Welcome to "The
Liberty Insider."
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This is the program
that brings you news, views,
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discussion,
analysis, inside information
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if you like on
religious liberty events
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in the United States
and around the world.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
Editor of Liberty Magazine
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and my guest on this
program is Tim Roosenberg
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and he's been on other programs
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and I've
introduced you as an author,
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a prophecy lecturer and,
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I can even say a motivational
speaker of sorts but,
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I want to exploit
part of your background.
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I know you for many years
you've been a church pastor.
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Yes.
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Which given that
you're talking about
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religious political events.
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It's probably a good
background, you know,
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as I remember Stallone
was a seminary student.
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Thank you. What a comparison.
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Yeah, you know, the
some of them chase the world
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with bad politic and
its an uncanny number
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of public figures if
you really look at it
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that were either from
the children of ministers
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or one time religious students.
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So it seems to go
together, great ideas
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and being a pastor
and I'd like to tap
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into you some of your
great ideas on pastor--
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We will see if I
have great ideas.
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On religious liberty.
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Yeah, you know
what, you and I've talked
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and we'll talk more
probably about Islam,
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which is your
focus at the moment.
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And there's many
challenges to religious liberty
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around the world but
the greatest challenge
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that I see as I look
to my own membership,
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my own church how do
you involve the members,
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how do you get a
buy in into the concepts
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and the goals and the
action of religious liberty?
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But-- we'll start
it in another way.
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Do you remember any of you--
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Buying period from the young.
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Yeah, have you--
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have you ever met
any of your members?
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Do you remember
any of your members
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who were oppose
to religious liberty?
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Yes.
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Oh, you have. Okay, tell me.
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I never have.
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Well, they have their viewpoint,
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they don't want anyone else
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to be able to
share their viewpoint.
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Oh, yeah, but they're not
against religious liberty.
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Well, they say they are for it
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but they're actions are
speaking pretty loudly to--
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Yeah, now I agree with that.
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So you agree with me,
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and I will state what I've seen.
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You know I've been
in communist countries,
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I've been in some dictatorships,
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different variations on
so called open societies
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and the-- the
leaders and the people.
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They're all for
religious liberty.
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You know, the communist system
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used to have religious
liberty in the constitution.
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Yeah, so--
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But what they mean what
is very, very different.
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Yes. So your point is correct.
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But I've-- this is not--
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I've yet to come
across a person who says,
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I'm not for
religious liberty, bad concept.
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I don't want to
grant other people anything
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or I don't think we should
be free to practice faith.
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Its not gonna happen.
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But yet they
define it differently.
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But how do you get them
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even with the wrong
idea on religious liberty.
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How do you get them
to do something about it?
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How do you get
them to, you know,
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from our perspective
support the magazine?
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How do you get them to
write to their politicians
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to even just speak
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to their fellow
members in favor of this?
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We both kind of have
an interesting history.
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Take a look at history,
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when did people get
involved in situations
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when they feel they are at risk?
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It's the rare exception
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when somebody will
go defend somebody else.
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Yeah.
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And so the majority
of people aren't gonna do
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anything till
they feel threatened.
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It's a--
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And so your challenge
and mine is to help them see
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how this threatens
them in the long run.
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Well, obviously you're
going around talking on this,
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your one aspect
motivating people.
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Oh, definitely.
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But I don't know
the answer to this.
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There's a lot of
complacency that play here.
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There's a lot of
narrow sectarian interest
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and not concerned
abut someone else's view.
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And Islam, and the
fundamentalist Islam
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and terrorism is boarded
right in front of people faces
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and that really have
to think a bit about it.
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But even then I
don't think most people
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are motivated to-- to
step out from the norm.
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Well, I found one thing
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that kind of has
helped a little bit.
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This is coming
from my background
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of what you were
just talking about.
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As I start sharing
the North South struggle,
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Islam, Christian people
and Christianity struggle
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and I just start
pointing out that,
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if the military
option ends up being upon
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in the hands of these
powers and all of a sudden
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you have people start
reevaluation their career
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sometimes, young
people going out.
