Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is a program that
brings you up-to-date news
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and views and information
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on religious liberty
developments around the world,
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and in particular,
in the United States.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
editor of Liberty Magazine.
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And my guest on this
program is Tim Roosenberg.
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Very well traveled, much
known author and lecturer.
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And for the last few
years, particularly on Islam,
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Christianity and prophecies.
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Is that a good summation?
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It's a very good summation.
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Without
remembering the exact title.
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And on another program,
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we've already discussed a little
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how you got into it,
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but just tell me
again, make it clear,
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what was the trigger that
really got you onto this topic?
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I know you're a
church pastor for many years.
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The trigger was a series
of email exchange and I--
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somebody was trying to tell
me that Islam and Christianity
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were going to
unite and I said, yeah,
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they're like polar opposites
and like north and south
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and then I found that
same idea in Daniel 11.
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Now this was before
9/11 and that I didn't know
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until you mentioned that.
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Yeah, I really began
to expand on it after 9/11
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because it did then
really got my attention.
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And, you know-- I
know you travel a lot,
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probably every
weekend at least, right?
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Yeah.
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You got any idea how many people
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have heard your lectures?
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Not just on television,
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'cause that goes off the charts.
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Yeah. I have no idea.
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I do 15 ten-day
seminars a year plus another 20
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or more weekend
kind of seminars.
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Some years I've done
over 50 presentations
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in 50 different venues.
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Well, yeah, it's lot of talking,
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lot of talking.
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Yeah, my longest do was
about 8.5 hours in one day.
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Yeah, now what this tells me
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and I'm sure
you've picked it up.
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There's a huge interest in this.
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Yes.
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9/11 I think is for most people,
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you got in a little before,
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but for most people
certainly in the west
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and absolutely in
the United States,
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it was all after 9/11.
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There's a classic
quote that I've mentioned
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even on this program before
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but I do think
it's very accurate.
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Mark Twain, great
cynic, said once that
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foreign wars were God's way
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of teaching
geography to Americans.
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And 9/11 was certainly
God's way of presenting Islam
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to the Christian western--
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And remain west
to the Middle East.
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We should have been aware of it
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before and I would have hoped
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that all people of faith
were at least passingly familiar
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with the tenets of other faiths,
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but that's not so.
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And it does trouble me,
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and I'd like
your feedback on this.
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as I watch more
and more discussions,
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not just about Al Qaeda or ISIL
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and the
manifestations of radical Islam
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but often you see on television,
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discussions of
aspects of the faith
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and it troubles me
that great misinformation
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that's floating around.
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One side you'll
have the TV interviewer
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who clearly knows nothing,
and the other side you have
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perhaps even an imam who was--
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for better or worse as
even Christians are inclined
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to do on occasions,
selectively choosing
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what he says about his holy book
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or the Hadees or other aspects.
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And the person is
ignorant on the other side,
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and so the end result is
very little truth is spread
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and maybe even a
misapprehension is created.
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And when you're
talking to Christians
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which is their true
version of Christianity.
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Well, that's right.
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On many levels we've
already been through that.
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Yeah.
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And even within our
church as other churches,
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but within our church
often vigorous debate,
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which version of the
Bible you quoting from?
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You know, split the
hair on this phrase,
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you know, comma
makes all the difference.
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You were talking
about an interest,
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I was wearing a
shirt that says Islam
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and Christianity
prophecy seminars at an airport
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and which I say I do
because I'm going fishing,
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because people come up to
me and start conversations
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and I get to talk about Jesus.
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But this guy walks up to me,
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well, actually I
walked into a waiting area
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and in gate area
and he says, here,
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have a seat beside me.
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And I said no, that's okay.
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I'm about to
catch a long flight,
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I just soon stand.
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He said, no, I've
been looking at your shirt
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for the last half
hour, please sit down.
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And so I sat down, it
was pretty direct invitation.
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And he said, now
I know they can't be
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combining with each other
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because they're
like north and south.
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And I started to laugh.
He says, what's so funny?
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Because it's the same approach.
