Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:00:21.72\00:00:24.42
I want you to know
the name of this program,
00:00:24.45\00:00:25.97
remember it and watch it.
00:00:26.00\00:00:27.17
This is a
program that bringing you
00:00:27.20\00:00:28.40
up-to-date news,
views, discussion
00:00:28.43\00:00:30.73
and analysis of
religious liberty developments
00:00:30.76\00:00:33.67
around the world
00:00:33.70\00:00:35.73
and often particularly
in the United States.
00:00:35.76\00:00:37.04
My name, Lincoln Steed,
editor of Liberty Magazine.
00:00:37.07\00:00:40.73
And my guest on this
program is Tim Roosenberg,
00:00:40.76\00:00:43.52
author, lecturer and expander
on prophecy in particulars
00:00:43.55\00:00:48.64
that relates to some
in time apocalyptic events
00:00:48.67\00:00:52.37
that mention Islam--
00:00:52.40\00:00:54.06
Yes.
00:00:54.09\00:00:55.15
And Christianity
under the Roman Catholicism.
00:00:55.18\00:00:59.92
I think the most topical thing
00:00:59.95\00:01:01.07
to jump into with the discussion
00:01:01.10\00:01:02.94
in this program is ISIL
00:01:02.97\00:01:05.88
as the President
Obama, President Obama
00:01:05.91\00:01:09.13
always is at great
pains to call it ISIL not ISIS
00:01:09.16\00:01:12.16
and some of the other acronyms
00:01:12.19\00:01:13.79
which stands for
Islamic State of Iraq and...
00:01:13.82\00:01:18.44
The Levant. The Levant.
00:01:18.47\00:01:20.36
What's the Levant?
00:01:20.39\00:01:22.08
That includes
Bagdad-- I mean, Iraq.
00:01:22.11\00:01:24.84
It includes Syria,
Jordan, Egypt, Israel, Lebanon,
00:01:24.87\00:01:31.42
it's that whole area.
00:01:31.45\00:01:32.48
It's that whole area
00:01:32.51\00:01:33.55
on the side of the Mediterranean
00:01:33.58\00:01:35.16
between turkey and Egypt.
00:01:35.19\00:01:38.41
Yeah.
00:01:38.44\00:01:39.72
Up to and
possibly including Egypt.
00:01:39.75\00:01:41.58
I was hoping you'd
do what I sometimes do,
00:01:41.61\00:01:44.12
reaching to the
Bible for a term.
00:01:44.15\00:01:46.39
There's a phrase there
to describe it in the Bible.
00:01:46.42\00:01:49.94
It talks about
the Glorious Land.
00:01:49.97\00:01:51.61
Oh.
00:01:51.64\00:01:52.70
Well, I-- when I
see Glorious Land
00:01:52.73\00:01:54.48
I actually think more of
the land of Israel myself.
00:01:54.51\00:01:57.27
I think the whole-- it
comprises the whole thing
00:01:57.30\00:01:59.80
but it certainly--
00:01:59.83\00:02:02.35
Israel is within that sweat
00:02:02.38\00:02:04.00
so we know that
ISIS has more the names.
00:02:04.03\00:02:08.16
They are claming
00:02:08.19\00:02:11.95
and intend to
take that whole swathe
00:02:11.98\00:02:14.81
that includes Israel.
00:02:14.84\00:02:16.13
Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
right after declaring caliphate
00:02:16.16\00:02:20.84
made it clear that they were
going after Rome and the globe.
00:02:20.87\00:02:25.42
So--
00:02:25.45\00:02:26.49
And they said, Washington?
00:02:26.52\00:02:28.89
Oh, yeah, Washington
is part of the globe.
00:02:28.92\00:02:30.87
His two targets in
that initial statement
00:02:30.90\00:02:33.74
were Rome and the globe.
00:02:33.77\00:02:36.42
And so yeah, they
don't go by ISIS themselves,
00:02:36.45\00:02:42.16
they actually
go by Islamic State
00:02:42.19\00:02:43.71
because their
intent is worldwide,
00:02:43.74\00:02:45.81
not just the Levant.
00:02:45.84\00:02:47.42
The president
interestingly using the Levant
00:02:47.45\00:02:51.60
is trying to say
there a regional threat
00:02:51.63\00:02:55.25
not to just to Iraq and Syria
but they are regional threat.
00:02:55.28\00:02:57.91
Yes.
