Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Greg Hamilton
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000280B
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00:04 Welcome back to 'The Liberty Insider.'
00:06 Before the break, with my just-- 00:08 My guest Greg Hamilton, not my just. 00:11 I think that one was a joke. 00:13 We were talking about this quite new Pope, 00:17 Francis and his Jesuit connections, 00:19 well, his membership. 00:21 He is the member of the Jesuit wood order 00:23 which is a president. 00:24 No other Pope in history but you are damned playing 00:28 a little at least as far as 00:30 some protestants might understand Jesuitism. 00:32 Yeah, I don't want us taken on a bandwagon 00:34 and create all kinds of conspiracy theories 00:36 just because he is the first Jesuit Pope 00:39 because he's done more than any Pope 00:40 that I've seen to disown 00:43 the Jesuit order in many respects. 00:46 Practically speaking, he's never publicly disavowed them. 00:50 I mean, we wouldn't expect to say that. 00:52 He did, he did in Argentina 00:54 when he was archbishop and Cardinal. 00:56 He was, he had-- 00:57 Yes, and then you invoked the conflict 01:02 that the John Paul had with the Jesuits 01:04 and the liberals-- 01:05 There is no question that there was a seat changed 01:08 and how the Holy sea so the Jesuit infiltration 01:13 into a liberation movements all around the world. 01:17 He joined hands with John Paul the second 01:18 in making war on liberation theology. 01:21 Which he needed to as a-- 01:22 And the Jesuit order. 01:24 And by the way, it wasn't so much 01:25 against the liberation theology. 01:27 This Pope, his very pro-liberation theology 01:30 was the mixture, the element of infusing communism 01:35 into Latin American society 01:37 and even governments in supporting those 01:40 that both Pope John Paul the second 01:41 and his war against communism in Eastern Europe 01:45 and Russia or the Soviet Union, 01:47 brought it to Latin America. 01:49 Had a very particular view that coming from Paul 01:50 and into the communist rule. 01:52 And he joined hands with the Pope, 01:54 Pope John Paul the second in that making war 01:57 against the Jesuit order, his own order. 01:59 He could have done much else 02:01 because at that time John Paul the second made it clear. 02:05 It was either for the director general 02:07 or it was either, in fact he replaced the director, 02:11 made swear loyalty to him under the papacy 02:14 and anyone in the order had to do the same. 02:16 Well, do you remember- 02:18 If he didn't, if he acted contrary he would be out. 02:21 You remember Archbishop Romero that was assassinated? 02:23 Yes, in Philippines. 02:24 Yeah, and from that this whole, how should I put it? 02:32 The liberation theology movements 02:34 started to gradually ceased and fall away. 02:38 And yet, this Pope, Pope Francis 02:42 is making him a saint, very quietly. 02:45 But nevertheless it just demonstrates 02:47 that his very pro-liberation theology 02:50 just not the communist elements that were involved. 02:53 So in this sense you could say Jesuit, all right. 02:56 So I will grant you that much. 02:59 But beyond that I just don't see that. 03:01 I see him not so much as a Jesuit 03:04 as someone who is just being himself, 03:07 charismatic self being a world leader. 03:08 I don't think there is anything deeply sinister. 03:11 My significance is these are difficult times 03:15 for states and religious past. 03:18 And in reaching for Jesuit I think the Cardinal showed, 03:22 they thought that it was time for an extraordinary person 03:25 linked to a knowledgeable infrastructure 03:28 because the Jesuits have, 03:30 that's the whole role to advance the cause of Rome 03:33 whether it was whispering in the ear of some-- 03:39 King up in Thailand 03:41 or somewhere in China, you know. 03:42 In fact, it's interesting to me that 03:44 the current director general 03:46 of the Jesuit order is the mission-- 03:48 previous missionary to Japan. 03:50 So it's still sort of this persuasion in alien cultures. 03:55 And I think just like his predecessor, Benedict, 03:58 he sees the modern western culture is alien to religion. 04:02 The secularism is the great enemy. 04:04 And that's the water that Jesuits can swim 04:07 in pretty well, right? 04:09 Yeah, it's interesting because he was 04:12 he almost became Pope before Benedict. 04:17 He lost by from what I heard 04:18 in the College of the Cardinals by five votes. 04:22 And Benedict became Pope and then the Benedict retired. 