Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Tim Roosenburg
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000286A
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00:22 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:24 This is a program that brings you up-to-date news 00:26 and views and information 00:28 on religious liberty developments around the world, 00:32 and in particular, in the United States. 00:34 My name is Lincoln Steed, editor of Liberty Magazine. 00:38 And my guest on this program is Tim Roosenberg. 00:42 Very well traveled, much known author and lecturer. 00:46 And for the last few years, particularly on Islam, 00:50 Christianity and prophecies. 00:52 Is that a good summation? 00:53 It's a very good summation. 00:54 Without remembering the exact title. 00:57 And on another program, 00:59 we've already discussed a little 01:00 how you got into it, 01:02 but just tell me again, make it clear, 01:03 what was the trigger that really got you onto this topic? 01:08 I know you're a church pastor for many years. 01:10 The trigger was a series of email exchange and I-- 01:15 somebody was trying to tell me that Islam and Christianity 01:17 were going to unite and I said, yeah, 01:20 they're like polar opposites and like north and south 01:23 and then I found that same idea in Daniel 11. 01:27 Now this was before 9/11 and that I didn't know 01:29 until you mentioned that. 01:31 Yeah, I really began to expand on it after 9/11 01:33 because it did then really got my attention. 01:37 And, you know-- I know you travel a lot, 01:42 probably every weekend at least, right? 01:44 Yeah. 01:45 You got any idea how many people 01:48 have heard your lectures? 01:50 Not just on television, 01:52 'cause that goes off the charts. 01:54 Yeah. I have no idea. 01:56 I do 15 ten-day seminars a year plus another 20 02:01 or more weekend kind of seminars. 02:06 Some years I've done over 50 presentations 02:08 in 50 different venues. 02:10 Well, yeah, it's lot of talking, 02:11 lot of talking. 02:12 Yeah, my longest do was about 8.5 hours in one day. 02:16 Yeah, now what this tells me 02:19 and I'm sure you've picked it up. 02:20 There's a huge interest in this. 02:22 Yes. 02:24 9/11 I think is for most people, 02:26 you got in a little before, 02:27 but for most people certainly in the west 02:29 and absolutely in the United States, 02:31 it was all after 9/11. 02:34 There's a classic quote that I've mentioned 02:36 even on this program before 02:37 but I do think it's very accurate. 02:38 Mark Twain, great cynic, said once that 02:43 foreign wars were God's way 02:46 of teaching geography to Americans. 02:49 And 9/11 was certainly God's way of presenting Islam 02:54 to the Christian western-- 02:56 And remain west to the Middle East. 02:58 We should have been aware of it 02:59 before and I would have hoped 03:01 that all people of faith were at least passingly familiar 03:04 with the tenets of other faiths, 03:07 but that's not so. 03:08 And it does trouble me, 03:10 and I'd like your feedback on this. 03:12 as I watch more and more discussions, 03:14 not just about Al Qaeda or ISIL 03:17 and the manifestations of radical Islam 03:19 but often you see on television, 03:21 discussions of aspects of the faith 03:23 and it troubles me that great misinformation 03:26 that's floating around. 03:28 One side you'll have the TV interviewer 03:30 who clearly knows nothing, and the other side you have 03:33 perhaps even an imam who was-- 03:37 for better or worse as even Christians are inclined 03:40 to do on occasions, selectively choosing 03:42 what he says about his holy book 03:46 or the Hadees or other aspects. 03:48 And the person is ignorant on the other side, 03:50 and so the end result is very little truth is spread 03:53 and maybe even a misapprehension is created. 03:56 And when you're talking to Christians 03:58 which is their true version of Christianity. 04:00 Well, that's right. 04:02 On many levels we've already been through that. 04:04 Yeah. 04:05 And even within our church as other churches, 04:08 but within our church often vigorous debate, 04:10 which version of the Bible you quoting from? 04:12 You know, split the hair on this phrase, 04:15 you know, comma makes all the difference. 04:18 You were talking about an interest, 04:19 I was wearing a shirt that says Islam 04:21 and Christianity prophecy seminars at an airport 04:25 and which I say I do because I'm going fishing, 04:27 because people come up to me and start conversations 04:29 and I get to talk about Jesus. 