Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Tim Roosenburg
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000288B
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00:06 Welcome back to the "Liberty Insider."
00:08 Before the break I was talking with Tim Rosenberg, 00:12 expert on Islam and Christianity and Daniel 11 00:16 and some of those pivotal prophecies 00:18 but also a pastor. 00:19 Just talking to Tim abou 00:20 how we can motivate church members, 00:24 in particular young people for religious liberty. 00:26 And you've come up with some good ideas 00:28 but, you know, it occurred to me 00:31 the key to this is sort of not moving 00:33 and its way you are hinting at earlier. 00:34 It's an history. 00:37 Yeah, unfortunately most people don't ever love their history. 00:41 But you know what really got the US started? 00:46 It was not the Tea Party 00:49 I mean, the original Tea Party the Boston. 00:53 It was the First Great Awakening 00:55 that set the turn and changed the mindset 00:58 that created this urge for freedom generally 01:01 but it was religious freedom but then it became political. 01:05 And then in the 19th century the mid 1800s 01:12 that was a second great awakening 01:14 that changed the whole landscape 01:16 and brought a refreshing to the religious life 01:19 of the United States. 01:20 And I guess when I'm thinking about it 01:23 that answers our challenge today, 01:25 if there's a broad based true religious awakening revival 01:32 in my church and your church I think by definition 01:36 religious liberty will regain a special prominence. 01:39 Has, Tim? 01:40 Yes, when true spiritual life improves 01:44 religious liberty should be improving. 01:46 Well, and an arrival and awakening will do then. 01:49 Yes. 01:50 So that's what we need to pray for 01:52 and so I've answered my own question. 01:53 I'm thinking of it but that did function in the United States 01:56 that I'm more and more convinced 01:58 the First Great Awakening has everything to do 02:01 with the American Revolution. 02:03 Because it's a-- 02:04 you know, I like American history 02:06 but it's not as simple as it appears 02:09 and in many ways the revolution itself 02:12 was the sort of a low level conspiracy 02:16 between some wealthy landed gentlemen 02:19 in their business interests and their baking desires. 02:21 They wanted to issue currency and so on. 02:23 But that wouldn't have gone anywhere 02:25 except that they found an answering response 02:29 from the whole body of people 02:30 that have been invigorated by sense of their-- 02:33 their self determination as Christians before God 02:37 and the principles of freedom 02:38 and you know, that they couldn't be 02:40 trodden on anyone. 02:41 I think that's when it linked 02:44 and of course the view which we counter in liberty 02:47 to some degreebut the view that God has a hand over 02:50 the of offensive nations and so on 02:51 and they took at the next step. 02:53 You know, American exception was 02:54 but that okay from the great awakening, 02:57 and without the grate awakening I just don't believe, 03:01 that the American Revolution probably 03:02 wouldn't have succeeded to stop with and even it had it 03:05 would have been a much more violent 03:11 and ultimately unsuccessful endeavor. 03:15 It wouldn't have created the states 03:18 because you know, the other miracle of America 03:21 is that the sovereignty, several states 03:23 turned into a single country they really want as that begin. 03:27 Yeah, yeah, 03:28 after the article and confederation on the rest 03:31 but I do believe God was working in all that, 03:35 gave us a springboard 03:37 for an example of what religious liberties 03:40 could be like at least to some extent. 03:43 Well, obviously there's a-- I thought of this lately 03:47 oh, there's a poem by William-- not William, 03:50 Lord Alfred Tennyson, the gleam. 03:54 Speaks of the gleam going for the idea the vision 03:57 and I think there was a, there was a spiritual vision 04:00 about many people of the land of freedom and opportunity 04:04 'cause that's beyond religion 04:05 but it included religious self determination 04:08 and the gleam is over shattered lot of sad realities 04:12 but the gleam is always been there 04:13 pulling us forward. 04:14 Yeah. 04:16 Well, as far as young people I think we step 04:22 with what we got this idealism misdirected and all the rest 04:25 but I think with young people and old people 04:27 we certainly could work 04:28 toward reviving their religious sensibilities. 04:31 Yeah, but that idealism, is idealism wrong? 04:35 The gleam is an ideal, isn't it? 04:37 Oh, I think idealism is not any wrong, 04:39 you can't live without it. 04:40 Yeah, and so we've got to harness that 04:43 and not just show them the-- the dangers 04:46 of what happens if you lose it 04:48 but the ideal that they're reaching forward 04:52 to something better just around that corner. 04:54 Yeah, and it has to be something transcend 04:59 and not limited in its-- its not utilitarian we do this 05:04 because if we believe in religious liberty 05:06 someone else will leave us alone or that's all true. 05:10 May be. 05:11 Well, at least 05:12 its part of the expectation of reciprocity. 05:15 As one of the-- the people documents even says 05:19 speaking of the presence we've done this, you did this. 05:22 But I think if it's on a transcend 05:24 and global view it's just a principle 05:26 that you're embody because you believe in that 05:28 and these good things flow from it. 05:30 But you went to others as it would happen. 