00:02:57.94\00:02:58.99
But he's enlarged it--
00:02:59.02\00:03:00.21
using that enlarges
beyond Iraq and Syria.
00:03:00.24\00:03:02.88
Yeah, but it's
still that region,
00:03:02.91\00:03:04.81
they want to be
considered as a global threat.
00:03:04.84\00:03:07.96
Well, the whole
definition of the caliphate
00:03:07.99\00:03:11.31
is the ruler of
the Islamic world.
00:03:11.34\00:03:14.09
Yes.
00:03:14.12\00:03:15.15
And people weren't listening
very clearly to Osama bin Laden
00:03:15.18\00:03:19.72
but that was his goal
00:03:19.75\00:03:21.40
to reinstitute
the global caliphate.
00:03:21.43\00:03:24.63
They think that it would
take quit a bit longer thought
00:03:24.66\00:03:27.01
Probably, yeah.
00:03:27.04\00:03:28.07
And Islamic State
got little anxious.
00:03:28.10\00:03:29.68
Yeah.
00:03:29.71\00:03:30.77
But the idea of
the Islamic State
00:03:30.80\00:03:32.61
is under the Khalifah ruler
00:03:32.64\00:03:34.73
and you know the Khalifs
go back to Mohammed's era.
00:03:34.76\00:03:40.67
Any country that is all Islamic
of course is automatically in,
00:03:40.70\00:03:44.74
any majority Islamic country
is to be instantly convert--
00:03:44.77\00:03:49.18
you know, I mean,
made one of the states.
00:03:49.21\00:03:52.85
And then they are also
to work very vigorously
00:03:52.88\00:03:55.03
where there is any
sort of an Islamic presence
00:03:55.06\00:03:57.49
to purgative other
forces and bring it into the--
00:03:57.52\00:04:01.29
So it's an
aggressive expanding concept
00:04:01.32\00:04:05.48
of the whole Omar or
the peoples of the faith.
00:04:05.51\00:04:11.88
Now--
00:04:11.91\00:04:13.34
And the last time it existed
00:04:13.37\00:04:14.68
was under the
Ottoman Turkish rule.
00:04:14.71\00:04:19.45
The Atlantic Monthly had
a really interesting article
00:04:19.48\00:04:22.00
about what does
ISIS really want.
00:04:22.03\00:04:24.02
And it's about their--
their own apocalyptic viewpoint
00:04:24.05\00:04:28.62
where their
intention is to draw the world
00:04:28.65\00:04:31.97
into a conflict in Syria
00:04:32.00\00:04:34.47
where they believe they will
be reduced to 5,000 fighters
00:04:34.50\00:04:38.82
and then God will defend them
00:04:38.85\00:04:41.45
and they will
then conquer the world.
00:04:41.48\00:04:43.68
And so all these atrocities,
00:04:43.71\00:04:45.96
all the things that they do
00:04:45.99\00:04:48.23
are intended to bring a response
00:04:48.26\00:04:51.05
and provoke an attack
against them in Syria.
00:04:51.08\00:04:55.24
And so that is their whole goal.
00:04:55.27\00:04:59.00
So if you ignore them they
will continue to create havoc.
00:04:59.03\00:05:05.09
And by the way
they are killing Jews,
00:05:05.12\00:05:08.53
Christians and Muslims
who disagree with them.
00:05:08.56\00:05:10.92
It's havoc for
everybody who disagrees.
00:05:10.95\00:05:12.94
Yeah, anybody that
doesn't' acknowledge
00:05:12.97\00:05:15.55
the one faith, of course.
00:05:15.58\00:05:16.88
Yeah.
00:05:16.91\00:05:17.95
And so they are
creating that havoc.
00:05:17.98\00:05:20.52
So if leave them alone
00:05:20.55\00:05:21.59
the havoc will
only continue to spread
00:05:21.62\00:05:23.82
but if you counter-attack
in the way they want you to do
00:05:23.85\00:05:26.50
which is troops on the ground
then you played right into it.
00:05:26.53\00:05:31.36
So you got the
governments in the region
00:05:31.39\00:05:33.28
trying to just
do it by air-power
00:05:33.31\00:05:36.73
without troops on the ground,
but that so far hasn't worked.
00:05:36.76\00:05:40.68
As a matter of fact you have--
you're different Al-Shabaab,
00:05:40.71\00:05:46.50
Boko Haram, all
these other groups
00:05:46.53\00:05:49.77
have now sworn
allegiance to the Islamic State.
