Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Tim Roosenburg
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000287A
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00:21 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:24 I want you to know the name of this program, 00:26 remember it and watch it. 00:27 This is a program that bringing you 00:28 up-to-date news, views, discussion 00:30 and analysis of religious liberty developments 00:33 around the world 00:35 and often particularly in the United States. 00:37 My name, Lincoln Steed, editor of Liberty Magazine. 00:40 And my guest on this program is Tim Roosenberg, 00:43 author, lecturer and expander on prophecy in particulars 00:48 that relates to some in time apocalyptic events 00:52 that mention Islam-- 00:54 Yes. 00:55 And Christianity under the Roman Catholicism. 00:59 I think the most topical thing 01:01 to jump into with the discussion 01:02 in this program is ISIL 01:05 as the President Obama, President Obama 01:09 always is at great pains to call it ISIL not ISIS 01:12 and some of the other acronyms 01:13 which stands for Islamic State of Iraq and... 01:18 The Levant. The Levant. 01:20 What's the Levant? 01:22 That includes Bagdad-- I mean, Iraq. 01:24 It includes Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Israel, Lebanon, 01:31 it's that whole area. 01:32 It's that whole area 01:33 on the side of the Mediterranean 01:35 between turkey and Egypt. 01:38 Yeah. 01:39 Up to and possibly including Egypt. 01:41 I was hoping you'd do what I sometimes do, 01:44 reaching to the Bible for a term. 01:46 There's a phrase there to describe it in the Bible. 01:49 It talks about the Glorious Land. 01:51 Oh. 01:52 Well, I-- when I see Glorious Land 01:54 I actually think more of the land of Israel myself. 01:57 I think the whole-- it comprises the whole thing 01:59 but it certainly-- 02:02 Israel is within that sweat 02:04 so we know that ISIS has more the names. 02:08 They are claming 02:11 and intend to take that whole swathe 02:14 that includes Israel. 02:16 Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi right after declaring caliphate 02:20 made it clear that they were going after Rome and the globe. 02:25 So-- 02:26 And they said, Washington? 02:28 Oh, yeah, Washington is part of the globe. 02:30 His two targets in that initial statement 02:33 were Rome and the globe. 02:36 And so yeah, they don't go by ISIS themselves, 02:42 they actually go by Islamic State 02:43 because their intent is worldwide, 02:45 not just the Levant. 02:47 The president interestingly using the Levant 02:51 is trying to say there a regional threat 02:55 not to just to Iraq and Syria but they are regional threat. 02:57 Yes. 02:59 But he's enlarged it-- 03:00 using that enlarges beyond Iraq and Syria. 03:02 Yeah, but it's still that region, 03:04 they want to be considered as a global threat. 03:07 Well, the whole definition of the caliphate 03:11 is the ruler of the Islamic world. 03:14 Yes. 03:15 And people weren't listening very clearly to Osama bin Laden 03:19 but that was his goal 03:21 to reinstitute the global caliphate. 03:24 They think that it would take quit a bit longer thought 03:27 Probably, yeah. 03:28 And Islamic State got little anxious. 03:29 Yeah. 03:30 But the idea of the Islamic State 03:32 is under the Khalifah ruler 03:34 and you know the Khalifs go back to Mohammed's era. 03:40 Any country that is all Islamic of course is automatically in, 03:44 any majority Islamic country is to be instantly convert-- 03:49 you know, I mean, made one of the states. 03:52 And then they are also to work very vigorously 03:55 where there is any sort of an Islamic presence 03:57 to purgative other forces and bring it into the-- 04:01 So it's an aggressive expanding concept 04:05 of the whole Omar or the peoples of the faith. 04:11 Now-- 04:13 And the last time it existed 04:14 was under the Ottoman Turkish rule. 04:19 The Atlantic Monthly had a really interesting article 04:22 about what does ISIS really want. 04:24 And it's about their-- their own apocalyptic viewpoint 04:28 where their intention is to draw the world 04:32 into a conflict in Syria 04:34 where they believe they will be reduced to 5,000 fighters 04:38 and then God will defend them 04:41 and they will then conquer the world. 