Welcome back to
the "Liberty Insider."
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Before the break I was
talking with Tim Rosenberg,
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expert on Islam and
Christianity and Daniel 11
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and some of those
pivotal prophecies
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but also a pastor.
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Just talking to Tim abou
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how we can
motivate church members,
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in particular young
people for religious liberty.
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And you've come up
with some good ideas
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but, you know, it occurred to me
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the key to this
is sort of not moving
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and its way you
are hinting at earlier.
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It's an history.
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Yeah, unfortunately most people
don't ever love their history.
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But you know what
really got the US started?
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It was not the Tea Party
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I mean, the original
Tea Party the Boston.
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It was the First Great Awakening
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that set the turn
and changed the mindset
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that created this
urge for freedom generally
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but it was religious freedom
but then it became political.
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And then in the 19th
century the mid 1800s
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that was a
second great awakening
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that changed the whole landscape
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and brought a
refreshing to the religious life
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of the United States.
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And I guess when
I'm thinking about it
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that answers
our challenge today,
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if there's a broad based
true religious awakening revival
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in my church and your
church I think by definition
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religious liberty will
regain a special prominence.
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Has, Tim?
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Yes, when true
spiritual life improves
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religious liberty
should be improving.
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Well, and an arrival
and awakening will do then.
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Yes.
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So that's what
we need to pray for
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and so I've
answered my own question.
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I'm thinking of it but that did
function in the United States
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that I'm more and more convinced
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the First Great
Awakening has everything to do
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with the American Revolution.
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Because it's a--
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you know, I
like American history
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but it's not as
simple as it appears
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and in many ways
the revolution itself
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was the sort of a
low level conspiracy
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between some
wealthy landed gentlemen
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in their business interests
and their baking desires.
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They wanted to
issue currency and so on.
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But that wouldn't
have gone anywhere
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except that they
found an answering response
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from the whole body of people
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that have been
invigorated by sense of their--
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their self determination
as Christians before God
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and the principles of freedom
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and you know,
that they couldn't be
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trodden on anyone.
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I think that's when it linked
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and of course the view
which we counter in liberty
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to some degreebut the
view that God has a hand over
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the of offensive
nations and so on
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and they took at the next step.
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You know, American exception was
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but that okay from
the great awakening,
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and without the grate
awakening I just don't believe,
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that the American
Revolution probably
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wouldn't have succeeded to
stop with and even it had it
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would have been
a much more violent
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and ultimately
unsuccessful endeavor.
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It wouldn't have
created the states
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because you know, the
other miracle of America
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is that the
sovereignty, several states
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turned into a single country
they really want as that begin.
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Yeah, yeah,
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after the article and
confederation on the rest
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but I do believe God
was working in all that,
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gave us a springboard
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for an example of
what religious liberties
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could be like at
least to some extent.
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Well, obviously there's
a-- I thought of this lately
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oh, there's a poem by
William-- not William,
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Lord Alfred Tennyson, the gleam.
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Speaks of the gleam
going for the idea the vision
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and I think there was a,
there was a spiritual vision
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about many people of the
land of freedom and opportunity
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'cause that's beyond religion
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but it included
religious self determination
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and the gleam is over
shattered lot of sad realities
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but the gleam is
always been there
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pulling us forward.
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Yeah.
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Well, as far as young
people I think we step
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with what we got this idealism
misdirected and all the rest
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but I think with
young people and old people
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we certainly could work
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toward reviving their
religious sensibilities.
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Yeah, but that
idealism, is idealism wrong?
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The gleam is an ideal, isn't it?
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Oh, I think
idealism is not any wrong,
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you can't live without it.
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Yeah, and so we've
got to harness that
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and not just show
them the-- the dangers
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of what happens if you lose it
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but the ideal that
they're reaching forward
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to something better
just around that corner.
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Yeah, and it has to
be something transcend
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and not limited in its--
its not utilitarian we do this
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because if we
believe in religious liberty
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someone else will leave
us alone or that's all true.
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May be.
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Well, at least
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its part of the
expectation of reciprocity.
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As one of the-- the
people documents even says
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speaking of the presence
we've done this, you did this.
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But I think if
it's on a transcend
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and global view
it's just a principle
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that you're embody
because you believe in that
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and these good
things flow from it.
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But you went to
others as it would happen.
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Yeah.
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Do you want to hear? Yep.