00:05:49.80\00:05:54.06
Not all of them
but many of them.
00:05:54.09\00:05:55.18
Well, yeah.
00:05:55.21\00:05:56.24
You've got
something like 40 of them--
00:05:56.27\00:05:57.39
That's many, many groups, yeah.
00:05:57.42\00:05:59.35
That have sworn
allegiance to them,
00:05:59.38\00:06:00.44
so you get--
00:06:00.47\00:06:01.50
you're getting
radical Muslims all over--
00:06:01.53\00:06:04.70
Well, there's a global
steering of radical Islam.
00:06:04.73\00:06:07.43
That's what's going
on and yeah, bombing also
00:06:07.46\00:06:12.05
I think is only going to
be railing point for them.
00:06:12.08\00:06:15.66
I personally--
00:06:15.69\00:06:16.72
At this point I agree--
00:06:16.75\00:06:17.83
Well, the whole world,
00:06:17.86\00:06:18.92
you know,
religion is the aspect here
00:06:18.95\00:06:20.41
but just looking at it
as a political challenge
00:06:20.44\00:06:25.12
for peace and stability.
00:06:25.15\00:06:27.41
I think that best
left alone even thought
00:06:27.44\00:06:29.69
there's really no
good choice at this point
00:06:29.72\00:06:33.00
it remains to be same
00:06:33.03\00:06:34.35
how it would work
out sociologically.
00:06:34.38\00:06:36.27
We may be over the tipping point
00:06:36.30\00:06:37.66
where there's so much agitation
within Muslim communities
00:06:37.69\00:06:40.94
that recruiting
will continue un-abided
00:06:40.97\00:06:43.23
but I think
playing into their hands
00:06:43.26\00:06:44.95
by attacking them only
increases their strength.
00:06:44.98\00:06:47.81
So what do you do about--
00:06:47.84\00:06:48.95
And the US particularly should
learn this from the Vietnam War
00:06:48.98\00:06:52.51
which had nothing much
to do with the religion
00:06:52.54\00:06:54.79
but we used to have body counts
00:06:54.82\00:06:56.89
and yet the army was--
00:06:56.92\00:06:59.05
the enemies were
getting more and more over time
00:06:59.08\00:07:01.07
because you actually
recruiting by creating
00:07:01.10\00:07:06.77
or forting their
generally held aims.
00:07:06.80\00:07:11.95
From a political viewpoint
there are no good options.
00:07:11.98\00:07:14.62
No, it's a
dangerous situations and--
00:07:14.65\00:07:17.33
And because most politicians
00:07:17.36\00:07:19.90
don't' really
understand the spiritual--
00:07:19.93\00:07:21.89
Absolutely.
00:07:21.92\00:07:22.99
They end up
creating more problems
00:07:23.02\00:07:25.18
whenever they try
a political solution.
00:07:25.21\00:07:27.40
Yeah.
00:07:27.43\00:07:28.69
But you know, I would
hate to be a civil leader today
00:07:28.72\00:07:31.66
because there are
too many good options--
00:07:31.69\00:07:34.33
Okay--
00:07:34.36\00:07:35.43
And while on a
religions liberty front
00:07:35.46\00:07:37.96
we need to avoid--
00:07:37.99\00:07:40.24
well, we certainly should never
encourage religious persecution
00:07:40.27\00:07:44.18
or exclusion or whatever.
00:07:44.21\00:07:47.63
I think the
civil-- I am trying to--
00:07:47.66\00:07:52.18
I am minding my words
00:07:52.21\00:07:53.27
because I can get
in trouble with this.
00:07:53.30\00:07:56.45
What the civil
governments have done
00:07:56.48\00:07:58.40
and particularly in the
US in sort of giving way
00:07:58.43\00:08:01.67
to rather outrageous demands
00:08:01.70\00:08:04.57
from religious group
that have a political agenda,
00:08:04.60\00:08:07.58
I don't think
that's what their will.
00:08:07.61\00:08:09.20
And so they-- maybe I
should put I this way,
00:08:09.23\00:08:14.31
I think any civil government
00:08:14.34\00:08:18.07
when it's dealing
with the religious group
00:08:18.10\00:08:19.79
should demand that they behave
00:08:19.82\00:08:21.49
according to the
civil norms of the country.
00:08:21.52\00:08:24.01
Right.
