Welcome back to
'The Liberty Insider.'
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Before the break, with my just--
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My guest Greg
Hamilton, not my just.
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I think that one was a joke.
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We were talking
about this quite new Pope,
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Francis and his
Jesuit connections,
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well, his membership.
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He is the member of
the Jesuit wood order
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which is a president.
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No other Pope in history
but you are damned playing
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a little at least as far as
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some protestants
might understand Jesuitism.
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Yeah, I don't want
us taken on a bandwagon
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and create all kinds
of conspiracy theories
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just because he is
the first Jesuit Pope
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because he's done
more than any Pope
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that I've seen to disown
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the Jesuit order
in many respects.
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Practically speaking, he's
never publicly disavowed them.
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I mean, we
wouldn't expect to say that.
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He did, he did in Argentina
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when he was
archbishop and Cardinal.
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He was, he had--
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Yes, and then you
invoked the conflict
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that the John Paul
had with the Jesuits
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and the liberals--
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There is no question
that there was a seat changed
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and how the Holy sea
so the Jesuit infiltration
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into a liberation
movements all around the world.
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He joined hands
with John Paul the second
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in making war on
liberation theology.
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Which he needed to as a--
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And the Jesuit order.
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And by the way,
it wasn't so much
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against the liberation theology.
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This Pope, his very
pro-liberation theology
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was the mixture, the
element of infusing communism
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into Latin American society
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and even
governments in supporting those
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that both Pope
John Paul the second
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and his war against
communism in Eastern Europe
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and Russia or the Soviet Union,
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brought it to Latin America.
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Had a very particular
view that coming from Paul
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and into the communist rule.
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And he joined
hands with the Pope,
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Pope John Paul the
second in that making war
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against the Jesuit
order, his own order.
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He could have done much else
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because at that time John
Paul the second made it clear.
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It was either for
the director general
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or it was either, in
fact he replaced the director,
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made swear loyalty
to him under the papacy
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and anyone in the
order had to do the same.
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Well, do you remember-
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If he didn't, if he
acted contrary he would be out.
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You remember Archbishop
Romero that was assassinated?
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Yes, in Philippines.
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Yeah, and from that this
whole, how should I put it?
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The liberation
theology movements
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started to gradually
ceased and fall away.
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And yet, this Pope, Pope Francis
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is making him a
saint, very quietly.
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But nevertheless
it just demonstrates
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that his very
pro-liberation theology
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just not the communist
elements that were involved.
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So in this sense you
could say Jesuit, all right.
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So I will grant you that much.
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But beyond that I
just don't see that.
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I see him not
so much as a Jesuit
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as someone who is
just being himself,
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charismatic self
being a world leader.
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I don't think there is
anything deeply sinister.
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My significance is
these are difficult times
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for states and religious past.
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And in reaching for Jesuit
I think the Cardinal showed,
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they thought that it was
time for an extraordinary person
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linked to a
knowledgeable infrastructure
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because the Jesuits have,
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that's the whole role to
advance the cause of Rome
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whether it was
whispering in the ear of some--
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King up in Thailand
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or somewhere in China, you know.
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In fact, it's
interesting to me that
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the current director general
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of the Jesuit
order is the mission--
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previous missionary to Japan.
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So it's still sort of this
persuasion in alien cultures.
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And I think just like
his predecessor, Benedict,
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he sees the modern western
culture is alien to religion.
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The secularism
is the great enemy.
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And that's the water
that Jesuits can swim
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in pretty well, right?
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Yeah, it's
interesting because he was
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he almost became
Pope before Benedict.
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He lost by from what I heard
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in the College of the
Cardinals by five votes.
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And Benedict became Pope
and then the Benedict retired.
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Stunned the world and then
emerges Pope Francis the first.
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So he was really a
favorite all along.
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Which I find
interesting and Cardinal Dolan,
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Timothy Dolan, has made--
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It was my pick to be Pope.
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I thought he might have made it.
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You mean your prediction, yes.
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Yeah, so I--
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Don't remind me of
my prophetic failings.
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Yeah, yeah,
there's a lot of people
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who thought that a
charismatic American Pope.
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Well, this would be
the perfect opportunity
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to bring the
American-Catholic constituency
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truly under the Papal control.