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And you know,
back to what we see
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on Islamic
fundamentalism expressed
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through the Jihadi
terrorist movement,
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there's not much
positive reciprocity
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at work is there?
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Yeah.
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Its intimidation, its
violence and, you know,
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my way or the highway.
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Well, may way or--
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It's a death.
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It's a death and you know,
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I think religion is a whole
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it's not going
to be help by this.
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Even if-- even if aggressive
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western/Christian response
would have put that down
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it would-- itself would just
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like whole war really
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you drone to that
low common denominator
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and it's not a good
place for religious exchange
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in religious
liberty to exist it.
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Yeah, I was just thinking
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I had some Muslims in
one my meetings telling me
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that the Middle East
had Muslim territories
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have freedom of religion.
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Religious liberty.
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They really told you that?
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Oh, they told me
that and they were arguing
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and I said, let
me understand this.
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I can go to and I
named a couple of countries
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and I could take my Bible,
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I could go on the
street and convince people
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to become Christian and
started church right there.
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And they tried to tell me yes.
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I said, what?
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You know and I
know that's not true.
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Oh, there's a wide
proof even in the most liberal
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there's a wide
variety of laws restricting
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on Muslim
behavior like in Indonesia,
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which is a
relatively open country.
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Our Christian school there
if one Muslim student registers
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they have to hire
Muslim students to teach them,
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forbidden for a
Christian to teach a Muslim
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and that's pretty typical.
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It's all designed
to-- to encapsulate
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this tainting
religious influence
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and at many times it's
more than that it's punitive.
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There are
penalties and extra charges
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and severe restrictions
on movement and behavior.
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And something that I'm surprised
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that they didn't acknowledge
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it's a boost of
most Muslim country
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that there is no such thing
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as separation of
church and state.
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Yeah.
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It's antithetical
to the current view
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of how the religion
operates toward the state.
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It's to become the state.
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It's not that
they joined together.
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There's no-- there
is only one entity.
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The states is
your religious enforcer
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and of course we see
that fully exemplified in Iran
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to their detriment.
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But you've had some
wonderful discussions
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I could tell with
some of your attendees
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and some of the Muslims.
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Yeah, I get a brand
new group every other week.
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Yeah, now I really
believe that your ministry
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is touching people
in a way that very few
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or I put it another way.
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It's touching that it's--
the people that you're touching
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some of these ones
that would not be touched
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by normal well, you
know, the traditional prophecy
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or even
spiritual average programs
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and we need to do that.
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There's different
approaches for different folks
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and given that this
whole world is convulse
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by this often violent dialog
between Christianity and Islam.
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We need to move in
there and explain it.
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Yes.
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Misinformation.
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So final word on
young people and well,
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I shouldn't just
make young people--
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Is it anybody?
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How do we
involve the rank and file
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of our faith in
religious liberty?
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Well, one of the
things I've learned
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is not just
looking at the apocalyptic
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and the problems
and all the rest of that
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but you really look it.
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Hey, this is about rescue.
This is about Jesus returning.
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This is about the good
news of treating others
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like we wanted to be treated.
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Jesus said, hey all the
stuff is happening in the world
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let not your heart be troubled.
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You believe in
God believe also in me
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I'm coming again
is what He is saying.
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And He is coming to take
us to be with Him in heaven.
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We really need to
be excited about that
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and sure that
along with all the rest.
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Many apostles
library is over burdened
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by books dealing with this topic
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many a seminaries'
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library is filled to
overflowing by this topic.
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How to witness
and yet it's amazing
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because you look at the
Bible and its very obvious
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how the gospel commission began.
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It was people who'd been
healed the lame, the blind.
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Thus that it'd been relived
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to some incredible
spiritual possession.
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They said, all I know
is that I once was blind,
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I once was lame, now I see.
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When we talk
about religious liberty
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I know that that is the
key element to we want people
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who've
experienced religious liberty
00:10:21.69\00:10:24.02
understand what a truly
stands for and how intimately
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its connected with
the gospel commission.
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With that sort of
attitude it should be too hard
00:10:31.37\00:10:33.71
to speak about
religious liberty.
00:10:33.74\00:10:35.49
As Paul said, to speak
of the gospel of liberty
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as the Bible says
elsewhere to proclaim liberty
00:10:38.68\00:10:42.13
through out the land.
00:10:42.16\00:10:43.87
We don't need too many books
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other than the great book
to tell us how to do that.
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For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:10:51.63\00:10:55.04