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So if I end up
military I could end up
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upon in somebody's hands.
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Yeah.
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You know, that's a
challenging concept because,
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yeah, militaries are
important for nations.
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But what's your
risk as a Christian
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and being used as
upon in a holy war now.
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Well, more then a risk.
It's a strong likelihood.
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It's a strong likelihood. Yeah.
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And all of a sudden
young people are go in,
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oh, this is about my choices.
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Because they're uninvolved
because they don't think
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it makes a
difference to their life.
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Well, I don't know
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what's the answer
you are trying to give
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but I guess part
of what we're often
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not supplying as a consequence
to lack of religious liberty.
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We even need to
make that really clear
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what are the consequence.
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Yeah, and they're often stories
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that don't involve
the average person.
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We usually shares
stories of someone
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who had accommodation
in the workplace and so on.
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Likely, I've tried
more to show people
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that weren't accommodated.
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People that went to
prison for their faith
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not that that's
gonna happen to them,
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but that's really where you see
religious liberty battled over
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and tested, you know, in a way
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that just a court
case never can do.
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Now last summer,
I was in Nigeria.
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I flew into Abuja and as we
were driving trough the city,
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I see a huge mosque,
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that's the national
mosque and a huge church,
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that's the national church.
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They're trying to be
even handed with both.
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But at the same
time at the streets
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our armed person at the--
entered major intersections,
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armed personal carries
with turned machine guns on top
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and snowplows to push
cars out of the way in--
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because, you know, car bomb
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or something you've to
get through the crowd of cars
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and that's all
holy war stuff going on.
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You could drive
through the same city in--
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on a Sunday, the
streets are blocked
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because they parked the cars
everywhere on the major streets
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so a car bomb
can't get to a church.
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Now here's an interesting thing.
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Christianity and
Islam in this conflict
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neither have gone underground.
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They are both
coming out in the open
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at the risk of being
killed by the other side.
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In that culture its not,
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some non-definite they idea,
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its real and they
come out in the open
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and until Christians
see a conflict as real
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or Muslims they just go
along with a secular Christian,
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whatever mix and
somehow we got to let them see
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it is real, not to
become militaristic.
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I think the reason that's
so open in those countries
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is that's impossible to
go underground, because in--
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in traditional cultures
and societies everybody knows
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what everyone else is doing.
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I mean, not each person
knows what every other person
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but they community--
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Oh, but -- but they've got signs
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everywhere
painted on their walls.
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Well, yeah, but I
mean they've gone that way
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because there is no alternative.
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You can't be
invisible in your neighborhood,
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which you can in the west.
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You some of us even
do it in that place.
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You come and go and do you thing
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and you just open the
door and go in but you don't--
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your neighbor doesn't
know what you're doing.
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You don't know what
your neighbor thinks a lot.
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We're-- we're more insulated.
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But certainly--
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But back to your
question young people
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if its not life and death
issue they tend to ignore it.
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And that's human nature
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but I know that--
but it does trouble me.
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I wish there was a way
and we're trying certainly
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within our church
with an organization called
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the North American
Religious Liberty Association.
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We're trying to turn it
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in to an activist
member driven thing.
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Where we've got a
car drive of true believe
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that can do things.
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Its proving hard.
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And something just hit me.
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I've gone in and testified it
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on the state house level
for religious liberty issues.
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Questions of conscience
cases and things like that,
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when different bills
were being discussed.
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We should've been
taking young people with us
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to listen in and to realize it
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it's really
happening in our world.
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We've done this a few
times and just a few days ago
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some of these NARLA people
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we took them down to Washington
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and visited in the
offices of different senators
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and Congressmen
and they love it.
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So we need to
do more about that.
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What about having them
write up their experiences
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in some of the
magazines for their peers?
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I've tried a little bit
but we need more of its.
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Its very hard to get
stories from young people well,
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we need to, we need to.
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One of the things I
used to do as a pastor
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and I've often been
involved with the young people
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and one of my
favorite things to do
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is to get
purposefully in an argument
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with the young people.