04:32 But this guy walks up to me, 04:34 well, actually I walked into a waiting area 04:36 and in gate area and he says, here, 04:39 have a seat beside me. 04:40 And I said no, that's okay. 04:41 I'm about to catch a long flight, 04:43 I just soon stand. 04:44 He said, no, I've been looking at your shirt 04:46 for the last half hour, please sit down. 04:48 And so I sat down, it was pretty direct invitation. 04:51 And he said, now I know they can't be 04:54 combining with each other 04:55 because they're like north and south. 04:57 And I started to laugh. He says, what's so funny? 05:00 Because it's the same approach. 05:01 King of the north, the king of the south. 05:03 And it's the king of the north, king of the south. 05:04 I said, well, that's what the Bible calls them. 05:05 And I opened my Bible to Daniel 11. 05:08 Now this guy was an oilfield worker from Saudi Arabia, 05:11 in the United States on vacation. 05:14 And he swore every sentence he had just about, 05:16 he was definitely not a practicing Christian. 05:19 He gets his cell phone out 05:20 and was taking pictures of the Bible verses 05:22 I was showing him from Daniel 11. 05:24 And he was gonna go home and study the Bible 05:26 because this now got his interest 05:29 because it's today's world. 05:31 And that was a good response. 05:33 I think more people need to read their Bibles. 05:35 Now your lectures are very good 05:36 but if people only listen to you 05:38 and went away absolutely convinced 05:39 and was all contained from that, 05:41 would still think that will be a problem. 05:43 Yes, I agree. 05:44 I'm sure you're trying to turn people back to study... 05:47 If people aren't studying their Bible... 05:48 Yeah. 05:50 And I wish more Muslims would do that, 05:54 you know, in very observant Muslim countries 05:57 there's more of a tradition of the memorizing it 06:00 but, you know, I wrote memorization of the type 06:02 that I've seen and I remember in Pakistan 06:05 and I have said it on this program before. 06:07 I saw a whole room of maybe a 100 little boys, 06:10 all of them under about 10, with a guy upfront, 06:13 reading out aloud to the crowd and then blah, blah, blah... 06:15 all day or at least a good part of the day. 06:18 I'm not sure that 06:20 they're really comprehending those words. 06:22 But for someone to read it at their leisure, look it 06:25 and digest it and compare it, 06:27 there's a need for that in Islam 06:28 just as surely is Christianity 06:29 and they might see some incongruities there 06:34 and they certainly might find if they looked as we should 06:37 at least be passingly familiar with the Quran, 06:40 they might find some truths in the Bible. 06:42 I was in a hotel in California 06:45 and there was a Muslim at the desk, night clerk, 06:49 and I'd go in for different reasons 06:51 while I was several nights I was there, 06:52 and second night he says, may I ask you some questions? 06:55 'Cause he saw my shirt and I was doing daily seminars 06:59 in different parts of the state around there 07:01 in this one room I was staying in. 07:03 So he came in, he said, I've been studying the Quran, 07:05 I've studied Christianity, he says I'm giving up on both. 07:09 And I said, I understand. 07:11 I said because you're seeing stuff that just doesn't match. 07:14 He said yeah. 07:15 and I said, well, the majority of Christians 07:17 and majority of Muslims, 07:18 both are using force, fear and anger, 07:20 do it other way or else. 07:21 He said, you know, and he got right into it. 07:23 I gave him my book. 07:25 The next night I walk in there 07:27 and he was halfway through it already. 07:28 And this guy was really getting excited 07:31 because he was starting to realize 07:33 that they were actually true people 07:35 of the book in the world today. 07:36 Very few. Yeah. 07:37 And they're coming from different places 07:40 but there are some out there 07:42 that are really following the Bible. 07:44 And there are people like him looking for that. 07:45 Yeah. 07:47 And ironically I've got stronger, 07:49 stronger views on this. 07:51 Ironically in the age of the internet, 07:53 people have access to stuff. 07:54 I heard it the other day... I hope I'm correct. 07:58 But I know that they general-- 08:00 I heard a statistic that the average young person 08:02 only stays, I think, it was 20 seconds on a website. 08:08 I mean, what sort of a knowledge 08:09 are people getting if they're like fly, 08:11 or like bees buzzing... 