04:43 And so all these atrocities, 04:45 all the things that they do 04:48 are intended to bring a response 04:51 and provoke an attack against them in Syria. 04:55 And so that is their whole goal. 04:59 So if you ignore them they will continue to create havoc. 05:05 And by the way they are killing Jews, 05:08 Christians and Muslims who disagree with them. 05:10 It's havoc for everybody who disagrees. 05:12 Yeah, anybody that doesn't' acknowledge 05:15 the one faith, of course. 05:16 Yeah. 05:17 And so they are creating that havoc. 05:20 So if leave them alone 05:21 the havoc will only continue to spread 05:23 but if you counter-attack in the way they want you to do 05:26 which is troops on the ground then you played right into it. 05:31 So you got the governments in the region 05:33 trying to just do it by air-power 05:36 without troops on the ground, but that so far hasn't worked. 05:40 As a matter of fact you have-- you're different Al-Shabaab, 05:46 Boko Haram, all these other groups 05:49 have now sworn allegiance to the Islamic State. 05:54 Not all of them but many of them. 05:55 Well, yeah. 05:56 You've got something like 40 of them-- 05:57 That's many, many groups, yeah. 05:59 That have sworn allegiance to them, 06:00 so you get-- 06:01 you're getting radical Muslims all over-- 06:04 Well, there's a global steering of radical Islam. 06:07 That's what's going on and yeah, bombing also 06:12 I think is only going to be railing point for them. 06:15 I personally-- 06:16 At this point I agree-- 06:17 Well, the whole world, 06:18 you know, religion is the aspect here 06:20 but just looking at it as a political challenge 06:25 for peace and stability. 06:27 I think that best left alone even thought 06:29 there's really no good choice at this point 06:33 it remains to be same 06:34 how it would work out sociologically. 06:36 We may be over the tipping point 06:37 where there's so much agitation within Muslim communities 06:40 that recruiting will continue un-abided 06:43 but I think playing into their hands 06:44 by attacking them only increases their strength. 06:47 So what do you do about-- 06:48 And the US particularly should learn this from the Vietnam War 06:52 which had nothing much to do with the religion 06:54 but we used to have body counts 06:56 and yet the army was-- 06:59 the enemies were getting more and more over time 07:01 because you actually recruiting by creating 07:06 or forting their generally held aims. 07:11 From a political viewpoint there are no good options. 07:14 No, it's a dangerous situations and-- 07:17 And because most politicians 07:19 don't' really understand the spiritual-- 07:21 Absolutely. 07:23 They end up creating more problems 07:25 whenever they try a political solution. 07:27 Yeah. 07:28 But you know, I would hate to be a civil leader today 07:31 because there are too many good options-- 07:34 Okay-- 07:35 And while on a religions liberty front 07:37 we need to avoid-- 07:40 well, we certainly should never encourage religious persecution 07:44 or exclusion or whatever. 07:47 I think the civil-- I am trying to-- 07:52 I am minding my words 07:53 because I can get in trouble with this. 07:56 What the civil governments have done 07:58 and particularly in the US in sort of giving way 08:01 to rather outrageous demands 08:04 from religious group that have a political agenda, 08:07 I don't think that's what their will. 08:09 And so they-- maybe I should put I this way, 08:14 I think any civil government 08:18 when it's dealing with the religious group 08:19 should demand that they behave 08:21 according to the civil norms of the country. 08:24 Right. 08:25 And we're a little afraid at the moment 08:28 and we're giving way to the demands 08:29 even for Sharia law in certain communities, 08:33 we're allowing I think some talk that's not too good, 08:38 not so much the US but I know in England. 08:40 I saw a video in a mosque where they were actually-- 08:43 was filmed surreptitiously. 08:45 Well, they were telling people how to lay barrage balloons 08:48 and set grenades for approaching airliners. 08:52 You know, seditious behavior 08:54 by any religious group is exactly that. 08:57 It just happens to be happening in the religious context 09:00 but it shouldn't be allowed by the state. 