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There was a
advocate kind of thing,
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I'll go after and prove
their spiritual viewpoint wrong
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by taking
somebody else's viewpoint
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and just go after
them and get them irritated
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so that they start
grabbing for their Bibles
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to prove me wrong and at
that's when I knew I made it.
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When I can get them go
into the Bible to prove
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and then I'll
eventually help them out,
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You've given me a good idea.
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Get thinking
about that, when find--
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We need to sponsor
religious liberty debates
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with young people.
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Oh, that would work.
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Very much like
debating societies
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where you have teams
and you gave them a premise
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and or two sides of a premise.
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Just assigned,
because very good.
00:10:47.21\00:10:49.63
I found it very good
sometimes, if you would--
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I think you know
me well enough already
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that I sometimes
counter view, just you--
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Sure, I do too.
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Just to draw at
what the other person
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can say to defend the
view that I might have.
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But think as a
Seventh-day Adventist.
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Yes.
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We're not
always-- like any church
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you get people
that have a viewpoint
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and they're not
willing to allow somebody else
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have another viewpoint, may
be a part of this discussion
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and everything
would be to learn.
00:11:14.80\00:11:16.53
Hey, we could
actually love each other
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and believe we're
both going to heaven
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even if we have a different
viewpoint on some things
00:11:20.88\00:11:24.36
if we're both
in love with Jesus.
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Yeah.
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Now anyhow this--
this is the moment.
00:11:26.99\00:11:29.41
Viewers, when the debating
society for religious liberty
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and I think I'm gonna push that,
00:11:33.73\00:11:35.39
but in a good suggestion.
00:11:35.42\00:11:37.06
But I know, you know,
as much of the posters
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and of many of the
churches I'm sure to,
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it's very hard to get members
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and particularly
young people to do things.
00:11:46.61\00:11:48.67
They will sit and listen
if they come in the door,
00:11:48.70\00:11:51.10
but beyond that
unless it's, you know--
00:11:51.13\00:11:53.99
That we've got it.
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Camping out or something
that's just a regular activity,
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they may not
respond to involvement.
00:11:57.24\00:12:00.16
Yeah, I've-- wherever
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I've been I try
to get kids involved
00:12:01.47\00:12:03.44
in worship services
and all kinds of things
00:12:03.47\00:12:05.69
because if they're not
involved it's not theirs.
00:12:05.72\00:12:08.58
Yeah, you've got to
by in at some point.
00:12:08.61\00:12:10.42
You get a young person involved
00:12:10.45\00:12:11.62
and the other kids are paying
attention while they're there.
00:12:11.65\00:12:13.66
Absolutely, and I'm not young
anymore or I feel that old.
00:12:13.69\00:12:17.85
But I'm-- the candles
00:12:17.88\00:12:19.79
are getting quite
hot to me, you know that,
00:12:19.82\00:12:22.42
but I could remember
00:12:22.45\00:12:23.97
what its like to be young person
00:12:24.00\00:12:25.05
and I do believe young
people are inherently idealistic
00:12:25.08\00:12:31.87
and that needs to be honest.
00:12:31.90\00:12:35.02
You might find some of
those young people really good
00:12:35.05\00:12:37.76
what they're
doing in those debating
00:12:37.79\00:12:39.70
then consider
doing a team sermon
00:12:39.73\00:12:41.52
with one of those good ones.
00:12:41.55\00:12:42.67
Yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah.
00:12:42.70\00:12:45.40
I did that one time and
we had a truth split over,
00:12:45.43\00:12:49.66
a youth activities
and-- and separating youth
00:12:49.69\00:12:52.91
from the church and
a young person and I
00:12:52.94\00:12:56.22
get together and
we did a team sermon
00:12:56.25\00:12:57.87
that help pull
the church together.
00:12:57.90\00:13:01.39
Yeah it's a double head
sword to have a separate service
00:13:01.42\00:13:04.05
for young people
and they enjoy it
00:13:04.08\00:13:06.32
but they need to be incorporated
00:13:06.35\00:13:07.62
into the main group
00:13:07.65\00:13:09.44
and for them to
lead out is a good thing.