08:14 Any book whether it's a book on history 08:17 or particularly a book of theology, 08:19 you've got to sort of read it and digest it and then-- 08:23 I believe there's a crying need 08:25 for people to study these sacred works. 08:29 Or else you're left with the word 08:31 of the controlling authority, whether it's the pope, 08:34 you know, waving a censor over, you know, perhaps idol worship 08:40 or whether it's a mullah intoning, 08:42 you know, go out and burn down this embassy 08:45 because they've insulted the prophet. 08:47 There's an awful lot of-- 08:49 I'm thinking obedience certainly in the Islamic world 08:53 that I'd like to think, even in the Quran 08:55 if they read it, there are balancing statements 08:58 about charity and love and so on. 09:00 But why don't young people in school like history? 09:04 Because it doesn't matter to them anyway. 09:06 That's what they think. 09:07 They're being told that unfortunately. 09:09 And why don't people really hear about scripture? 09:10 Because it's just a bunch of old stuff 09:12 that doesn't matter. 09:13 And what I find exciting is, and why I do what I do-- 09:17 It's true, you're contemporizing this 09:18 because it's showing that 09:19 today's headlines are protected. 09:21 It's already there and I'm sharing 09:23 history and prophecy together, 09:25 2,500 years of accuracy in the single prophecy 09:29 and it's just unfolding in the third 09:31 and final round as it declared. 09:33 And people are-- that combination of history 09:36 and scripture is coming alive for them like 09:38 that's never happened to them before. 09:40 Now I'm positive you're doing a wonderful thing 09:43 and the results are showing it. 09:46 There is huge interest. 09:47 And I don't mind if somebody disagrees with me. 09:50 I tell my audiences you don't have 09:51 to be agreed with me to be my friend 09:53 because I'm trying to get people to question in study. 09:56 Well, you know, I might not agree with every point 09:58 but I think what you're on to in the larger scale 10:00 is Islam as a post Christian phase 10:06 is clearly mentioned in the Bible. 10:09 You know, we're both Seventh-day Adventists 10:11 and the pioneers of the Seventh-day Adventist church 10:14 had very strong views on this 10:16 and they saw in the persecution, 10:21 not the persecution, in the invasion of Europe, 10:24 it's more than that input, invasion of Europe by Islam, 10:27 they saw a fulfillment and as I remember 10:29 it was the Sixth Trumpet of Revelation 9. 10:32 Yeah, fifth and sixth. 10:34 You had the Saracens, the Arabs, 10:35 then you have the Turks. 10:37 And what did I just share? Those two-- 10:39 They were the events preceding of course 10:42 you can't beat the reformation 10:44 and then they also got themselves 10:45 into a little trouble, then trying to project forward 10:48 on the Ottoman Turkish Empire and they misinterpreted it, 10:53 thought that it would-- yes. 10:55 A lot of the evangelists, 10:56 they thought that it wasn't going to fall 10:58 until the final apocalyptic developments. 11:01 In reality the Ottoman Turkish Empire is long gone. 11:05 By the way I'm sure-- 11:07 Turk again would like to argue with you on that, 11:08 he'd like to bring up that. 11:09 Well, it's not the Ottoman Turkish Empire, 11:11 it's the modern state of Turkey 11:12 but he is and lot of people haven't noticed, 11:15 they're heading back toward fundamentalism. 11:17 Yes. 11:19 But what a lot of people don't realize that 11:21 for hundreds of years, many hundreds of years, 11:25 Baghdad was the center of the Islamic world. 11:28 Yes. 11:29 That was the head of the caliphate, 11:32 that ISIL misguidedly are trying to re-establish. 11:36 After their first 150 years, 11:38 they moved the caliphate back there 11:39 and that's when it began 11:41 to kind of pull back a little bit, 11:43 but it was definitely-- 11:44 Yes, it's true, was quite as militaristic as that stage. 11:47 Yeah. Yeah. 11:49 So... 11:51 Oh, we're very close to have break. 11:55 But after the break, let's-- 11:58 why don't you give a very quick praising 11:59 of the central prophetic point 12:01 that you're trying to make in your lectures? 12:04 I'd happily do that. 12:06 I know you take hours and hours to do it, 12:07 but see if we can do it in a couple of minutes. 12:08 We'll be back after a short break. 12:11 Stay with us for this interesting discussion 12:13 of not just prophecy but of current history 12:18 in the clash of religions. |
Revised 2015-08-27