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The Cardinal Dolan
was too conservative
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for at least the current
set of College of Cardinals
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which is
interesting because Pope
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John Paul the second
and then later Pope Benedict
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stacked the College of Cardinals
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with conservatives, okay.
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But they were old conservatives
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and they after 85
you can no longer serve
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on the College of the Cardinals.
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That's why I thought of Dolan
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because he's the
young conservative.
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He's charismatic.
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He doesn't come
across his conservative
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but I know he is
deeply conservative--
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So this Pope has
brought in a bunch
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of new Cardinals into
the College of the Cardinals
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who were younger
and far more liberal.
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So he's totally transforming
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the Catholic church
into an inter-faith left,
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political left world body.
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And I find that fascinating
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because with the
emergence of President Obama
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and his alliance
with inter-faith the left
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and political movements
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clearly a form of
supports democratic socialism
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which is very much of
a European phenomenon,
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not an American
phenomenon per se.
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And yes, Pope, I
mean, President Obama
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only has two more or a year
and a half left as President.
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But it'd be interesting to see
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which way the presidency goes.
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I really think that it will tilt
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to the right very strongly.
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I don't think Hillary
Clinton will be elected.
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I believe there will be
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somebody on the Republican side.
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To after the two
terms of Bill Clinton.
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Yes.
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Even in the
impeachment in the second
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it's was just a bottle--
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bottled
antagonism from the right
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and once they came in,
they came in with a rush.
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I think we'll have the
same after two Obama terms.
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I believe that we'll
have another Republican.
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And I believe that
the court would be stacked
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even more with
hard right conservatives
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and I think that
that's very prophetic
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in terms of the
direction this country is going.
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Which is interesting
because when you look
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at the counter
balance with Pope Francis.
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Francis seems to bridge the gap
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between liberals
and conservatives.
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He's loved by both
in the Catholic church--
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Yes, he doesn't come across
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as an overly
doctrinaire person, does he?
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He definitely
leans left. It's obvious.
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You know, I've confessed to my
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one time prophetic predilections
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and I failed in that one.
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You wonder it has it
anything on Pope Francis
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when he address
the joint session
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of congress later in
2015 September I think.
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Which will be the first time
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that Pope has
ever addressed congress
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in the history of
the United States.
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That is just incredible.
That is an amazing thing.
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No, it's not a constitutional
crisis by any means.
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It fits within the norms
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but it's outside of
historical precedent.
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And as I said before
given that this is a church,
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it's also a state.
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It's sort of
problematic it seems to me
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before the US Congress
with its constitutional mandate
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for separation of churches--
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Catholic insiders are saying
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that he's trying
to write an encyclical
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on climate change
before he comes to congress.
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Now I don't put any
significance to that,
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to be honest with you.
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I think that's a rabbit
trail from bigger issues.
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I really believe that
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when he meets
with the president,
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when he meets with congressmen,
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I really think that the
main agenda is going to ISIS.
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It's going to
be the Middle East.
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It's gonna be the persecution
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of Christians
in the Middle East.
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It's going to be
the status of Israel.
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It's going to be negotiations
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with Iran over a nuclear treaty.
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It's gonna be all
those key big issues,
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more so than how the
banking world should be
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or the world
economy should be arranged.
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I'll give you my
prediction. Go ahead.
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And I don't mind
being wrong but I think so.
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I've noticed
that only a few days
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before that-that address.
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He's speaking at a huge rally
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in the United
States on the family.
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Is that in
Philadelphia or New York?
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I think it's
Philadelphia. Okay, yeah.
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I would think consistent
with not only that event
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but what he said recently.
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He's going to float the
idea of the family rest day.
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Huh, that's interesting.
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Which is not a
legislative initiative
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but it's a dropping
an idea into the society.
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I haven't seen him
doing that in Europe yet.
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Yes. Really?
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When did he do
that? Several times.
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Different times and
in fact, it's I think
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still before the
European parliament.
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I thought they were
going to enact it but they--
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Yeah, but that was initiated
way back in Benedict's time.
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I know. Right.
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But he's been
speaking it up very strongly.
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And there's a
lot to recommend it.
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It's just that we
can see where that,
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you know, could
lead to in exclusive
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sort of a religious
identity on a Sunday
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of rest rather than recognized
in several religious churches.