00:13:09.47\00:13:12.00
But yeah, religious
liberty can be lost very easily
00:13:12.03\00:13:16.23
in the world at large if
its not individual people
00:13:16.26\00:13:19.38
that fight for it and argue
for it and live it, advance it.
00:13:19.41\00:13:24.78
You know the -- communism
00:13:24.81\00:13:26.99
is in its
twilight days in some ways
00:13:27.02\00:13:29.23
but it advanced by
mostly young people.
00:13:29.26\00:13:32.13
But they vision some other
more revolutionaries not here.
00:13:32.16\00:13:34.90
Islamic states
mostly young people...
00:13:34.93\00:13:36.56
Oh, absolutely,
yes, it's a good point.
00:13:36.59\00:13:38.56
Christianity is gonna have
00:13:38.59\00:13:39.64
to become young
people pretty soon.
00:13:39.67\00:13:41.37
And the level
of their commitment
00:13:41.40\00:13:43.29
of Islamic State is
very interesting that,
00:13:43.32\00:13:45.59
a number of the young
girls that they picked up
00:13:45.62\00:13:48.44
trying to leave the US.
00:13:48.47\00:13:49.69
They be going over there
just to marry a revolution--
00:13:49.72\00:13:52.29
to marry one of the Jihadi's
00:13:52.32\00:13:54.68
which is sort of strange
00:13:54.71\00:13:55.74
because the
Jihadi is ready to die
00:13:55.77\00:13:58.50
and act suicidal so
the marriage is probably
00:13:58.53\00:14:01.74
in potential not too long live
but that's their contribution.
00:14:01.77\00:14:04.98
When unless you have
something worth dying for,
00:14:05.01\00:14:07.13
you have
anything worth living for.
00:14:07.16\00:14:08.28
Well, that's the
statement, isn't it?
00:14:08.31\00:14:09.36
Yeah.
00:14:09.40\00:14:10.73
And you can see it in
history that's pretty much true.
00:14:10.76\00:14:12.73
But I do know, again remembering
00:14:12.76\00:14:14.54
what its like as young person
00:14:14.57\00:14:16.65
and I don't know how
get through those them.
00:14:16.68\00:14:19.04
It's a great concept to--
00:14:19.07\00:14:22.51
you know, to spend
yourself on something
00:14:22.54\00:14:24.97
and for an Islamic young person,
00:14:25.00\00:14:27.19
Islamic fundamentalist
to die worth dying for,
00:14:27.22\00:14:30.55
but a young person
doesn't understand this,
00:14:30.58\00:14:32.61
it's an abstraction.
00:14:32.64\00:14:34.70
So that they might die
00:14:34.73\00:14:37.18
but they are not
really meaning to die.
00:14:37.21\00:14:38.96
Yeah.
00:14:38.99\00:14:40.02
They think they're immortal.
00:14:40.05\00:14:41.66
Right, young
people do think. Yeah.
00:14:41.69\00:14:43.65
So, that's not
just Islamic State,
00:14:43.68\00:14:47.44
that's why the Marines
and all of rest they sign up
00:14:47.47\00:14:49.79
the 18-year-olds get involved.
00:14:49.82\00:14:52.32
Well, they are
unaware of their mortality.
00:14:52.35\00:14:56.34
When they can still be
taught to a follow orders.
00:14:56.37\00:14:58.44
Right, yeah. Oh, yeah.
00:14:58.47\00:15:00.51
Anyhow, that's another topic.
00:15:00.54\00:15:01.63
Now we need to have,
a program on militarism
00:15:01.66\00:15:04.91
and how it affects religion.
00:15:04.94\00:15:07.17
Yes. And freedom issues.
00:15:07.20\00:15:09.08
But, yeah you've come up
with some good suggestions.
00:15:09.11\00:15:15.00
May be we
should take a break now
00:15:15.03\00:15:17.75
and we'll be back to
continue this brainstorming
00:15:17.78\00:15:21.09
for religious liberty.
00:15:21.12\00:15:22.22