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King of the north,
the king of the south.
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And it's the king of the
north, king of the south.
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I said, well, that's
what the Bible calls them.
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And I opened my
Bible to Daniel 11.
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Now this guy was an oilfield
worker from Saudi Arabia,
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in the United
States on vacation.
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And he swore every
sentence he had just about,
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he was definitely not
a practicing Christian.
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He gets his cell phone out
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and was taking
pictures of the Bible verses
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I was showing
him from Daniel 11.
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And he was gonna go
home and study the Bible
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because this
now got his interest
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because it's today's world.
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And that was a good response.
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I think more people
need to read their Bibles.
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Now your lectures are very good
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but if people only listen to you
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and went away
absolutely convinced
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and was all contained from that,
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would still think
that will be a problem.
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Yes, I agree.
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I'm sure you're trying to
turn people back to study...
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If people aren't
studying their Bible...
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Yeah.
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And I wish more
Muslims would do that,
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you know, in very
observant Muslim countries
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there's more of a
tradition of the memorizing it
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but, you know, I wrote
memorization of the type
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that I've seen and
I remember in Pakistan
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and I have said it
on this program before.
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I saw a whole room of
maybe a 100 little boys,
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all of them under
about 10, with a guy upfront,
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reading out aloud to the crowd
and then blah, blah, blah...
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all day or at least
a good part of the day.
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I'm not sure that
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they're really
comprehending those words.
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But for someone to read
it at their leisure, look it
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and digest it and compare it,
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there's a need for that in Islam
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just as surely is Christianity
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and they might see
some incongruities there
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and they certainly might
find if they looked as we should
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at least be passingly
familiar with the Quran,
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they might find
some truths in the Bible.
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I was in a hotel in California
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and there was a Muslim
at the desk, night clerk,
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and I'd go in
for different reasons
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while I was
several nights I was there,
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and second night he says,
may I ask you some questions?
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'Cause he saw my shirt
and I was doing daily seminars
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in different parts of
the state around there
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in this one room
I was staying in.
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So he came in, he said,
I've been studying the Quran,
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I've studied Christianity,
he says I'm giving up on both.
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And I said, I understand.
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I said because you're seeing
stuff that just doesn't match.
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He said yeah.
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and I said, well, the
majority of Christians
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and majority of Muslims,
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both are using
force, fear and anger,
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do it other way or else.
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He said, you know,
and he got right into it.
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I gave him my book.
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The next night I walk in there
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and he was halfway
through it already.
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And this guy was
really getting excited
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because he was
starting to realize
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that they were
actually true people
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of the book in the world today.
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Very few. Yeah.
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And they're coming
from different places
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but there are some out there
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that are really
following the Bible.
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And there are people
like him looking for that.
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Yeah.
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And ironically
I've got stronger,
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stronger views on this.
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Ironically in the
age of the internet,
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people have access to stuff.
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I heard it the other
day... I hope I'm correct.
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But I know that they general--
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I heard a statistic
that the average young person
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only stays, I think, it
was 20 seconds on a website.
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I mean, what sort of a knowledge
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are people getting
if they're like fly,
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or like bees buzzing...
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Any book whether
it's a book on history
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or particularly
a book of theology,
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you've got to sort of read
it and digest it and then--
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I believe there's a crying need
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for people to
study these sacred works.
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Or else you're
left with the word
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of the controlling authority,
whether it's the pope,
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you know, waving a censor over,
you know, perhaps idol worship
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or whether it's
a mullah intoning,
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you know, go out and
burn down this embassy
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because they've
insulted the prophet.
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There's an awful lot of--
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I'm thinking obedience
certainly in the Islamic world
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that I'd like to
think, even in the Quran
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if they read it, there
are balancing statements
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about charity
and love and so on.
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But why don't young
people in school like history?
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Because it doesn't
matter to them anyway.
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That's what they think.
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They're being told
that unfortunately.
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And why don't people
really hear about scripture?
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Because it's just
a bunch of old stuff
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that doesn't matter.