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Which is interesting
because in the Philippines
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after the Charlie Hebdo
attacks or the magazine in Paris
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by those Islamic
extremists gunmen.
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He said, you know,
we must not do things
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to enrage other religions.
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I agree with him.
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The problem is go down
that slippery slope of,
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that moral slippery slope
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and donate here
to true guarantees
00:10:08.87\00:10:11.17
to freedom of speech
and freedom religion,
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that's problematic.
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He then made a
statement as soon as
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he got back to the
Vatican saying that
00:10:16.71\00:10:19.51
evangelism or
proselytisation must end.
00:10:19.55\00:10:21.65
We must stop
competing with one another
00:10:21.68\00:10:24.45
in terms of who
is the true faith.
00:10:24.49\00:10:26.39
Which I thought was interesting.
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I noticed that and
there's a little conflict
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between that and
some of statements.
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But I felt for a long
time we're heading toward
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a new carving up the world
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according to
religious identities
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and I do see Rome doing that.
00:10:37.43\00:10:40.47
And of course that
means projecting against
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Islam and some places
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because Christians
being persecuted there.
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But I think it's more of protect
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our religious identity.
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We don't want
you converting ours,
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we won't convert yours.
00:10:50.48\00:10:51.98
But who wins in that
clash of civilizations?
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No, there's no real winner.
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Right.
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In fact, in the end
they find ecumenical unity.
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They find ecumenical
ground to come together.
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So where do you think we--
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Where do we leave
it with this Pope?
00:11:07.66\00:11:10.07
This Pope, Pope Francis
the first is extremely popular.
00:11:10.10\00:11:14.84
He is very charismatic.
00:11:14.87\00:11:16.54
He is well beloved by both
00:11:16.57\00:11:18.27
Catholics, Protestants, Muslims.
00:11:18.31\00:11:21.01
If anybody can
pull off world peace,
00:11:21.04\00:11:24.55
it would be this Pope.
00:11:24.58\00:11:26.28
Prophecy I think is fulfilling.
00:11:26.31\00:11:32.32
Music has the ability
to relate to your emotions.
00:11:32.35\00:11:35.32
Every time I hear the
battle hymn of the Republic,
00:11:35.36\00:11:38.06
I'm taken by the
militarism implicit in it.
00:11:38.09\00:11:40.90
When it speaks about
that mighty swift sword,
00:11:40.93\00:11:44.03
I know that this is
not a figure of speech.
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Also, when we sing the song,
"Onward Christian soldiers,"
00:11:47.17\00:11:51.97
it's just as well
that the word says
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marching as to
war not literal war
00:11:54.48\00:11:57.28
because the terminology
is extremely literal.
00:11:57.31\00:12:00.82
When we talk about
the Jesuit order though,
00:12:00.85\00:12:02.98
it's worth remembering
00:12:03.02\00:12:04.55
that he has an
element of Christianity.
00:12:04.59\00:12:07.16
That an order that
was formed directly
00:12:07.19\00:12:10.09
as a militaristic order.
00:12:10.13\00:12:13.29
It was formed by an ex-soldier
00:12:13.33\00:12:15.06
in response to what was seen
00:12:15.10\00:12:16.56
as a mortal threat against
the church, the reformation.
00:12:16.60\00:12:20.60
And it was designed to use
whatever means was necessary
00:12:20.64\00:12:23.94
to turn back that
attack on the mother church.
00:12:23.97\00:12:27.01
It cannot be
immaterial in our day.
00:12:27.04\00:12:29.64
But for the first
time a member of that order
00:12:29.68\00:12:32.85
is now Pope Francis
ruling over that same church.
00:12:32.88\00:12:37.69
And regardless
of how user-friendly
00:12:37.72\00:12:39.62
he might be, we
have to take seriously
00:12:39.65\00:12:42.39
the charter of such
an organization that he
00:12:42.42\00:12:45.39
and it will do
whatever necessary
00:12:45.43\00:12:47.53
to win the day
for the magisterium,
00:12:47.56\00:12:50.47
for the mother church,
00:12:50.50\00:12:52.10
for the one that
claims the keys of St. Peter.
00:12:52.13\00:12:56.20
For Liberty
Insider I am Lincoln Steed.
00:12:56.24\00:13:02.51