00:08:24.04\00:08:25.09
And we're a little
afraid at the moment
00:08:25.12\00:08:28.03
and we're giving
way to the demands
00:08:28.06\00:08:29.66
even for Sharia law
in certain communities,
00:08:29.69\00:08:33.07
we're allowing I think
some talk that's not too good,
00:08:33.10\00:08:38.45
not so much the US
but I know in England.
00:08:38.48\00:08:40.44
I saw a video in a mosque
where they were actually--
00:08:40.47\00:08:43.89
was filmed surreptitiously.
00:08:43.92\00:08:45.59
Well, they were telling people
how to lay barrage balloons
00:08:45.62\00:08:48.34
and set grenades for
approaching airliners.
00:08:48.37\00:08:52.04
You know, seditious behavior
00:08:52.07\00:08:54.68
by any religious
group is exactly that.
00:08:54.71\00:08:57.41
It just happens to be happening
in the religious context
00:08:57.44\00:09:00.17
but it shouldn't be
allowed by the state.
00:09:00.20\00:09:02.69
And I am afraid
that the Western powers
00:09:02.72\00:09:06.37
are going to overreach
when they get to the point
00:09:06.40\00:09:09.22
where they're troubled by
00:09:09.25\00:09:10.46
some of this religious agitation
00:09:10.49\00:09:13.55
rather than
directing countering it,
00:09:13.58\00:09:16.64
they're just going to
restrict religions behavior.
00:09:16.67\00:09:19.47
That wouldn't be
in anyone's interest.
00:09:19.50\00:09:21.15
That's what happened in
the time of the Crusades,
00:09:21.18\00:09:23.12
the Ottoman's the reformation
and the prophecy said
00:09:23.15\00:09:25.36
it's coming
around one more time--
00:09:25.39\00:09:26.68
So I am going to agree with you.
00:09:26.71\00:09:27.85
Well, yes.
00:09:27.88\00:09:28.96
I can't disagree
with that either.
00:09:28.99\00:09:30.14
You're picking it
on the other side,
00:09:30.17\00:09:31.46
picking it
without understanding,
00:09:31.49\00:09:34.27
without explaining prophecy.
00:09:34.30\00:09:36.15
Well, that's bother
prophetic and historic.
00:09:36.18\00:09:38.10
Yeah.
00:09:38.13\00:09:39.23
So we had a very
interesting point but--
00:09:39.26\00:09:41.96
So you see ISIL then as
almost unstoppable or what?
00:09:41.99\00:09:47.23
What should--
00:09:47.26\00:09:48.44
What I see is--
00:09:48.47\00:09:49.50
The nations do and
what can we do individually?
00:09:49.53\00:09:52.16
What is see is
nearly unstoppable,
00:09:52.19\00:09:54.88
is that there's
a holy war coming.
00:09:54.91\00:09:59.35
What can we do?
00:09:59.38\00:10:01.17
Number one,
00:10:01.20\00:10:02.73
we ought to be
learning to follow scripture.
00:10:02.76\00:10:06.63
The religious liberty aspect,
00:10:06.66\00:10:08.87
if I am not willing to let a
Muslim have religious liberty
00:10:08.90\00:10:12.41
I won't have it either.
00:10:12.44\00:10:15.71
I don't' have to
agree with people
00:10:15.74\00:10:17.86
to support their liberties.
00:10:17.89\00:10:19.05
Right.
00:10:19.08\00:10:20.13
What's happening is
the King of the North,
00:10:20.16\00:10:21.82
King of the South have
both restricted liberties.
00:10:21.85\00:10:24.88
If you do not do that
00:10:24.91\00:10:26.56
you're gonna get
caught in the middle,
00:10:26.59\00:10:28.68
it's been through history.
00:10:28.71\00:10:30.83
And so-- and by the
way the safest place
00:10:30.86\00:10:33.58
in this prophecy of
Daniel 11 is in the middle.
00:10:33.61\00:10:35.89
Oh, I thought--
00:10:35.92\00:10:36.95
It's in the middle.
00:10:36.98\00:10:38.01
No, it's-- Oh, you
can't even hide in Australia
00:10:38.04\00:10:40.88
because you got radical
Islam in Australia as well.
00:10:40.91\00:10:42.81
Oh, no, this is a
worldwide problem.
00:10:42.84\00:10:44.52
There's no question.
00:10:44.55\00:10:45.77
Yeah, I was just down
there and it's there too.