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And what I find exciting
is, and why I do what I do--
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It's true, you're
contemporizing this
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because it's showing that
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today's headlines are protected.
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It's already
there and I'm sharing
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history and prophecy together,
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2,500 years of
accuracy in the single prophecy
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and it's just
unfolding in the third
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and final round as it declared.
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And people are-- that
combination of history
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and scripture is
coming alive for them like
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that's never
happened to them before.
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Now I'm positive
you're doing a wonderful thing
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and the results are showing it.
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There is huge interest.
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And I don't mind if
somebody disagrees with me.
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I tell my
audiences you don't have
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to be agreed with
me to be my friend
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because I'm trying to get
people to question in study.
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Well, you know, I might
not agree with every point
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but I think what you're
on to in the larger scale
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is Islam as a
post Christian phase
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is clearly
mentioned in the Bible.
00:10:06.20\00:10:09.67
You know, we're both
Seventh-day Adventists
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and the pioneers of the
Seventh-day Adventist church
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had very strong views on this
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and they saw in the persecution,
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not the persecution,
in the invasion of Europe,
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it's more than that input,
invasion of Europe by Islam,
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they saw a
fulfillment and as I remember
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it was the Sixth
Trumpet of Revelation 9.
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Yeah, fifth and sixth.
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You had the Saracens, the Arabs,
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then you have the Turks.
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And what did I
just share? Those two--
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They were the
events preceding of course
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you can't beat the reformation
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and then they
also got themselves
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into a little trouble,
then trying to project forward
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on the Ottoman Turkish Empire
and they misinterpreted it,
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thought that it would-- yes.
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A lot of the evangelists,
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they thought that
it wasn't going to fall
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until the final
apocalyptic developments.
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In reality the Ottoman
Turkish Empire is long gone.
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By the way I'm sure--
00:11:05.29\00:11:07.03
Turk again would like
to argue with you on that,
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he'd like to bring up that.
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Well, it's not the
Ottoman Turkish Empire,
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it's the modern state of Turkey
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but he is and lot of
people haven't noticed,
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they're heading back
toward fundamentalism.
00:11:15.74\00:11:17.77
Yes.
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But what a lot of
people don't realize that
00:11:19.17\00:11:21.61
for hundreds of years,
many hundreds of years,
00:11:21.64\00:11:25.45
Baghdad was the
center of the Islamic world.
00:11:25.48\00:11:28.38
Yes.
00:11:28.42\00:11:29.75
That was the
head of the caliphate,
00:11:29.78\00:11:32.49
that ISIL misguidedly
are trying to re-establish.
00:11:32.52\00:11:36.56
After their first 150 years,
00:11:36.59\00:11:38.43
they moved the
caliphate back there
00:11:38.46\00:11:39.79
and that's when it began
00:11:39.83\00:11:41.16
to kind of pull
back a little bit,
00:11:41.20\00:11:43.37
but it was definitely--
00:11:43.40\00:11:44.73
Yes, it's true, was quite
as militaristic as that stage.
00:11:44.77\00:11:47.67
Yeah. Yeah.
00:11:47.70\00:11:49.04
So...
00:11:49.07\00:11:51.41
Oh, we're very
close to have break.
00:11:51.44\00:11:55.24
But after the break, let's--
00:11:55.28\00:11:58.08
why don't you give
a very quick praising
00:11:58.11\00:11:59.88
of the central prophetic point
00:11:59.91\00:12:01.68
that you're trying to
make in your lectures?
00:12:01.72\00:12:04.65
I'd happily do that.
00:12:04.69\00:12:06.02
I know you take
hours and hours to do it,
00:12:06.05\00:12:07.39
but see if we can do
it in a couple of minutes.
00:12:07.42\00:12:08.76
We'll be back
after a short break.
00:12:08.79\00:12:11.46
Stay with us for this
interesting discussion
00:12:11.49\00:12:13.83
of not just prophecy
but of current history
00:12:13.86\00:12:18.57
in the clash of religions.
00:12:18.60\00:12:21.07