09:02 And I am afraid that the Western powers 09:06 are going to overreach when they get to the point 09:09 where they're troubled by 09:10 some of this religious agitation 09:13 rather than directing countering it, 09:16 they're just going to restrict religions behavior. 09:19 That wouldn't be in anyone's interest. 09:21 That's what happened in the time of the Crusades, 09:23 the Ottoman's the reformation and the prophecy said 09:25 it's coming around one more time-- 09:26 So I am going to agree with you. 09:27 Well, yes. 09:28 I can't disagree with that either. 09:30 You're picking it on the other side, 09:31 picking it without understanding, 09:34 without explaining prophecy. 09:36 Well, that's bother prophetic and historic. 09:38 Yeah. 09:39 So we had a very interesting point but-- 09:41 So you see ISIL then as almost unstoppable or what? 09:47 What should-- 09:48 What I see is-- 09:49 The nations do and what can we do individually? 09:52 What is see is nearly unstoppable, 09:54 is that there's a holy war coming. 09:59 What can we do? 10:01 Number one, 10:02 we ought to be learning to follow scripture. 10:06 The religious liberty aspect, 10:08 if I am not willing to let a Muslim have religious liberty 10:12 I won't have it either. 10:15 I don't' have to agree with people 10:17 to support their liberties. 10:19 Right. 10:20 What's happening is the King of the North, 10:21 King of the South have both restricted liberties. 10:24 If you do not do that 10:26 you're gonna get caught in the middle, 10:28 it's been through history. 10:30 And so-- and by the way the safest place 10:33 in this prophecy of Daniel 11 is in the middle. 10:35 Oh, I thought-- 10:36 It's in the middle. 10:38 No, it's-- Oh, you can't even hide in Australia 10:40 because you got radical Islam in Australia as well. 10:42 Oh, no, this is a worldwide problem. 10:44 There's no question. 10:45 Yeah, I was just down there and it's there too. 10:50 It's a relatively calm place but no, you know, the-- 10:53 And maybe some of our viewers don't know 10:56 the Islamic world just like the Christian world is global 10:58 and down in near Australia is Indonesia, 11:01 that's the largest Muslim country in the world, 11:03 200 million people, 95% are Muslim. 11:07 It's the largest far and away. 11:10 No, it's everywhere and you know, 11:12 I need to add a point, 11:14 religious conflict is not confined just to Islam 11:16 but as far as terrorism 11:18 and a challenge to the global order, 11:22 Islam is front and center at the moment. 11:23 Here's a challenge for a Christian today, 11:25 a true follower of Jesus Christ in the Bible. 11:28 If you side with the King of the South 11:32 you're in a problem 11:33 but if you side with King of the North 11:34 you're in a problem. 11:35 So you can get upset with ISIS 11:37 and the spread of radical Islam 11:39 but to come after them with fire with fire, 11:42 fighting fire with fire, 11:44 you are now no longer 11:46 God's people caught in the middle, 11:48 you're are on side with King of the North 11:49 and the King of the North 11:50 goes down to destruction as well 11:53 and we have to be really careful. 11:54 As soon as we're willing to put away 11:58 the rule of love and freedom 12:01 we end up siding with the North or the South 12:03 and it ends up religious liberty-- 12:05 Certainly the threats of throwing more 12:08 gasoline on the fire, isn't it? 12:09 Yeah. 12:11 But we perhaps have reached a point 12:13 where that it can be slowed but there's certainly 12:18 extrovert nature to this complex-- 12:19 So the danger for somebody like you and I 12:21 who think of ourselves as Christians 12:23 and I really believe I am-- 12:24 Oh, certainly. 12:25 Yeah. 12:27 Is that we side with the King of the North 12:30 to militarily or materially fight against the South. 12:34 I remember what Jesus said, 12:35 "My kingdom is not of this earth." 12:37 Right. 12:38 So what we need, 12:40 what would be the perfect solution 12:42 is a no-enforcement by force 12:49 but open dialogue and now just think, 12:52 if all the sudden there were no restriction 12:54 against people who change their faith 12:56 and it was open dialogue-- 12:57 Now you're getting close to what I was saying. 12:58 That could end it. 13:00 This is just getting interesting. 13:01 We'll be back after a break. 13:03 Stay with us 13:04 and we'll be back to discuss solutions. |
Revised 2015-07-23