04:24 Stunned the world and then emerges Pope Francis the first. 04:29 So he was really a favorite all along. 04:33 Which I find interesting and Cardinal Dolan, 04:35 Timothy Dolan, has made-- 04:39 It was my pick to be Pope. 04:40 I thought he might have made it. 04:42 You mean your prediction, yes. 04:43 Yeah, so I-- 04:45 Don't remind me of my prophetic failings. 04:46 Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of people 04:49 who thought that a charismatic American Pope. 04:52 Well, this would be the perfect opportunity 04:53 to bring the American-Catholic constituency 04:57 truly under the Papal control. 04:59 The Cardinal Dolan was too conservative 05:01 for at least the current set of College of Cardinals 05:04 which is interesting because Pope 05:06 John Paul the second and then later Pope Benedict 05:09 stacked the College of Cardinals 05:11 with conservatives, okay. 05:13 But they were old conservatives 05:15 and they after 85 you can no longer serve 05:18 on the College of the Cardinals. 05:20 That's why I thought of Dolan 05:21 because he's the young conservative. 05:23 He's charismatic. 05:24 He doesn't come across his conservative 05:26 but I know he is deeply conservative-- 05:27 So this Pope has brought in a bunch 05:30 of new Cardinals into the College of the Cardinals 05:32 who were younger and far more liberal. 05:35 So he's totally transforming 05:37 the Catholic church into an inter-faith left, 05:40 political left world body. 05:45 And I find that fascinating 05:46 because with the emergence of President Obama 05:50 and his alliance with inter-faith the left 05:53 and political movements 05:55 clearly a form of supports democratic socialism 06:00 which is very much of a European phenomenon, 06:02 not an American phenomenon per se. 06:06 And yes, Pope, I mean, President Obama 06:09 only has two more or a year and a half left as President. 06:13 But it'd be interesting to see 06:14 which way the presidency goes. 06:16 I really think that it will tilt 06:18 to the right very strongly. 06:20 I don't think Hillary Clinton will be elected. 06:22 I believe there will be 06:24 somebody on the Republican side. 06:25 To after the two terms of Bill Clinton. 06:30 Yes. 06:31 Even in the impeachment in the second 06:33 it's was just a bottle-- 06:34 bottled antagonism from the right 06:36 and once they came in, they came in with a rush. 06:38 I think we'll have the same after two Obama terms. 06:40 I believe that we'll have another Republican. 06:43 And I believe that the court would be stacked 06:44 even more with hard right conservatives 06:47 and I think that that's very prophetic 06:49 in terms of the direction this country is going. 06:51 Which is interesting because when you look 06:52 at the counter balance with Pope Francis. 06:57 Francis seems to bridge the gap 07:01 between liberals and conservatives. 07:02 He's loved by both in the Catholic church-- 07:04 Yes, he doesn't come across 07:05 as an overly doctrinaire person, does he? 07:07 He definitely leans left. It's obvious. 07:10 You know, I've confessed to my 07:12 one time prophetic predilections 07:14 and I failed in that one. 07:18 You wonder it has it anything on Pope Francis 07:20 when he address the joint session 07:22 of congress later in 2015 September I think. 07:27 Which will be the first time 07:28 that Pope has ever addressed congress 07:30 in the history of the United States. 07:32 That is just incredible. That is an amazing thing. 07:35 No, it's not a constitutional crisis by any means. 07:37 It fits within the norms 07:39 but it's outside of historical precedent. 07:42 And as I said before given that this is a church, 07:45 it's also a state. 07:47 It's sort of problematic it seems to me 07:50 before the US Congress with its constitutional mandate 07:55 for separation of churches-- 07:56 Catholic insiders are saying 07:57 that he's trying to write an encyclical 08:00 on climate change before he comes to congress. 08:03 Now I don't put any significance to that, 08:05 to be honest with you. 08:06 I think that's a rabbit trail from bigger issues. 08:09 I really believe that 08:10 when he meets with the president, 08:11 when he meets with congressmen, 08:13 I really think that the main agenda is going to ISIS. 08:17 It's going to be the Middle East. 08:18 It's gonna be the persecution 08:19 of Christians in the Middle East. 08:21 It's going to be the status of Israel. 08:22 It's going to be negotiations 08:25 with Iran over a nuclear treaty. 