:02 the people heard Him gladly, 12:05 because He spoke with authority. 12:08 A little later, after Jesus said, 12:11 gone through His passion and gone back to heaven, 12:15 those disciples who'd been pretty fearful 12:18 before hand were able to powerfully witness 12:21 with authority and Peter and John there 12:24 before the negative leaders of the temple were asked, 12:29 by what authority do you do these things? 12:31 And they said, 12:32 "By the authority of Jesus, Him, you crucified." 12:37 We do need to recognize that authority is an 12:39 important aspect of religion and how we project it 12:44 and how we're involved with it. 12:45 But as I look to Jesus, the ultimate authority, 12:50 as I looked to His followers, reflecting that authority 12:53 and empowered by having it. 12:56 I know that this is the key to the whole matter, 12:59 the summation of the issue, the ultimate authority. 13:04 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2015-07-23