00:10:45.80\00:10:50.33
It's a relatively calm
place but no, you know, the--
00:10:50.36\00:10:53.36
And maybe some of
our viewers don't know
00:10:53.39\00:10:56.00
the Islamic world just like
the Christian world is global
00:10:56.03\00:10:58.85
and down in near
Australia is Indonesia,
00:10:58.88\00:11:01.51
that's the largest
Muslim country in the world,
00:11:01.54\00:11:03.39
200 million
people, 95% are Muslim.
00:11:03.42\00:11:07.05
It's the largest far and away.
00:11:07.08\00:11:10.18
No, it's
everywhere and you know,
00:11:10.21\00:11:12.33
I need to add a point,
00:11:12.36\00:11:13.98
religious conflict is
not confined just to Islam
00:11:14.01\00:11:16.59
but as far as terrorism
00:11:16.62\00:11:18.67
and a challenge
to the global order,
00:11:18.70\00:11:22.15
Islam is front and
center at the moment.
00:11:22.18\00:11:23.75
Here's a challenge
for a Christian today,
00:11:23.78\00:11:25.79
a true follower of
Jesus Christ in the Bible.
00:11:25.82\00:11:28.94
If you side with
the King of the South
00:11:28.97\00:11:32.20
you're in a problem
00:11:32.23\00:11:33.27
but if you side
with King of the North
00:11:33.30\00:11:34.34
you're in a problem.
00:11:34.37\00:11:35.41
So you can get upset with ISIS
00:11:35.44\00:11:37.24
and the spread of radical Islam
00:11:37.27\00:11:39.25
but to come after
them with fire with fire,
00:11:39.28\00:11:42.46
fighting fire with fire,
00:11:42.49\00:11:44.05
you are now no longer
00:11:44.08\00:11:46.90
God's people
caught in the middle,
00:11:46.93\00:11:48.02
you're are on side
with King of the North
00:11:48.05\00:11:49.67
and the King of the North
00:11:49.70\00:11:50.81
goes down to destruction as well
00:11:50.84\00:11:53.07
and we have to
be really careful.
00:11:53.10\00:11:54.93
As soon as we're
willing to put away
00:11:54.96\00:11:58.85
the rule of love and freedom
00:11:58.88\00:12:01.39
we end up siding with
the North or the South
00:12:01.42\00:12:03.71
and it ends up
religious liberty--
00:12:03.74\00:12:05.76
Certainly the
threats of throwing more
00:12:05.79\00:12:08.51
gasoline on the fire, isn't it?
00:12:08.54\00:12:09.86
Yeah.
00:12:09.89\00:12:11.76
But we perhaps
have reached a point
00:12:11.80\00:12:13.83
where that it can be
slowed but there's certainly
00:12:13.86\00:12:18.12
extrovert nature
to this complex--
00:12:18.15\00:12:19.81
So the danger for
somebody like you and I
00:12:19.84\00:12:21.79
who think of
ourselves as Christians
00:12:21.82\00:12:23.28
and I really believe I am--
00:12:23.31\00:12:24.54
Oh, certainly.
00:12:24.57\00:12:25.81
Yeah.
00:12:25.84\00:12:27.52
Is that we side with
the King of the North
00:12:27.55\00:12:30.18
to militarily or materially
fight against the South.
00:12:30.21\00:12:34.15
I remember what Jesus said,
00:12:34.18\00:12:35.28
"My kingdom is
not of this earth."
00:12:35.31\00:12:36.97
Right.
00:12:37.00\00:12:38.03
So what we need,
00:12:38.06\00:12:40.67
what would be
the perfect solution
00:12:40.70\00:12:42.74
is a no-enforcement by force
00:12:42.77\00:12:49.62
but open dialogue
and now just think,
00:12:49.65\00:12:52.48
if all the sudden
there were no restriction
00:12:52.51\00:12:54.51
against people
who change their faith
00:12:54.54\00:12:55.98
and it was open dialogue--
00:12:56.01\00:12:57.07
Now you're getting
close to what I was saying.
00:12:57.10\00:12:58.50
That could end it.
00:12:58.53\00:13:00.84
This is just
getting interesting.
00:13:00.87\00:13:01.93
We'll be back after a break.
00:13:01.96\00:13:03.28
Stay with us
00:13:03.31\00:13:04.35
and we'll be back
to discuss solutions.
00:13:04.38\00:13:05.51