08:27 It's gonna be all those key big issues, 08:31 more so than how the banking world should be 08:35 or the world economy should be arranged. 08:36 I'll give you my prediction. Go ahead. 08:38 And I don't mind being wrong but I think so. 08:42 I've noticed that only a few days 08:44 before that-that address. 08:45 He's speaking at a huge rally 08:48 in the United States on the family. 08:50 Is that in Philadelphia or New York? 08:52 I think it's Philadelphia. Okay, yeah. 08:55 I would think consistent with not only that event 08:58 but what he said recently. 08:59 He's going to float the idea of the family rest day. 09:03 Huh, that's interesting. 09:05 Which is not a legislative initiative 09:06 but it's a dropping an idea into the society. 09:10 I haven't seen him doing that in Europe yet. 09:12 Yes. Really? 09:15 When did he do that? Several times. 09:16 Different times and in fact, it's I think 09:19 still before the European parliament. 09:22 I thought they were going to enact it but they-- 09:24 Yeah, but that was initiated way back in Benedict's time. 09:28 I know. Right. 09:30 But he's been speaking it up very strongly. 09:32 And there's a lot to recommend it. 09:34 It's just that we can see where that, 09:38 you know, could lead to in exclusive 09:40 sort of a religious identity on a Sunday 09:44 of rest rather than recognized in several religious churches. 09:48 Which is interesting because in the Philippines 09:49 after the Charlie Hebdo attacks or the magazine in Paris 09:53 by those Islamic extremists gunmen. 09:56 He said, you know, we must not do things 10:01 to enrage other religions. 10:03 I agree with him. 10:04 The problem is go down that slippery slope of, 10:07 that moral slippery slope 10:08 and donate here to true guarantees 10:11 to freedom of speech and freedom religion, 10:13 that's problematic. 10:15 He then made a statement as soon as 10:16 he got back to the Vatican saying that 10:19 evangelism or proselytisation must end. 10:21 We must stop competing with one another 10:24 in terms of who is the true faith. 10:26 Which I thought was interesting. 10:28 I noticed that and there's a little conflict 10:30 between that and some of statements. 10:31 But I felt for a long time we're heading toward 10:34 a new carving up the world 10:35 according to religious identities 10:37 and I do see Rome doing that. 10:40 And of course that means projecting against 10:42 Islam and some places 10:43 because Christians being persecuted there. 10:45 But I think it's more of protect 10:47 our religious identity. 10:49 We don't want you converting ours, 10:50 we won't convert yours. 10:52 But who wins in that clash of civilizations? 10:54 No, there's no real winner. 10:56 Right. 10:57 In fact, in the end they find ecumenical unity. 11:01 They find ecumenical ground to come together. 11:04 So where do you think we-- 11:07 Where do we leave it with this Pope? 11:10 This Pope, Pope Francis the first is extremely popular. 11:14 He is very charismatic. 11:16 He is well beloved by both 11:18 Catholics, Protestants, Muslims. 11:21 If anybody can pull off world peace, 11:24 it would be this Pope. 11:26 Prophecy I think is fulfilling. 11:32 Music has the ability to relate to your emotions. 11:35 Every time I hear the battle hymn of the Republic, 11:38 I'm taken by the militarism implicit in it. 11:40 When it speaks about that mighty swift sword, 11:44 I know that this is not a figure of speech. 11:47 Also, when we sing the song, "Onward Christian soldiers," 11:52 it's just as well that the word says 11:54 marching as to war not literal war 11:57 because the terminology is extremely literal. 12:00 When we talk about the Jesuit order though, 12:03 it's worth remembering 12:04 that he has an element of Christianity. 12:07 That an order that was formed directly 12:10 as a militaristic order. 12:13 It was formed by an ex-soldier 12:15 in response to what was seen 12:16 as a mortal threat against the church, the reformation. 12:20 And it was designed to use whatever means was necessary 12:23 to turn back that attack on the mother church. 12:27 It cannot be immaterial in our day. 12:29 But for the first time a member of that order 12:32 is now Pope Francis ruling over that same church. 12:37 And regardless of how user-friendly 12:39 he might be, we have to take seriously 12:42 the charter of such an organization that he 12:45 and it will do whatever necessary 12:47 to win the day for the magisterium, 12:50 for the mother church, 12:52 for the one that claims the keys of St. Peter. 12:56 For Liberty Insider I am Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2015-09-10