05:31 Yeah. 05:32 Do you want to hear? Yep. 05:34 And you know, back to what we see 05:36 on Islamic fundamentalism expressed 05:38 through the Jihadi terrorist movement, 05:41 there's not much positive reciprocity 05:44 at work is there? 05:45 Yeah. 05:46 Its intimidation, its violence and, you know, 05:49 my way or the highway. 05:51 Well, may way or-- 05:53 It's a death. 05:54 It's a death and you know, 05:56 I think religion is a whole 05:58 it's not going to be help by this. 06:00 Even if-- even if aggressive 06:03 western/Christian response would have put that down 06:07 it would-- itself would just 06:08 like whole war really 06:10 you drone to that low common denominator 06:13 and it's not a good place for religious exchange 06:15 in religious liberty to exist it. 06:18 Yeah, I was just thinking 06:19 I had some Muslims in one my meetings telling me 06:21 that the Middle East had Muslim territories 06:25 have freedom of religion. 06:26 Religious liberty. 06:27 They really told you that? 06:28 Oh, they told me that and they were arguing 06:30 and I said, let me understand this. 06:33 I can go to and I named a couple of countries 06:35 and I could take my Bible, 06:36 I could go on the street and convince people 06:39 to become Christian and started church right there. 06:43 And they tried to tell me yes. 06:44 I said, what? 06:48 You know and I know that's not true. 06:50 Oh, there's a wide proof even in the most liberal 06:52 there's a wide variety of laws restricting 06:54 on Muslim behavior like in Indonesia, 06:59 which is a relatively open country. 07:04 Our Christian school there if one Muslim student registers 07:08 they have to hire Muslim students to teach them, 07:10 forbidden for a Christian to teach a Muslim 07:12 and that's pretty typical. 07:14 It's all designed to-- to encapsulate 07:17 this tainting religious influence 07:20 and at many times it's more than that it's punitive. 07:23 There are penalties and extra charges 07:26 and severe restrictions on movement and behavior. 07:31 And something that I'm surprised 07:33 that they didn't acknowledge 07:34 it's a boost of most Muslim country 07:36 that there is no such thing 07:37 as separation of church and state. 07:39 Yeah. 07:40 It's antithetical to the current view 07:43 of how the religion operates toward the state. 07:46 It's to become the state. 07:48 It's not that they joined together. 07:49 There's no-- there is only one entity. 07:53 The states is your religious enforcer 07:57 and of course we see that fully exemplified in Iran 08:00 to their detriment. 08:02 But you've had some wonderful discussions 08:04 I could tell with some of your attendees 08:06 and some of the Muslims. 08:08 Yeah, I get a brand new group every other week. 08:10 Yeah, now I really believe that your ministry 08:15 is touching people in a way that very few 08:18 or I put it another way. 08:20 It's touching that it's-- the people that you're touching 08:22 some of these ones that would not be touched 08:25 by normal well, you know, the traditional prophecy 08:30 or even spiritual average programs 08:34 and we need to do that. 08:36 There's different approaches for different folks 08:38 and given that this whole world is convulse 08:41 by this often violent dialog between Christianity and Islam. 08:46 We need to move in there and explain it. 08:49 Yes. 08:50 Misinformation. 08:52 So final word on young people and well, 08:55 I shouldn't just make young people-- 08:56 Is it anybody? 08:57 How do we involve the rank and file 09:00 of our faith in religious liberty? 09:05 Well, one of the things I've learned 09:07 is not just looking at the apocalyptic 09:09 and the problems and all the rest of that 09:11 but you really look it. 09:12 Hey, this is about rescue. This is about Jesus returning. 09:16 This is about the good news of treating others 09:17 like we wanted to be treated. 09:20 Jesus said, hey all the stuff is happening in the world 09:23 let not your heart be troubled. 09:25 You believe in God believe also in me 09:26 I'm coming again is what He is saying. 09:28 And He is coming to take us to be with Him in heaven. 09:31 We really need to be excited about that 09:33 and sure that along with all the rest. 09:37 Many apostles library is over burdened 09:41 by books dealing with this topic 09:44 many a seminaries' 09:46 library is filled to overflowing by this topic. 09:51 How to witness and yet it's amazing 09:54 because you look at the Bible and its very obvious 09:58 how the gospel commission began. 10:00 It was people who'd been healed the lame, the blind. 10:05 Thus that it'd been relived 10:06 to some incredible spiritual possession. 10:09 They said, all I know is that I once was blind, 10:13 I once was lame, now I see. 10:16 When we talk about religious liberty 10:17 I know that that is the key element to we want people 10:21 who've experienced religious liberty 10:24 understand what a truly stands for and how intimately 10:28 its connected with the gospel commission. 10:31 With that sort of attitude it should be too hard 10:33 to speak about religious liberty. 10:35 As Paul said, to speak of the gospel of liberty 10:38 as the Bible says elsewhere to proclaim liberty 10:42 through out the land. 10:43 We don't need too many books 10:46 other than the great book to tell us how to do that. 10:51 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2015-07-23